2015 Proposed Bow River Changes

[monger]

Thanks Brent. The bridge is a good marker and the number of redds downstream will probably not be that large. This is a good plan if implemented well

[FraserN]

I agree. Closing in October down to the deerfoot extender gives the best of both worlds. It gives needed protection to the spawning Browns and the majority of their redds at a key time of year. Yet it will allow a portion of the fishery to remain open during a very productive month. Some of the best rainbows I have caught in the river over many years were taken in October. I cannot imagine being unable to fish for them at this time of year.

[bcubed]

I am encouraged by the people who are having a positive response to this. Considering I floated the idea (though to a longer time extent) a few years back and was pretty well NIMBY'd out of the place. Maybe a few more of us started to feel a bit of a fishery switch in the city last year. It sure wasn't the Bow of old.

[toolman]

I think these proposed closures to protect redds and spwawning/staging area's, really appeals to most anglers, but is it really based on science? This topic has been researched many times and the science I have seen reveals that catch and release angling has very little impact on the reproductive cycle.

The section of river now being considered for closure, from the Deerfoot Extender upriver, has many spawning areas that have been fished over for decades, yet historically, the Brown trout populations on this stretch have been prolific. Actually incredible numbers, as in as good as almost any river on the planet.

Personally, I feel there are other conservation issues that need to be addressed on the Bow, such as adequate flow rates and riperean habitat alteration/destruction as human developement continues. Really loving the rip rap banks. Can't have enough of those eh. Golf courses and new housing/condo developements along the flood plain are a higher priority I guess.

Just my thoughts.....

[Villageidiot]

The browns took a major hit with the sapro outbreak followed by the flood. They need every chance we can give the few that are left. Regardless whether the science says catch and release angling's impact is negligible, the fish need some uninterrupted reproductive cycles. However, i agree, it certainly is not the only thing plaguing the browns. Dont think you could find a person in the community with real experience that would say the brown trout fishing/populations have been prolific since the fall of 2013, and the 2014 flood. It is a step in the right direction.

[toolman]

A step in the right direction? I realize people have good intentions and mean well, but If the science says it will do little to help the Brown trout population recover, then how is that a step in the right direction?

Other than make a a few anglers "feel good" I guess. Sad when we make fisheries management decisions based on people's feelings and personal "ethics" and opinions, rather than using good data and science to support regulations.

 

A similar discussion took place 15 years ago over the Rainbows staging at the mouth of the Highwood in March. There were many wanting the river closed, convinced that it was hurting the fish. They were wrong. An exhaustive scientific study proved it.

My thoughs on the whole concerning the Bow river Brown trout demise, is that they may have hit a peak cycle and then conditions changed and the population collapsed. A natural cycle that sometimes occurs when one species peaks, nature steps in and balances it out. Don't worry, the Brown trout population will eventually recover.

 

Funny that I don't see much concern for the demise of our Bow river Rocky Mountain Whitefish.

Guess they are not so important to fly fishers so, who cares eh....

[bcubed]

There is no information on the Bow river for the damage that indicates one way or the other for Brown trout. So, in the lack of good science, we should leave it unchanged? How well has that worked out previously? The fact of the matter is, there is no science on the Bow. Do we really want to wait another 10 years to get that science to find out we were too late?

 

You'll notice that the Proposed reg also includes a zero fish limit, including whitefish, so yes they're being noticed.

[toolman]

Yes the zero limit for all species is a great reg. change. I totally support it and it's sad that we waited so long to implement the change.

As for the science concerning the impacts of catch and release angling on Brown trout spawning area's, do a bit of searching and you will find that these studies were conducted on many U.S. streams and rivers. All drew the same conclusion. The impacts were neglible across the board. It's an old discussion with new anglers.

[eagleflyfisher]

What does that mean exactly , hit a peak cycle then collapsed.

They populated well,survived,thrived, the river was bursting with them so Mother Nature killed them off with sapro ?

I saw them checking on the whitefish this fall.

I wasnt aware there were in peril, doesn't mean I don't care just didn't know.

If laying off the brown trout for 2 months to let them reproduce helps them make a come back then I'm all for it.

What science is ther that says leaving them alone won't help.

I was there for the highwood stats saying little or no effect from catch & release but the rainbows were never in trouble from

decreased numbers.

So fill me in Greg, I don't think pegging people with " so they can feel good about themselves " isnt really accurate.

BTW is saw smaller schools of whites with Sapro 2 years ago, is this a case of that peak cycle theory ?

 

 

[bcubed]

Yes the zero limit for all species is a great reg. change. I totally support it and it's sad that we waited so long to implement the change.

As for the science concerning the impacts of catch and release angling on Brown trout spawning area's, do a bit of searching and you will find that these studies were conducted on many U.S. streams and rivers. All drew the same conclusion. The impacts were neglible across the board. It's an old discussion with new anglers.

So, I guess the science regarding the impact of C&R on fish just doesn't count? Where is the exhaustive study on whitefish?

 

I see the only issue with this reg, is that it'll keep the 'old anglers' away from picking on the old fish... i don't see how you can ever see this reg as something that will damage the fishery

[toolman]

Yes I think it is likely that the Whitefish also went through their natural cycle and then conditions changed. Poachers whacking it hard may have contributed somewhat as well. Natural cycles are common in nature with all species of life. For example, Canadian Snowshoe hares run at about a 40 year cycle with peaks followed by complete collapses in the populations across the country. Canadian lynx that rely on them for food also follow their cycle with peaks and collapses in population. Fisheries are no different. From the fish survey done last August, it appears that the river is fine, minus some Brown trout.

They will come back eventually when the conditions they require to thrive are right. No need for panic, only patience.

 

If the science showed, even anecdotally, that a river closure for two months would contribute in some measurably signigicant way to the Brown trout recovery, I would totally support it. Personally, I would never target a spawning area while fishing and I mostly avoid wading in the fall. But that's my own personal ethics. I do however try and promote awareness in the fall to fellow anglers about watching out for reds when they wade. As do many fine sportsman on the water.

 

I guess we are having that townhall meeting right now.... hahaha

[bcubed]

So I guess we should reopen all the rainbow trout streams, since the science is so conclusive

[toolman]

So I guess we should reopen all the rainbow trout streams, since the science is so conclusive

 

Yes. that's exactly what I said. Open all Highwood tributary streams that are 8' wide, to fish Rainbows on the redds,,,,, hahaha

All kidding aside, it is good to see that we have people engaged and concerned for our rivers.

 

Sapro.... http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/wildlife-diseases/documents/SaprolegniosisFactSheet-MAR-2010.pdf

 

SRD info. http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/fisheries-management/prairies-area-fisheries-management/lower-bow-river-sport-angling-regulation-review.aspx

[cgyguy]

This is great news in my books! While I don't have a whole lot of knowledge in the matter, and will not pretend to do so, my observation is that it can't hurt. I too, would like to see it only extender to the Deerfoot Bridge at Highway 2 South. Anyone have any idea on when these changes would be rolled out, or is this the consultation phase?

 

thanks!

Cgyguy

[FraserN]

I think it is a very positive step with 0 retention on the whitefish. In the NW stretch the whitefish numbers dwindled drastically in the past decade. Then, the limit on size was for fish over 30 cm. They started coming back, but literally every single whitefish I now catch is under 30cm. So angler harvest has had a huge impact on this species. A limit of 5 is over the top in this day and age, so I am happy with the changes coming. I have always felt the whitefish deserved protection as they are a key native species that are well adapted to the Bow river ecosystem. Also, if given a chance, their numbers can increase to substantial sizes in a relatively short time period.

[troutlover]

all this means nothing without enforcement.

[reevesr1]

Let me lead by saying I am not necessarily opposed to closing the Bow for the brown spawning season.

 

However (knew one of those was coming) I have always struggled with the logic on this. From what I understand, the decline in the brown population has 0 to do with angling during the spawn does it? It was from a major sapro event. So is this the logic: since the brown population is down, lets protect the spawning beds so they recover? Ok, sounds good. But wait, if the decline was due to Sapro, the population is going to recover whether or not the Bow is closed. And when it does recover (and it will), who thinks the Bow will reopen in subsequent Octobers? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

So here is my prediction: If the river does close in October, whatever the boundaries, it is forever (I mean it will close every October). Many here will say good. I may even be one of them, but I am very uncomfortable with the reasoning.

[toolman]

Yay... Reason may yet prevail, but unfortunatly it's too late.

Sapro may have delivered the final death blow, but there was another major event that occured a year earlier, that likely had a major influence on creating the right conditions for the collapse and demise of our Brown trout...

The Trans Alta water Diversion in the summer/fall of 2011.

It would be foolish to believe that there would be no negative impacts to the aquatic environment, from the millions of cubic meters of silt, coating the Bow rivers stream bed and extended high, turbid flow rates, post runoff. I have seen major changes in the hatch cycles of many aquatic inverts since then and so have many other anglers who pay attention to these details.

I brought these concerns up with SRD back in 2011, but they said that they were not the lead agency on it as it originated in a federal park, (Huh,er what?) ...but they would forward my entomological concerns to Fisheries Canada. That was a WTF moment for sure...

After the Sapro outbreak, SRD was likely under pressure to "do something" . Thus the ridiculous reg change.

Rick is correct, since the last Fisheries Regulations review was almost 15 years ago, we may have to wait a very, very long time, before we see these waters opened to fall fishing again, if ever.

I feel that the general fishing community at large could have been given proper notice of the public consultation meetings and online surveys to get a broader discussion going within the angling community. And how about giving us some data, fish counts, redd counts, etc. Good old fashioned scientific data that SRD says it is using to justifies these changes. Maybe some folks don't want us to see...

Maybe a "dry fly only" change in the regs would have been at least a reasonable compromise that would have had the same outcome the PETA crowd were looking for... "to give the trout a rest"

[eagleflyfisher]

Let me lead by saying I am not necessarily opposed to closing the Bow for the brown spawning season.

 

However (knew one of those was coming) I have always struggled with the logic on this. From what I understand, the decline in the brown population has 0 to do with angling during the spawn does it? It was from a major sapro event. So is this the logic: since the brown population is down, lets protect the spawning beds so they recover? Ok, sounds good. But wait, if the decline was due to Sapro, the population is going to recover whether or not the Bow is closed. And when it does recover (and it will), who thinks the Bow will reopen in subsequent Octobers? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

So here is my prediction: If the river does close in October, whatever the boundaries, it is forever (I mean it will close every October). Many here will say good. I may even be one of them, but I am very uncomfortable with the reasoning.

 

The way I've come to understand it is that yes sapro exploded as a result of the trans alta diversion.

Water ran high through the summer, deposited silt throughout, the sapro thrived in the silt and was ready to take hold.

The river was then dropped in the fall to incredible low levels. The water temps were high, water was low, fish were crammed closer together than ever.

The sapro now ready to go grabbed hold of the stressed fish. Be it fish caught by anglers or not it spread. Why the Browns & not so much rainbows I'm not surE.

So no the Browns decline is not from just angling during the spawn .

Angling for Browns during the spawn while they have sapro may be a different story.

I get it, they will recover eventually, will they recover better without any stress for their spawning months?

On a brighter note I saw no sapro fish last season, Anyone else ?? I must be fishin shitty because I didn't see many brown trout last season. I'm happy to hear & see a few this winter. Treat em nice !

 

[jpinkster]

A caught a handful of Browns last year. All very healthy looking, all very energetic

[troutlover]

yes you suck at fishing, everyone else was catching record numbers of browns. All kidding aside, i dont like the change i think that angling pressure has little to do with problems that face the bow river and more to do with dam management of water levels and focusing on habitat improvements. but changing regs is free the things that really matter will cost money. The changes wont even be enforced but who really cares the impact of disregarded regs will not collapse the fishery destroying the habitat will. Look at the K river beautiful water destroyed habitat.

[Guest bigdirty]

What does a trout with/affected by sapro look like?

 

I have seen a few fish with grey splotch, mostly around the face. Last fall I saw a fish that looked like it's skin was rotting off.

 

Sorry for the derail...

[eagleflyfisher]

What does a trout with/affected by sapro look like?

I have seen a few fish with grey splotch, mostly around the face. Last fall I saw a fish that looked like it's skin was rotting off.

Sorry for the derail...

 

That's it , grey /white splotches missing skin, swimming in shallows , half dead.

[alan2]

A few years ago I saw a Ling in shallow water in the Bow doing exactly that. And it looked like that too.

[SilverDoctor]

This is just a personal observation and I'm not a scientist just a life long naturalist, I believe that another thing (as Toolman mentioned) that the the Trans Alta diversion did with the huge silt deposit was have a terrible effect in not only choking out spawning areas but also affecting insect cycles. Areas that where clear pebble bottom or compact where choked with inches of silt. I really did notice a huge difference in quantity of nymphs and their resulting hatches after that point. There where dramatically fewer Stones, BTO's and a cross section of others in traditional areas where I would normally be able to see them flipping stones and studying bug seigning. The Net Builders disappeared as did many of the larger stones. With lessening of a food source and then the hit of sapro on the Trout it was a perfect storm. As far as Whitefish go I look at them like the canary in the coal mine. They are indicators of a rivers quality as they rely on fairly pristine conditions to survive.