Barbed Hooks Now Legal

[Jayhad]

THere's a huge thread on AOF about barbed hooks being legal now in Alberta, Sundancer says he contacted SRD

Hello Sun,

 

Thank you for contacting the ESRD Information Centre. Yes that is true, that barbed hook legislation is no longer being enforced.

 

Fish and Wildlife officers have ceased charging people for using barbed hooks, and will not swear tickets issued since the change in the legislation.

 

Please feel free to contact if you require any more information.

 

Cheers,

 

Craig Brown

Information Officer

Environment and Sustainable Resource Development

9920-108 St.

T5K M24

 

Are they serious, is there something we as fly anglers can do? The bait and gear guys are thinking this is the best day ever.... the fish in the Bow are soon going to have destroyed faces...

 

Bait and barbs on one of the worlds best trout streams... what the hell?

[SilverDoctor]

Not sure how this happened, I thought it was law as it's in the regs. My own use of barbless will continue. Such a shame. The biggest problem I see here is the lack of knowledge as to how to remove a barbed hook properly from a fish without ripping and damaging delicate parts

[Jayhad]

The biggest problem I see here is the lack of knowledge as to how to remove a barbed hook properly from a fish without ripping and damaging delicate parts

 

You are 100% right, with all the morons using raps with three trebles the fish are going to really suffer for this one.

[Muffin]

That is a crying shame, I find it more enjoyable to fish with a single barbless hook as it is more challenging to actually land a fish. Also as stated above they are very easy to come out and short of the occassional time where it punctures the fish in an odd location the damage is very minimal.

[ericlin0122]

don't think this gonna make any different on mortality rate anyway, 90% of the flies I found on the bow, other rivers, creeks, and etc have barb on them.

[SilverDoctor]

I phoned Fish and Wildlife this morning, I tie commercial flies and need to know the current standards. Yes the barbless hook law is not being enforced "at this time". The person I talked to said this is due to the Canadian Fisheries act which was rewritten and the Barbed/Barbless hook section was not included. I was also told to carefully watch for a change back to barbless. They could not give me a time just to be careful and keep an eye on future changes.

 

I personally am against barbed hooks for catch and release simply because of the damage I've seen. I've guided in Ontario, BC and Alberta and witnessed fishers who get frustrated because a barb is stuck in a fish. The result is ripping it out, instead of taking the time to extract it properly, it does take time to do properly . The other problem is barbed hooks take longer to extract resulting in a fish being out of water longer. A deterrent to catch and release. I will continue to pinch down the barbs on all the hooks I use. I have fished for well over 50 years and have nothing but the highest respect for all the species of fish I pursue.

[DaveJensen]

Good. The way it came to pass in the first place was a shame, the biological support for it is suspect, and resulting impact of a fishery is negligible. It would be a very good thing for this to now go through the local and regional Fisheries Mgt Round Table discussions for approval through proper process and procedures - or tossed altogether. If you know what you are doing, barbed/barbless is absolutely meaningless, and even those who don't - all you have to remember is to treat the fish gently and keep it in the water. Barbless or not is truly of little coincidence, which is why that reg was removed from the N Ram years prior to the province wide reg coming in. In fact, when the reg was introduced from the premier on down,not from any bio/tech or public movement, it wasn't at first intended as a province wide thing so much as to have a representative # of our waters barbless. The emails from one bio said "Since there is little to no biological support for this and no need or guidance shown on what waters, I propose that we choose waters with names beginning with the letters _, _, _, etc"

That tells you all you need to know.

[reevesr1]

Seems to me there was a study (or studies) on fish mortality vs. single, treble, barbless, etc, and that the conclusion was much like Dave said above. The barb made no measurable (or inconsequential) impact to mortality, nor frankly did single vs treble. Only difference was bait, hooked deep, for obvious reasons. The decision to go barbless, at least in light of these studies, is an aesthetic or guilt driven one more than a decision based on science.

 

All that said, I'm used to barbless. I love the fact that the hook comes out almost effortlessly when I stick a hook in my finger, or head.

 

edit: did a bit of further reading. Data really inconclusive and varied pretty widely with species. I did find a Bull Trout study from the Kinbasket region of BC for bulls caught trolling. Basically no mortality at all for any method (one fish died), single vs double hook, barbed and unbarbed, but bleeding was less with single barbless.

 

Anyway, I will continue to use barbless. I'm as susceptible to guilt as the next guy.

[shredneck]

Good. The way it came to pass in the first place was a shame, the biological support for it is suspect, and resulting impact of a fishery is negligible. It would be a very good thing for this to now go through the local and regional Fisheries Mgt Round Table discussions for approval through proper process and procedures - or tossed altogether. If you know what you are doing, barbed/barbless is absolutely meaningless, and even those who don't - all you have to remember is to treat the fish gently and keep it in the water. Barbless or not is truly of little coincidence, which is why that reg was removed from the N Ram years prior to the province wide reg coming in. In fact, when the reg was introduced from the premier on down,not from any bio/tech or public movement, it wasn't at first intended as a province wide thing so much as to have a representative # of our waters barbless. The emails from one bio said "Since there is little to no biological support for this and no need or guidance shown on what waters, I propose that we choose waters with names beginning with the letters _, _, _, etc"

That tells you all you need to know.

 

 

 

I don't need "science" to tell me that barbs do more damage than barbless. It's pretty obvious. Let me stick a barbed fly in your left hand and a barbless in your right.... I'll be getting the right fly back and i'll consider the left one a gift because it will not be coming out in one piece.

Personally I'll be sticking with barbless as I don't like "gifting" all of my flies. (oh and the fish may appreciate it)

[bcubed]

The science is also a bit skewed, as I've never seen a study using "unskilled" people to remove hooks. Joe angler who fishes 4 times a year or taking their kids out once a month won't be as proficient at removing a barbed hook. Barbless should be mandatory just for the time it takes to release a fish.

[nathaniel]

Yikes...kinda brought my mood down abit..not looking forward to seeing all the jackasses with their snelled hooks on the bow river and in the mountains. As for me..always have used barbless and always will.

[browntrout57]

Yikes...kinda brought my mood down abit..not looking forward to seeing all the jackasses with their snelled hooks on the bow river and in the mountains. As for me..always have used barbless and always will.

 

This debate is for barbed/barbless hooks. Not snelled hooks, they have always been legal.

[SilverDoctor]

Some of us that are not old and moss covered like old Doc here may not know what snelled hooks are. I’ve heard it referred to a many times as a barbed hook on a number of forums. It’s actually a knot we used years ago that permanently attached

eight or nine inches of leader to the fly, with a loop at the end of the line. It allowed quick change up of loop to loop to a brace of flies. In essence droppers tied to flies. I still use this system in some fishing situations.

[Hawgstoppah]

From a guiding perspective I am glad, albeit for selfish reasons. I'll see my clientelle (mostly unskilled or lower than average skilled fisherman) land a lot more fish they hook. But if there is a problem the guide (me) is right there to unhook the fish properly. I do NOT look forward to all the arseholes on our rivers who already treat fish badly enough but in perspective, do we really think those people we see draging fish up the bank, or mistreating them in any way, are pinching barbs now?

[maxwell]

this is messed up I just don't get it fisheries must have bin sick of writing tickets and gettin nothing done? I'm sticking with barbless no sence in switching back for the sale of a few more landed fish seems really odd I hope this is a joke... brutal!

[Flyfisher]

I personally am against barbed hooks for catch and release simply because of the damage I've seen. I've guided in Ontario, BC and Alberta and witnessed fishers who get frustrated because a barb is stuck in a fish. The result is ripping it out, instead of taking the time to extract it properly, it does take time to do properly . The other problem is barbed hooks take longer to extract resulting in a fish being out of water longer. A deterrent to catch and release.

 

My thoughts exactly - a good enough reason to keep the barbless hook regulation in place, at the least on heavily pressured fisheries such as the Livingstone R. and others like it.

 

I'm not so sure anyone knows definitively (Not Dave Jensen or the biologists he refers to.) what difference barbed versus barbless has on mortality rate in all situations on all fisheries. What Dave and the biologists do know is that their science/studiy to date does not support the idea that barbless reduces fish mortality in anything more than a negligible way across the board, albiet with the following caveat, " - all you have to remember is to treat the fish gently and keep it in the water." In a perfect world, I could accept that, even in the face of being suspect that the science/studies that Dave and the biologists he refers to may be incomplete in that it lacks realife control groups. In addition Dave and the biologists may not be taking into account aesthetics, something SilverDoctor touched on, not to mention the energy reserve of a fish. In other words I would argue that barbed hooks contribute to beat up low energy fish in heavily pressured catch and release fisheries. Couple that with the fact/trend that more and more Westslope cutthroat trout, particularly in heavily pressured fisheries, have to pose for a variety of photo ops after being caught (checkout Youtube and fly fishing sites such as this one to get may drift) along with what SilverDoctor here has witnessed over the course of his years (which in my view I share) I would take the precautionary principle and keep the barbless regulation in place. With all due respect I find the view here presented by Dave Jensen to be a little narrow.

 

Best fishes, Paul

[peetso]

Good. The way it came to pass in the first place was a shame, the biological support for it is suspect, and resulting impact of a fishery is negligible. It would be a very good thing for this to now go through the local and regional Fisheries Mgt Round Table discussions for approval through proper process and procedures - or tossed altogether. If you know what you are doing, barbed/barbless is absolutely meaningless, and even those who don't - all you have to remember is to treat the fish gently and keep it in the water. Barbless or not is truly of little coincidence, which is why that reg was removed from the N Ram years prior to the province wide reg coming in. In fact, when the reg was introduced from the premier on down,not from any bio/tech or public movement, it wasn't at first intended as a province wide thing so much as to have a representative # of our waters barbless. The emails from one bio said "Since there is little to no biological support for this and no need or guidance shown on what waters, I propose that we choose waters with names beginning with the letters _, _, _, etc"

That tells you all you need to know.

 

The highlighted portion of your text is what says it all. There aren't enough people that know how to remove a barbless hook properly let alone a barbed one. Rip and tear. Rip and tear.

 

This ain't a good move. At all.

[Taco]

Lotta high horses in this thread....

[robertboyce]

Some thoughts. Earlier this year I received my stewardship license and was intrigued by a note indicating that barbed hooks do not significantly increase hooking mortality. I had a hard time believing this and ended up corresponding with a number of fisheries folks all over the place reading a number of studies and all this changed my view of the situation.

 

I agree with Dave and Rick in that, based on the work I have seen, there is no significant difference in mortality between barbed and barbless hooks. Interestingly enough there is more than one peer reviewed study showing that hook configuration vs. hooking mortality is a highly variable situation. In more than one study, in both marine and freshwater systems, a barbless single hook was found to produce a higher level of hooking mortality than a barbed treble hook. I know it sounds odd. I didn’t start using treble hooks but this did make me think that there was more than I understood happening here and maybe I wasn't quite as clever as I thought I was.

 

I also agree with shredneck et al in that there is likely a difference between hooking mortality and injury and that there may be reasons other than mortality to use a barbless hook. There are fish swimming around that have lost their maxilla and have scars but they are still alive and healthy. This is exactly why using a barbless hook is not illegal in Alberta. I feel like this notion of barbless being illegal sounds odd but in some countries catch-and-release is illegal and if you’re caught releasing a fish you’ll be fined and shamed by your peers. BTW I would choose the barbless hook if you were sticking one in my hand.

 

There are other factors that consistently come up as causing increases in hooking mortality. I recall water temperature and duration needed to land the fish being the two consistent factors especially when they work together. A long fight in warm water is big trouble for a trout. If this is correct than a coveted 20” fish landed on 5/6x is likely at a higher risk of dying than the one cranked in with a spinning rod and a barbed treble hook.

 

I appreciate that studies are not perfect and that they need to be read with care. The world is filled with people studying everything and announcing their results as fact and that a study may not reflect what’s happening on the ground. I ended up feeling that enough work had been done by enough people in enough places that barbed vs. barbless was just not a significant factor in a fishes likelihood of dying after being caught through angling. If I choose to use barbless it had to be for a reason other than mortality and that forcing people to go barbless may not be a useful tool.

 

In the end I ended up feeling a bit bad about pushing barbless single hooks in the past. I really didn't know as much as I thought I did. I've ended up appreciating the fact that the spin caster using a barbed panter martin or spoon may well be causing no more risk to the fishes lives and me and a fly and in fact occasionally using light lines with big fish likely made me the culprit in the death of more than one trout.

 

I’m fine with dropping the barbless regulation so long as I can still use barbless when I choose to do so. I feel that there are likely other areas that would give us more conservation benefit like education and habitat preservation for example. I would love to see education required before obtaining an angling license in Alberta, especially for the east slopes.

[Hawgstoppah]

And while we piss and moan about hooks the ATV's keep on rumbling.

[Flyfisher]

And if we stop pissing and moaning about hooks do I think it would make any difference regarding ATV's and for that matter a whole host of legitmate reasons that threaten our fisheries. I don't think so. So why even go there....

[maxwell]

think if the increase in how many people using bars messing around trying to unhook fish taking way longer forget the facial damage I'm talking about people over handling fish struggling with them in nets on shore or with tighter grips because its more awkward to remove the hook because they are not use to the process I would even be "rusty" little dryflies getting ripper out is one thing and yes people will be "breaking necks" on them little not picture worth trout not to mention taking longer time removing out go to SJW/stonedly or bullyrout streamer with the photo worthy fish... just insane not even you Brian can deny that you have seen people struggle and mishandle fish with a crimped barb... is it about conservation or a extra $20 tip? even if my clients grumble about it next year I'm stickig with what's user friendly tote fish and most time effective when in the net

[robertboyce]

Thanks Hawgstoppah. At the risk of ostracizing myself I do feel that this forum can be heavy on words and light on action sometimes. My apologies in advance to those that are more active.

 

Here are some activities that I am aware of that we could do to become more involved (in addition to moaning ):

1. South Saskatchewan Regional Plan Phase II Workbook. For the love of all backcountry management please take the time to submit one of these workbooks. They can be online or hard copy. Numbers matter! The more voices sharing your values the more likely things will change. You do not need to complete the entire book….the government has stated that it will happily accept information in partially completed workbooks. Complete the portions where you have an opinion. The deadline is December 21, 2012. This information can be found here: https://www.landuse....es/default.aspx
    
   
2. Actively write your MLA and senior people in Environment and Sustainable Resources Development when you become aware of an issue, include photos and data if possible (e.g. Hidden Creek in the upper Oldman was just reopened for clear cut timber harvest which is occurring right now as I understand it.....I've read that in some years +/- 78% of adult migratory bull trout in the upper Oldman system spawn here. I hope there's a proper plan in place for this harvest. See here for a little more information on this creek and the overall drainage: http://www.ab-conser...ldman-drainage/)
    
   
3. Become active in a conservation group that shares common values (F&G Associations, TUC, AWA, ACA, etc.)
    
   
4. Learn more about/participate in the Stewardship License Pilot Project under ESRD Fisheries and TUC (harvesting brookies to make space for native species)
    
   
5. Learn more about/participate in the Upper Oldman River bull trout tagging project under ESRD Fisheries – volunteers are needed
    
   
6. Support existing programs that have had success in specific sectors (e.g. Cows and Fish)
    
   
7. Work to educate your peers (e.g. if you’re an OHV user promote the tires-on-trails philosophy)
   

I have some direct in a few of these (1,3,4,5) and would be happy to chat with folks and share the bit that I've seen.

[bcubed]

And really, as a guide you should be teaching how to land fish with barbless hooks...

[reevesr1]

Before people start pointing fingers at others, try to remember one thing. We ALL kill fish in the pursuit of our passion. No matter how careful we are, sometimes fish will die as a direct result of us catching them. As we become more skilled in handling fish, we tend to kill proportionally less. But since with that increase in skill in handling fish comes from handling lots of fish, we are still killing some. So it is beyond hypocritical to hold someone or any group in contempt because you think their techniques might kill more than you do. Educate, point out different methods, whatever. But keep the contempt out of it. We are all fish killers.