Lake Sundance

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Another poacher caught at Lake Sundance Calgary...

 

Today I had the misfortune of seeing someone I knew and talked to and helped to catch trout and perch turn a blind side to proper morals and instead join the ranks of the despised poachers!:mad3::mad3::mad3::mad3:

 

I saw him acting suspicious by...

 

1) keeping a constant eye on the office.

2) when catching a trout...fighting it with a straight rod, office can't see him catching a trout.

3) tip under held under water...so there is no trout splashing

4) hiding the trout with his body at all times while bagging it and hiding it in his seat.

5) when the office went over to check on him he quickly put one trout in his jacket to hide it.

 

How can people be so absolutely greedy and sad and sneaky and thieving all at once.

 

Sadly...catching someone I knew has really hurt my feelings. When you like someone and trust someone...you don't expect them to steal from you.

 

As a resident...we pay fees to go towards things like lake stocking. Stealing extra fish...reprehensible... When ever I see him again...he will get an ear full...

 

Anyways...when he got to the office he refused to be fully searched...stated he did not kill over his limit. Tried to lie to my face but could not keep eye contact. Fortunately...they were alerted to him stealing fish the previous day. He was seen with an extra fish in his coat. The office saw him on the binoculars landing two fish, I saw him clearly kill two and try to hide one in his jacket.

 

Therefore 1 YEAR SUSPENSION FROM FISHING AT OUR LAKE

 

For any other Lake Sundance residents...keep an eye out...especially this winter. Report the person to the office...keep the number on your cell. Talk to people you meet fishing and tell them you are over joyed the penalties have been increased for stealing/poaching.

 

Hopefully the guy does not go poach elsewhere!

 

Signed

 

Sad and disappointed with SOME people...

 

[beedhead]

Wow that sucks!!!...Even worse that you know the guy!!...Pretty sad...Pretty sad...Idd suspend him from the lake for life...

[Tungsten]

I vote Sundance as minister of SRD.

[flyfishfairwx]

I vote Sundance as minister of SRD.

X 1

[reevesr1]

And Environment Minister??

[bigbowtrout]

And Health Minister??

[Jeffro]

Don't forget to put him in charge of the of the global warming/carbon tax bank account.......I smell some new world class fisheries

 

Sucks that people do this, but glad there was at least some justice

[beedhead]

Im thinkin I might have came on a little strong in my above response..."Sundancefisher"-It never clicked in while I was reading your original post how you must feel about the whole thing, let alone you havin the Flu...Sorry to hear about it...I know I would feel some what shitty if I knew the guy and had witnessed the whole ordeal...But, On the same token, it pisses me off that someone would take advantage of the time, effort and money you Residence have put into your local fishery, and hell, yas grow some big Bows in there, Good work!!...I guess to relate-It would be like one of the many many people I have met and helped out at Bullshead over the years, became acquaintances/friends, and watch and or heard that they poached the lake...It would make me feel pretty disappointed...

 

Cheers...Jeff..

[rehsifylf]

Send him for counseling. Stealing from a community Lake? WTH? If I didn't read it here, I never would have believed it. I think poachers are like shoplifters. It has nothing to do with the fish.

 

Contrary to popular belief, compulsive shoplifters do not steal essential items that they cannot afford. The fact is that they are "adrenalin junkies" who derive a huge "rush" from the thrill of stealing and not getting caught. Most shoplifting addicts will tell you that the thrill of stealing is far more valuable than the item they made off with.

 

[jonny5]

Heres a question for you though... is it illegal to over harvest from a private pond, or is it a set of private rules that members are requested to follow? Would the COs be called for a situation like that?

 

 

 

[Neil Waugh]

Catching a fish from a pay-to-play trout pond from which the general public is excluded is not exactly the North American definition of "poaching."

Actually I've got a lot of sympathy for the guy and feel he was harshly treated by the residents' association who, as far as I can tell, are not the GOVERNMENT and may have encroached into an area where they have no legal business being.

Power - and Trout - to the People!!!!!!

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Catching a fish from a pay-to-play trout pond from which the general public is excluded is not exactly the North American definition of "poaching."

Actually I've got a lot of sympathy for the guy and feel he was harshly treated by the residents' association who, as far as I can tell, are not the GOVERNMENT and may have encroached into an area where they have no legal business being.

Power - and Trout - to the People!!!!!!

 

I feel bad that you condone people stealing and poaching. Whether is it a public water body or a private water body...the same principles of do not steal apply. As Beedhead alluded to I am more disappointed in most since I fished and helped this guy and my daughter even wanted to help him catch fish.

 

You unfortunate position of saying that their should be no consequences for stealing from fellow residents is strange and I would love for you to elaborate as to why versus just a blanket statement. I believe your intent is not to troll and as such you detailed point of view would add to the understanding of your position.

 

If you think this fella just poaches here or has never poached in public waters may be seen as naive. Clearly he was going out of his way. We all pay lake fees of which a portion goes to stocking. We stock at a certain rate to provide balanced angling and sharing of the stocked fish across the community. When one person feels that they are above the regulations then in your opinion chaos and anarchy is fine and that their should be no rules. If I am misunderstanding you please let me know.

 

As for are you just upset about a discussion of this being a private pond...well the topic is stealing and poaching. If you want to come fish sometime...you just need to ask. If you don't care about this lake...why post? We have stocked some 10 lb trout which will cost about $50 a piece. We had one guy a couple weeks ago steal 3...that is $150. No different that stealing 3 life jackets. As part of the issue dealing with theft the punishment has to fit the crime but it also has to act as a deterrent. Without a deterrent the few bad apples will just exploit the rest of us.

 

Thanks

 

Sun

 

P.S. Johnny...I would say that provincial fishing regulations insofar as removal rates on trout are not regulated by the Crown. We have 15 board members in a community with 3500 residences that make the rules. The board members are voted in every year. Annual meetings are held to discuss topics of concern. Our only recourse under law would be to charge the guy with theft under $1000. As he is stealing...the board feels a 1 year ban from fishing is fair. The next time it is currently 2 years...then his third strike is a lifetime ban. Our goal is to ensure catch rates remain high, fish size remains premium, anglers are in general happy and people that want to eat some are happy. I hope that answers your questions.

 

rehsifylf...I would love to send him to counseling. I agree that there should be an education component. An explanation as to why this behavoir is not condoned. Unfortunately some people feel they must get the fish before someone else. Some people might feel a sense of entitlement. Some people may feel they pay $200 a year in lake fees and only use the lake to fish and therefore should catch extra to offset. Some may just get a kick doing it whereas others may just care less. Regardless...hopefully the few that get caught...will learn and be an example to others.

 

[Tungsten]

Catching a fish from a pay-to-play trout pond from which the general public is excluded is not exactly the North American definition of "poaching."

Actually I've got a lot of sympathy for the guy and feel he was harshly treated by the residents' association who, as far as I can tell, are not the GOVERNMENT and may have encroached into an area where they have no legal business being.

Power - and Trout - to the People!!!!!!

 

How can you feel sorry for a guy who was warned the day before and still came back the next day and did it again?

[Guest Sundancefisher]

How can you feel sorry for a guy who was warned the day before and still came back the next day and did it again?

 

I agree Tungsten.

 

Our regs are posted on our website. A letter was sent to every household regarding the new regs. A sheet of paper with the new regs was hand given to each fisherman when they arrived at the lake. A billboard at the front is listed with the new regs. I have personally told him and discussed the regs and asked him to watch for poachers.

 

We could not have done more. Without saying to his face "we know you are stealing and we will catch you"...what else can we do as a lake being reasonable? I thought about telling him we are on to him personally but then the risk is he becomes sneakier and sneakier without getting caught. Now after his first strike...he is running short on fishing lives. That hopefully will be the last deterrent we need as a community.

[Taco]

Only the illegal taking of animals/plants in the wild is considered poaching. This case would be theft, no different than if someone shot and tried to remove a buffalo from someone's bison ranch.

[Smitty]

Only the illegal taking of animals/plants in the wild is considered poaching. This case would be theft, no different than if someone shot and tried to remove a buffalo from someone's bison ranch.

 

Fair enough Taco, I learned something new today. (checked it on wikipedia, which is never wrong

 

But in the end, when you get past the semantics, and substitute the proper word in Sun's first sentence, i.e. thief, instead of poacher, it doesn't detract from the strength of his position, or leads me to support Neil's somewhat naive opinion. There are plenty of organizations that have rules and regulations to follow, that have nothing to do with the GOVERNMENT (emphasis Neil's). And there are consequences, as there should be. An example is an abusive hockey coach that got a 2 yr ban from coaching, because of his breach of conduct rules. That's got nothing to do with the 'government' either.

 

Bottom line is that I think the residents acted appropriately and gave him a fair punishment. He should be grateful it wasn't longer and he should avail himself to get some education and understanding of how much work goes into these kinds of community resources.

 

Smitty

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Fair enough Taco, I learned something new today. (checked it on wikipedia, which is never wrong

 

But in the end, when you get past the semantics, and substitute the proper word in Sun's first sentence, i.e. thief, instead of poacher, it doesn't detract from the strength of his position, or leads me to support Neil's somewhat naive opinion. There are plenty of organizations that have rules and regulations to follow, that have nothing to do with the GOVERNMENT (emphasis Neil's). And there are consequences, as there should be. An example is an abusive hockey coach that got a 2 yr ban from coaching, because of his breach of conduct rules. That's got nothing to do with the 'government' either.

 

Bottom line is that I think the residents acted appropriately and gave him a fair punishment. He should be grateful it wasn't longer and he should avail himself to get some education and understanding of how much work goes into these kinds of community resources.

 

Smitty

 

I don't think anyone is trying to intentionally dwell on the word but rather the action.

 

Still as definitions go...

 

poach 2 (pch)

v. poached, poach·ing, poach·es

v.intr.

1. To trespass on another's property in order to take fish or game.

2. To take fish or game in a forbidden area.

3. To become muddy or broken up from being trampled. Used of land.

4. To sink into soft earth when walking.

5.

a. To take or appropriate something unfairly or illegally.

b. Sports To play a ball out of turn or in another's territory, as in doubles tennis.

 

No one is trying to say the law impacts poaching on the Bow in the same way as poaching on Midnapore, Sundance, Chaparral etc. Call it stealing, poaching, whatever...we need to stop it as much as possible where ever it occurs. Report a Poacher has done some good work. Penalties may not be severe. Our rules may not be severe enough for all. Still it will be interesting to see how the poachers behavior changes. Some are die hards.

[Taco]

Smitty;

 

Many parts of the world poaching is considered a romantic Robin Hood the poor vs the rich type of crime.

[dschultz1]

This might just be way way out in left field, but in these tough economic times...

 

Could it be possible that he's not fishing for fun.. but maybe for food?

 

We all assume things that maybe we shouldn't.

[ÜberFly]

Yet he can afford to live in a petty nice community that has pretty high community associated fees in addition to fairly high taxes (as opposed to on the streets, etc)! So sorry Darren, I don't by it!

 

P

 

This might just be way way out in left field, but in these tough economic times...

 

Could it be possible that he's not fishing for fun.. but maybe for food?

 

We all assume things that maybe we shouldn't.

 

[beedhead]

Yet he can afford to live in a petty nice community that has pretty high community associated fees in addition to fairly high taxes (as opposed to on the streets, etc)! So sorry Darren, I don't by it!

 

P

 

There are a lot of people try to keep up with the Jones's, and there is a lot of people at this sparing time, in way over their heads!!...Im not sayin thats why he did it...Im just sayin there are many many of people that have gone from riches to rags in the last year...I personally know a few of them...

[Smitty]

Smitty;

 

Many parts of the world poaching is considered a romantic Robin Hood the poor vs the rich type of crime.

 

Ah yes, a time honored, noble cause; poaching the king's deer to feed the downtrodden serfs.

 

However, I submit to you Uber's point about even affording to live in that community; indeed it may be a terrible assumption on my part, but it does strike me as an absolute absurdity that he (or anyone here) would justify it as a "I'm too poor and I need food" defence. Seriously!??????

 

Smitty

[dekkard2019]

I say we string up this so-called poacher and have are selves a good old-fashioned whoopin'!! How about a good ol' public flogging with a 14' spey rod? YEEHAW!!!

 

[canadagrey]

I think your community is generous with a 3 strike rule. I would agree with the first being a 1 year suspension but the second time LIFE. Great for the community to create a local fishery especially for the youth of the area. Great Job.

[Taco]

Ah yes, a time honored, noble cause; poaching the king's deer to feed the downtrodden serfs.

 

However, I submit to you Uber's point about even affording to live in that community; indeed it may be a terrible assumption on my part, but it does strike me as an absolute absurdity that he (or anyone here) would justify it as a "I'm too poor and I need food" defence. Seriously!??????

 

Smitty

The Nobleman's salmon too but in this case it's much more likely the "I helped pay for them, I'm taking my share" defense. The guy's an idiot, if your gonna steal something, try not to do it where you live.