jimbow Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 i for one want to know when a business does not provide good service or have good business practices to avoid that business. it's always so surprising to me when people have no backbone for posting names and information in these exact situations. the guide didn't show and has not responded to telephone calls and emails. as someone posted simply stating the facts cannot and would not result in any legal action - how could it? try to prove damages from such a post. facts are facts. no lawyer, with any brains, is going to take on such a case. it would be a lost cause from the start. i think fisherwoman must be american given her use of the term attorney where it's a more litigious society and that is likely where she's coming from. since when did people turn into such milquetoasts? come on moderators show some backbone. unless you have a written opinion from a lawyer on this issue you're just 'fraidy cats.
Flytyer Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 i for one want to know when a business does not provide good service or have good business practices to avoid that business. it's always so surprising to me when people have no backbone for posting names and information in these exact situations. the guide didn't show and has not responded to telephone calls and emails. as someone posted simply stating the facts cannot and would not result in any legal action - how could it? try to prove damages from such a post. facts are facts. no lawyer, with any brains, is going to take on such a case. it would be a lost cause from the start. i think fisherwoman must be american given her use of the term attorney where it's a more litigious society and that is likely where she's coming from. since when did people turn into such milquetoasts? come on moderators show some backbone. unless you have a written opinion from a lawyer on this issue you're just 'fraidy cats. brndawg you are missing one very important point here.......anything posted here is considered written and is more conclusive evidence then any spoken word will ever be.......Let's say you were this guide and it was released who you are what would you do about it? I'll bet you'd be coming to us to find the identity of who did it...........then what?
reevesr1 Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 i for one want to know when a business does not provide good service or have good business practices to avoid that business. it's always so surprising to me when people have no backbone for posting names and information in these exact situations. the guide didn't show and has not responded to telephone calls and emails. as someone posted simply stating the facts cannot and would not result in any legal action - how could it? try to prove damages from such a post. facts are facts. no lawyer, with any brains, is going to take on such a case. it would be a lost cause from the start. i think fisherwoman must be american given her use of the term attorney where it's a more litigious society and that is likely where she's coming from. since when did people turn into such milquetoasts? come on moderators show some backbone. unless you have a written opinion from a lawyer on this issue you're just 'fraidy cats. Brndawg, Not often you get the words "milquetoasts" and " 'fraidy cat" in the same post. I got a seriously good laugh out of that. Thanks!! As an American, I can easily say the chances of anyone getting sued over a negative comment on a fishing board is essentially zero. That being said, if the moderators don't want the name posted, shouldn't this argument be over? It's their board, they give their time for free, therefore their rules. Pretty easy, yes? Sorry if some now view me as a recreant, or even a namby-pamby.
toolman Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Milquetoasts, I can live with...fraidy cat?........fraidy cat ....LOL...meow...!
PeteZahut Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 I think it is funny when non-legals get into these conversations. What's the difference between going out and reading a review someone posted about a restaurant which said it was the worst food they ever had? Would the restaurant sue them for slander? Not likely. If the consumer of a product or service is not happy, they should be able to write about it. If the moderators choose to not allow that type of posting than that is their decision. To say it is because they are scared of legal action is bull. I for one would like to hear about problems that people have with products or services. If a guide doesn't show and doesn't provide explanation then we should know about it so people can make the decision whether they would want to go through that service provider. Saying the name of a guide who didn't show up and that you will never use them again is not slander/libel or whatever. If the moderators don't want this type of posting on the forum than "moderate" and delete it.
Glenbow Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 I would like to add that this board is free for all of us members to use. The moderators give their time & guidance to keep this board going and to maintain the character or 'flavour' of this board. I feel that we must respect what the moderators dictate to keep this board the great place that it is for all of us. It is a great place for all of us to meet, discuss, learn and share and I for one hope it remains that way. Let's keep a good thing good.
toolman Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 I don't think the admins and moderators do a bad job of keeping this site a decent, friendly place for all to enjoy. To speculate that we are somehow incompetent or idiots, is not fair, nor respectfull. We try and maintain harmony in our fishing community and have no desire to see this site become a place for people to come and vent their problems with the business community. (There's always two sides to the story) Any business will have a few unhappy customers that will slam them publicly, given the opportunity. We don't give them the opportunity, as it just becomes a *hit show that we won't be part of. Now you can disagree with our policy if you wish and call us names and hang labels on us if that's your style, but we won't change the policy. Pretty simple.
H2O Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 If the consumer of a product or service is not happy, they should be able to write about it. If the moderators choose to not allow that type of posting than that is their decision. To say it is because they are scared of legal action is bull. I for one would like to hear about problems that people have with products or services. If a guide doesn't show and doesn't provide explanation then we should know about it so people can make the decision whether they would want to go through that service provider. True enough Pete. Unfortunately this board is privately owned and any censorship can be conducted by the moderators as they see fit. For all we know they could be protecting a frequent poster and/or a friend of their own.
Guest bigbadbrent Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 which is why this isn't a true forum...forums are free speech orientated, and the only moderation that is needed is if people start flaming EACH other on the boards, use bad language, or to just get rid of the riff raff. The whole point of a board, i think anyway, is to get opinions....we allow advertising of clinic's and such, yet wont allow reviews of business's or products or anything.....
MMAX Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Just forget about it...Birchy already said he was sorry for not showing up. If you paid him that's one thing but if you didn't let it go. Maybe the guy died or something like that.
cdock Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Birchy not show up for fishing? That's like the sun not rising.
Guest Rocknbugs Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 True enough Pete. Unfortunately this board is privately owned and any censorship can be conducted by the moderators as they see fit. For all we know they could be protecting a frequent poster and/or a friend of their own. My opinion is that they are protecting someone on this sight.
Pipestoneflyguy Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Bwah ha ha ha ha Show me a court willing to hear that case, and I'll show you a room full of kangaroos, unicorns and fairys !!!! When I guided climbing, if I pulled that kinda crap, I wouldn't have lasted very long, that's for sure, and deservedly so. but.... That said, the moderators have the right to make the call on behalf of THIS site, no matter what the basis for their decision - end of debate - as members, we should respect that - if you want a site to do this type of reporting, and they're are hundreds rating (and trashing) everyone from doctors to teachers, then go out and create one, and moderate it as you see fit. Recourse ??? - if the guide is legitimate then call the BBB, chamber of commerce, City of Calgary business license office, Naders Raiders, or the 5th estate - Where did the reference come from ? a shop. let them know what hapened ? No matter where the guide came from I would bet he wasn't found here and as such why try to reslove it here - going to the source would make sense to me Just my 2 cents...
toolman Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 We are attempting to protect the integrity of this site. There are always a lot of whiners just looking to vent their petty fustrations, as shown by the posts on this thread. As for us protecting our friends, I know almost every guide in southern Alberta, so yes, he may be a friend of mine, I don't know, nor do I care. This has always been our policy at FFC and we have no plans on changing it. We are all about positives, not negatives. But hey, vent away, it sure is entertaining. Who's next?
Guest bigbadbrent Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 pipestone, there is no guide licence for being a guide, you can just walk into alberta and get paid to go fishing..
PeteZahut Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Just a quick clarification in the case I was misunderstood. I am not against the moderators choosing types of topics and the limits on what they want. That is totally up to them and I do not have a problem with that at all.
Pipestoneflyguy Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Wow thats a little surprising Brent - generally its to the advantage of an industry to regulate itself to some degree, if at minimum to assure a standard of service and expertise, and thus establish/preserve industry credibility. But that said I was speaking more specifically to a requirement for business license, and if the guide is operating without one than that comes with its own set of hazards - in one case, it was a client submitting his bill as an education expense for tax deducton - since I (Oops,... I mean someone) couldn't prove their actual income, taxation estimated it for them - you can guess what the result was for that poor dude (ahh the foolish things we do in our youth...). If there is no credible source to go back to (like a shop or a flyer or a web page etc etc) then maybe this is a plain old buyer beware situation, how did these two hook-up - sitting in MacDonalds, on the riverside, in a dark alley LOL - hard to sit in judgement with such a big piece of the story missing - I can see why the Mods don't wanna touch this stuff with a ten foot pole (no spey pun intended Greg)
DutchDryfly Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Well, I have to say ( or more properly write ) it is an entertaining post. I have no clue why people in North America are just dying to go to court. But I have noticed the same behavior starting overhere. It is allright to post positive comments about flyshops, but the negative ones will be deleted. That is fine if someone is abusive in the negative post, but telling that the service was bad and the reasons why you feel like that should be allowed, without getting sued. How is that for the information freeway of today's world? I understand that moderators do not want to get sued, but your laws should be changed. Rob ( who really likes the freedom of speech )
toolman Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Rob (pipestoneflyguy), that would be a 12'6" pole...grin Rob (DutchDryFly), the thing is, if we allow one person to post their complaints, it would only be fair of us to have to allow the business operator a chance to present their side of the story and we feel a court room is a better place for that to happen, rather than a flyfishing site. Even better, they could discuss it privately with the business/person they have a problem with, which usually ends in a resolution. If someone feels they have been treated unfairly, then they have the option to take the appropriate legal actions to recoup any perceived financial damages, through our court system. As for freedom of speech, we have many laws governing our speech in Canada, as you also have in the Netherlands.
Guest bigbadbrent Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 no more negativity fellahs No more saying which flies not to use, since that'd be negative towards the creator no more reviews of fly lines, will cast a shadow over the line perhaps no fishing reports, will make others that dont catch anything feel bad no asking the pro's, you'll feel bad for having to ask, pro's might look down on you no more casting, might make everyone feel jealous of others casting no more fly rods, wouldn't want the creater of a different rod feel bad No more catching cutties, rainbows, browns, bulls, carp, catfish, bonefish, tarpon..its unfair for us to show their pictures when they cannot rebuke us.. no more bitching about poachers, cant rebuke us no more bitching about politics, can't rebuke us no more bitching about Suzuki, can't rebuke us no more posting, and we're set.. all reports must be as following : All fish caught were 13.5 inchs long, and you only caught 3 of them, all on hares ears.. Any different posts will be removed..
toolman Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 wow...brilliant...flame away. I'm not even getting warm.
tgo Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 I understand why the moderators want to keep the name out of it. I respect the fact that they know pretty much all the guides and don't want to cause trouble with/for them. In the context of legal action, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Ever hear of TripAdvisor? Their policy is to allow only reviews that bring up legitimate concerns with management, such as overbooking, quality of service etc. However, I've also read reports by people who accuse staff of stealing their possessions and other serious, criminal matters. This is done without certainty as to the innocence of the people running the hotel, for obvious reasons, however TripAdvisor is always free to delete the posts at their discretion. My opinion is that we should respect the moderators decision, its better than them having to actually start deleting posts and constantly policing the site. I've seen people bash fishing gear and other products on this site, so its likely that they are mainly concerned with avoiding non-legal horseshit rather than worrying about libel suits.
Brownstone Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 no more negativity fellahs No more saying which flies not to use, since that'd be negative towards the creator no more reviews of fly lines, will cast a shadow over the line perhaps no fishing reports, will make others that dont catch anything feel bad no asking the pro's, you'll feel bad for having to ask, pro's might look down on you no more casting, might make everyone feel jealous of others casting no more fly rods, wouldn't want the creater of a different rod feel bad No more catching cutties, rainbows, browns, bulls, carp, catfish, bonefish, tarpon..its unfair for us to show their pictures when they cannot rebuke us.. no more bitching about poachers, cant rebuke us no more bitching about politics, can't rebuke us no more bitching about Suzuki, can't rebuke us no more posting, and we're set.. all reports must be as following : All fish caught were 13.5 inchs long, and you only caught 3 of them, all on hares ears.. Any different posts will be removed.. Holy *hit buddy..how old are you 12?
steelhead Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 wow...brilliant...flame away. Well, just what i wanted to hear!! Since this post is going nowhere, I may as well chime in with a flame. There are alot of whiners on this board. But I have to agree with the keeping of names off these boards of those in the industry who dont fulfill thier obligations. Wether its true or not. Now, if its big business, no problem. Steelhead
Brownstone Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Now, if its big business, no problem. I'd agree with this statement..it's not a pound of bad hamburger you bought at Safeway..there is a persons reputation, livelyhood and perhaps career at stake here..your not bashing some faceless corporation...
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