Can You Dry Fly Fish With A Faster Rod Or Do You Put More Trout Down?

[flywiz]

Hi guys

I am looking to buy a 4wt, 4 pc (bow river dries, mt cutties on dries and small streamers and nymphing, and I can't decide b/w a TFO finesse, bvk or pro series 2. They all have different actions, and I've heard everything from bvk is good all around to, don't fish it for dries etc

 

I have a signature series 2 pc, and really like it (except for in heavy winds, a little floppy), but want a 4 pc for the mts.

 

The finesse is 3 inches shorter than the regular eight-foot in 4 wt that TFO makes on other models, would this really affect casting distance that much?

What do you guys think?

Thanks a bunch

Adam

[jdangler]

Medium fast action, 4 weight 8'6" would be a good choice, would be my choice.

[darrinhurst]

I have the 8'6" BVK in a 5wt that I use specifically for dries on the Bow.

 

I absolutely love it. So much in fact that I now have a 8'0" 3wt for the mountain streams.

 

If you want to try it out, give me a shout and we can set some time up one morning/weekend and I'll let you give her a cast. If you like the Signature Series, you're likely gonna love the BVK. I had the 8'6" 5wt Signature Series when I upgraded to the BVK.

[flywiz]

I have the 8'6" BVK in a 5wt that I use specifically for dries on the Bow.

 

I absolutely love it. So much in fact that I now have a 8'0" 3wt for the mountain streams.

 

If you want to try it out, give me a shout and we can set some time up one morning/weekend and I'll let you give her a cast. If you like the Signature Series, you're likely gonna love the BVK. I had the 8'6" 5wt Signature Series when I upgraded to the BVK.

Thanks for the reply man

out of the 3 rods, I like the feel of the BvK the best, hands down.

Lightweight, firm, and well-balanced (I sound like I am talking about one of those chicks from Game of thrones haha)

So do you find that when you cast dry flies in flat water that there is more of an impact on the water with the faster action of the BvK, (and potentially scaring more trout) or is this just hearsay?

Thanks again man

Adam

[danhunt]

All things being equal, the action of the rod should be a moot point when it comes to presenting a dry fly because, ideally, your cast should completely unfurl above the surface of the water and the only disturbance should be caused when the fly, leader and line fall vertically. I think the reason that most of us favor a medium to medium/fast rod for dry fly fishing is because they are somewhat more forgiving than the uber fast models, which gives us a better chance of making a decent cast and getting the presentation you're looking for. So, to answer your question, go with the one that you feel best suits your style and casting stroke.

[BurningChrome]

I found from fishing a fast rod that the problem isn't the presentation if you can cast the rod properly, but more with protecting light tippet on the hook set. I used to use a Method and getting a strike was never a problem, but when fishing 4x or 5x it was tougher not to have them break off on that first run after the hook set or a good head shake. Switched up to an Accel and haven't had a fish break me off since.

[eagleflyfisher]

For dry fly fishing, hunting rising trout in tough spots, skinny water, no cover, flat water etc.. No I don't want a bullit fast action rod to lay down my 18 BWO on a 12-14 ft 5x leader.

I want to lay that down nice and easy.

Now are some fast action rods quicker than others?

I would say yes.

I picked up a couple rods last year in a 3&4 wt. I don't mind having a few 4 wts around, well the new ones are so bloody fast stiff that I find it really tough to fish the way I want.

So I would say get a rod that is a little more forgiving would be a good way to go.

It also depends on your ability, if you go with a super fast it will just take a while to get really good with it.

My 2cents

[sanky]

My two cents for what it is worth! I dry fly fish and I own numerous rods from Temple fork, Sage, St Croix, Hardy Zenith, etc. I have cast numerous other rods as well from low end to high end and I say not only do your research but test drive as many rods as you can to come up with your own opinion. This is how I look at it....would you ever but a new driver for golf with out hitting a few balls and reading some reviews? Google 4wt shoot out and read about fly fisherman testing rods and then go and try a few...I did and I ended up buying the Hardy Zenith 4pce 4wt and also the St Croix imperial. Have fun

[toolman]

Lots of great advice from many anglers, some who I know to be experts. My personal advice/experience on rod action. is about matching a casters natural casting tempo to the natural tempo of the rod and the level of casting experience. Slow tempo casters = slower, deeper flexing rods and faster tempo casters (like myself), enjoy what many anglers would consider very fast rods such as the Hardy Zenith 9'6" 6wt. (beautiful rod in my opinion). How the rod is lined will have an influence on the rod tempo as well. Line a rod lightly and it will have a slightly faster tempo and if you over-line then you will have a slightly slower tempo. The type of line taper will also influence the "feel" of the rod. Using a given line weight/line length, there will be a noticeable difference when casting a WF, DT or Spey tapers on your rod.

As Eagleflyfisher mentioned about casting faster rods, they can be considered somewhat unforgiving and may require more focus, better casting technique and time to get used to, but, I feel, that they offer several advantages such as, higher line speeds to bust the omnipresent wind on open waters like the Bow or on lakes. These stiffer rods also track very well, with less side deflection, leading to improved accuracy when shooting at tight targets at distance.

As for presentation, I feel that the action of the rod has little effect on how softly you can land a fly. I can land a fly soft or hard with any rod. It is all in the casting technique and the leader set up.

As for fast rods breaking off fish on finer tippets, I have landed many trout on my single hand and two hand spey rods using Frog Hair 5x fluro tippets, so don't see it as a consideration in respect to rod action choices. Consider that Atlantic Salmon anglers often land 30 lb'ers on 8lb. tippet using 15' 10 wt. Spey rods, so how you fight the fish and the leader/tippet set up can be critical to your landing success, but that should be a topic for another discussion.

[troutlover]

the St Croix imperial is probably my favorite 4 wt that I own and my go to dry fly rod. If you are going to consider the BVK go try one out the 8',6 cast WAY different than the 9'. Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is it is also going to depend on how much line you like to cast. Typically I try to get within 30-20 feet of rising fish. So I am going to find a rod that casts 30 feet of line really nice. The amount of line you have out really plays a huge factor in how the rod casts. If you like to throw long casts to fish then a stiffer rod would be the way to go because you will have enough line out to load it properly. It has been a rare occasion that I have had to throw dry flies over 30 feet......... but I am a sneaky ninja.

[Conor]

Faster, higher modulus rods will give higher line speed. If your casting is good and you can manage trajectory well, high line speed won't negatively impact your dry fly presentations. If your casting is not perfect, slower rods and line speed will result in fewer errors that lead to spooked risers.

 

I'm with Toolman that tippet protection is not really a factor until you get smaller than 5x. Any differences between rod blanks can be easily managed with technique. Don't fish 5x with an eight weight, but any four or five wieght should be fine.

 

Try some rods and pick something that you'll be excited to take out of the tube, every time. A few spooked fish either way won't impact the value of having a rod you love to use.

[darrinhurst]

 

Thanks for the reply man

out of the 3 rods, I like the feel of the BvK the best, hands down.

Lightweight, firm, and well-balanced (I sound like I am talking about one of those chicks from Game of thrones haha)

So do you find that when you cast dry flies in flat water that there is more of an impact on the water with the faster action of the BvK, (and potentially scaring more trout) or is this just hearsay?

Thanks again man

Adam

 

 

I would basically echo what danhunt said. Once the line and leader are completely rolled out, it doesn't matter the speed of the rod as only the weight of the line/leader/fly is what is landing on the water. If you cast like Hank Peterson and snap it like its hot and slam the fly on the water, then, yeah, I guess it would cause more of a disturbance lol

 

Darrin

[Guest bigdirty]

Conor touched on something I struggle with, trajectory. Seems whether I try to land softly or not I'm still crashing into the water heavy.

[darrinhurst]

Conor touched on something I struggle with, trajectory. Seems whether I try to land softly or not I'm still crashing into the water heavy.

 

The only advice that I can give is to try treating your presentation cast no differently than a false cast. Once you stop the rod and let the loop roll out, just lower the tip of the rod and allow the line to land.

 

I too sometimes get too excited an try to get the fly out there asap and that's when my trajectory gets too low and I start slamming the water. Sometimes, letting the line roll out is easier said than done lol

[SilverDoctor]

Never aim at a spot on the water. Go for 6 to 8 inches above then let it float down.

[flywiz]

Lots of great advice from many anglers, some who I know to be experts. My personal advice/experience on rod action. is about matching a casters natural casting tempo to the natural tempo of the rod and the level of casting experience. Slow tempo casters = slower, deeper flexing rods and faster tempo casters (like myself), enjoy what many anglers would consider very fast rods such as the Hardy Zenith 9'6" 6wt. (beautiful rod in my opinion). How the rod is lined will have an influence on the rod tempo as well. Line a rod lightly and it will have a slightly faster tempo and if you over-line then you will have a slightly slower tempo. The type of line taper will also influence the "feel" of the rod. Using a given line weight/line length, there will be a noticeable difference when casting a WF, DT or Spey tapers on your rod.

As Eagleflyfisher mentioned about casting faster rods, they can be considered somewhat unforgiving and may require more focus, better casting technique and time to get used to, but, I feel, that they offer several advantages such as, higher line speeds to bust the omnipresent wind on open waters like the Bow or on lakes. These stiffer rods also track very well, with less side deflection, leading to improved accuracy when shooting at tight targets at distance.

As for presentation, I feel that the action of the rod has little effect on how softly you can land a fly. I can land a fly soft or hard with any rod. It is all in the casting technique and the leader set up.

As for fast rods breaking off fish on finer tippets, I have landed many trout on my single hand and two hand spey rods using Frog Hair 5x fluro tippets, so don't see it as a consideration in respect to rod action choices. Consider that Atlantic Salmon anglers often land 30 lb'ers on 8lb. tippet using 15' 10 wt. Spey rods, so how you fight the fish and the leader/tippet set up can be critical to your landing success, but that should be a topic for another discussion.

Thanks for the advice toolman, I like the feel of the bvk, and I think I may go in that direction after doing some more homework;

I hear ya about the wind and trying to cast accurately a long distance to a riser, and I think the fast action would help, it is good to know from everyone, really appreciate it, that in general the line does not "slap on the water" more with faster actions; It sounds like with practise you can learn how to cast softly with them no problem;

Thanks a tonne guys!

[flywiz]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this post, I appreciate yas taking the time and great information from all !

[Pipestoneflyguy]

No experience with the rods you listed but I did fish a very fast rod for years up here in the mountains (5 wt Helios tip flex). 95% of my fishing is on dry to spooky fish. That speed and power was indespensible in off-shore/cross winds. Never found a problem in still conditions, just need to curtail the power on the presentation stroke and let the rod do the work, yes it was unforgiving but that is resolved with practice.