Indicator Positions

[FishFury]

How do you determine your indicator position while drifting a river. With constant depth changes how do you pick a position for it. If it is a similar depth river the entire drift it is simple, but what do you do if the depths vary. For example lets just use the bow river. What depths do you put the indicator up your line to have best results? Do you change it often or keep it relatively the same the entire time?

 

Thanks

[SilverDoctor]

The general rule of thumb when fishing streams is that the indicator should go above the fly about 1-1/2 times the water depth. That said you may not want to change your depth for every run you fish, but should do so if the depth does change radically, so using an average works. In shallower sections you can "high stick" the run with your indicator out of the water.

 

Mind you I'll often go with a classic presentation with no indicator and just watch the tip of my fly line as the indicator. There is a very large difference between fly fishing an indicator and a bobber. With a bobber you are waiting for it to go down (aka: per fishing with worms). Indicator fishing is just that, signalling the smallest touch, twitch or change in direction to let you know when to set the hook. That's the basics, what you are needing to achieve is 1) a dead natural drift with your nymph 2) through the zone where your Trout lie. Achieving both these is the trick.

[WyomingGeorge]

If you're never getting stuck on the bottom (or occasionally losing flies), you are set too high/short. If you immediately hook the bottom every drift, you're too long/low.

 

That's for when you are deliberately deep nymphing for fish hugging the bottom. During a hatch fish lying in slower water will often move up the water column, so if the deep nymphing slows down even as bugs begin to appear on the water, you might want to nymph at half the water's depth.

 

Doc's steps 1 and 2 are the critical items. Perfect indicator positioning won't catch fish if the fish are somewhere else.

[bcubed]

I suspect if you watch the majority of guides, most never touch their indicators. 9 feet and lots of weight. Assuming that's what you're asking since you mention drifting the Bow. At the same point, essentially the anglers are just the ones holding the rods while the guides are the ones fishing by positionin and controlling the speed of the boat. Also a reason why most stick to the middle of the river.

[monger]

For the past 25 years or so my friends and I have stuck with 9ft and never change it. We've caught a couple doing this

[bowbonehead]

Is that all....just a couple

[fishinglibin]

I was going to say, Monger has trouble counting past a couple.

[WyomingGeorge]

Gentlemen, I must disagree. Every one of the pros I've fished with regularly moves the indicator. Books and magazines recommend the same thing. I can't imagine why one would set the bobber at 9 feet and fish away. If you decide to nymph a 2-foot-deep riffle, what's the point of having an indicator at all if it remains at that level?

 

C'mon Monger, you were pulling our legs, right?

[bcubed]

Wyoming, like I said, if you're floating down the middle (if you're into that...), guides (if we really want to call this guiding) aren't changing the float position. Different game if you're picking on structure and towards the bank, etc.

 

Personally, I'd rather throw a streamer then change bobber locations

[WyomingGeorge]

B: Understood. My comment was more about the other guys. Also agreed regarding streamers. Do you change spools depending on the water depth? OK, OK, bad line.

[bcubed]

When I did nymph while guiding, I would play more with flies and weight then indicator position. Typically you'll find you'll tangle more the closer the indi is to the flies, so I'd play more with the weight I was using then the depth of the indicator. If I wanted to go shallow, I'd hopper dropper.

 

To the OP, I don't think there is a set number, as while you can hear the 1.5 times the depth, that is too general in my opinion if you're fishing super heavy or super light flies, or added weight. Personally, you should be hitting bottom on every 4th or 5th cast, regardless of fly and depth fished. Provided you're not trying to imitate hatching nymphs or swimming ones (e.g., boatmen). Really, just find what works for you. Cool thing about fly fishing is you can be as anal or as lax as you want. I know guys who spend all day switching flies and moving indicators, etc, while others are ok with just getting a fly on and making it work. Long as you're enjoying it.

[monger]

In 2ft of water the flies just drag behind the indicator 7ft or so...they are bouncing along the bottom until a fish eats them, indicator moves, we catch a fish.

I couldn't be bothered chasing my indicator depth 7000x a day for every depth of water change. I am OK with the angle of leader between bobber and flies changing, it doesn't have to be near vertical to work. I'm not saying that a 9ft leader is the way to go all the time....but it is for me and the guys I fish with. You guys should do everything it says in the Official Fly Fishing Book. I am always moving when stream fishing so the water depth is always changing. You won't find me camped at a run/hole for the whole day with the perfect depth figured out casting for 5 hours.

[bcubed]

Exact same thoughts Rob. I spend all of 2 casts (maybe 3 if the first two sucked) in one spot before moving. The fish I want to catch are going to move for the fly anyway.

[WyomingGeorge]

Hey, you fellas are what we in the professional writing sector call "crusty". I find it thoroughly charming. Do you sport well-clipped beards, old though always washed and carefully ironed Pendleton shirts and ancient though well-maintained pickup trucks? Shall I bring a hip-flask filled with bourbon in case of a chance encounter?

 

OF COURSE only a control freak fiddles with gear when everything's already working smoothly. But if the flies don't work, we change flies. If the fish aren't hitting in the riffles, we check out the run. If the nymphs are hooking the bottom every drift, we...keep the interval set at 9 feet for the next 20 years?

 

Oh, crusty ones!

[bcubed]

Guess I must be crusty at heart, as I'm hardly able to grow a beard, let alone a well-clipped one.

 

Won't lie WG, when I'm nymphing (typically in the winter), if my 9 footer is hitting the bottom too much, I change my worm to a lighter one

[fishinglibin]

Bring the flask.

[BurningChrome]

Shall I bring a hip-flask filled with bourbon in case of a chance encounter?

Single malt please. Preferably Oban.

[monger]

I'm so crusty I haven't nymphed since March. I'll try a new fly and move my wine cork a couple of feet if I ever try bobber fishing again. Thanks for spurring me on to change.

[scel]

Single malt please. Preferably Oban.

 

I will also happily accept an offer of Dalwhinnie.

 

I often change my indicator depth. The most recent Fly Fusion has an article written by Gary Borger on Long Tippet Nymphing. Through some degree of luck and determination, I had already figured out his technique.

 

O----------------------o--------f1------f2

Indicator -> split shot -> fly1 -> fly2

 

Borger's technique is simple and logical. The distance from the split shot to the indicator should be slightly greater than the depth of the water fished. Since the current is slower closer to the bottom, there should be some lag between the indicator and the split shot, and the nymph rig should be moving slower than the surface current. The distance relationship between the split shot and the indicator is of critical importance. The split shot serves 2 purposes: to get the flies to depth and to anchor them. The indicator helps the split shot by suspending the anchor at the right depth and noting when there is a 'fish on'. Borger states that if your indicator and split shot are at the correct depths, any erratic indicator motion shows a fish is actively engaged with your flies---the angler needs to set the hook. However, if the split shot is bouncing off the bottom, the efficacy of the indicator-splitshot anchor is greatly reduced. The staccato of a dragging a heavy fly or split shot is something that can be gleaned from watching your indicator. This is also why I prefer not to use heavy wire worms or big stoneflies in place of a splitshot---they introduce a level of 'noise' into the indicator system by introducing false positives for 'fish on'. Sure, flies should occasionally snag the bottom and, sure, the angler should still perform a hook set. Ultimately, the distance from the indicator to the bottom fly still follows the '1.5x - 2.0x the depth of water fished' paradigm.

 

When I approach a new run, I find it takes less than 1 minute to determine the water depth and adjust the indicator. If I am about to spend 10 - 15 minutes on a run, I have spent less than 10% of my time optimizing chances for a hook-up. There are good chances that the next few runs will be close to the same depth and flow rate.

 

While in a drifting, however, I understand it is impractical to constantly be fiddling with your indicator, so a '1-depth-fits-all' solution is preferential. I follow bcube, 8'-9' indicator depth, and fiddle with the weight based on the river conditions, using a lighter system for low-clear conditions, and heavier for faster-deeper conditions.

[WyomingGeorge]

Breathtaking.

[monger]

I do things a bit differently in that my split shot is placed between my flies. It is my feeling that the split shot is on the bottom, while the unweighted flies are off the bottom. I will add another split shot in fast, deep water. Unfortunately I haven't read any fly fishing books so I'm just winging it. I guess when it stops working I will have these other suggestions to fall back on

[dryfly]

When the water is cold and the trout sluggish in winter, the bobber-to-fly depth should be shorter than in summer. In winter, it is better to not be on the bottom with a lot of slack in the leader. Here's why. Takes are soft in winter and if there is slack in the line below the bobber, takes will be missed. The trout will "mouth" the fly and simply open its mouth and eject the fly and you will never every see the bobber move because of the slack in the leader. If the fly is tied a tad short, then a soft take is more likely to be detected. Sure, you will miss a few fish clinging to the bottom. Can't get 'em all anyway.

 

I've not fish in winter for a few years (something that needs addressing), but hope to get out a few times this winter.

[WyomingGeorge]

Great tip, thanks.

 

You know, I'm reading all of this and making mental notes. If we can't get a few on the nymph tomorrow my head will explode

[BigFoamy]

Guess I must be crusty at heart, as I'm hardly able to grow a beard, let alone a well-clipped one.

 

Won't lie WG, when I'm nymphing (typically in the winter), if my 9 footer is hitting the bottom too much, I change my worm to a lighter one

lol, that was funny!!

[BigFoamy]

As a casual observer WG, you are the only one being crusty, just saying. Rule of thumb for me is 9', that said I will adjust if i have to. Im kinda with monger on this one, I just wing it. Been doing it for awhile now and just go out and fish. Manage to slay a few along the way. I buy mags for patterns. Flyfisings like hockey, to many people over thinking it. Back to the basics yo!!!