I Plain Don't Get It

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

I just have to wonder the difference between us and the United States.

 

Tommy Douglas - the father of CDNs present day medicare was voted as our country's Greatest Canadian. President Obama, who is trying to do something about the medicare system in the US is roundly criticized.

 

From WIKI a summary of the US situation.

 

At least 15% of the population is completely uninsured,[1][2][3] and a substantial additional portion of the population (21%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs.[4][5] More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[7] Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased.

 

 

regards,

 

 

Don

[ÜberFly]

Don,

 

I think the healthcare lobby (read insurance companies and pharma) are going to lose billions!! That's why there was so much resistance!

 

P

 

 

Folks,

 

I just have to wonder the difference between us and the United States.

 

Tommy Douglas - the father of CDNs present day medicare was voted as our country's Greatest Canadian. President Obama, who is trying to do something about the medicare system in the US is roundly criticized.

 

From WIKI a summary of the US situation.

 

At least 15% of the population is completely uninsured,[1][2][3] and a substantial additional portion of the population (21%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs.[4][5] More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[7] Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased.

 

 

regards,

 

 

Don

 

[jack]

The health insurance industry in the U.S. is huge, add pharmaceutical manufacturers, doctors, medical technology manufacturers to the lobbyist mix and you have huge $$$s to be spent on negative campaigns and flowing into the pockets of Congressman's election campaigns.

And don't forget that many Americans are not informed about how the rest of the world works. So, many sheeple are led by loud and long diatribes that contain scare words like that boogey-man "SOCIALISM".

As the so-called leader of the free world, they all know that "SOCIALISM" is EVIL, right? And the Tea Party is born.

j

[Nick0Danger]

From what I get when I talk to the yanks, is they don't want to pay for another persons health problems. I would say i have talk to about 30 Americans about this and 3 or 4 are okay with it. Everyone else goes, they can take care of themselves.

 

The one question i ask them is what if it was you. What if you lost your job and lost your health benefits, and then ended up with cancer, how would pay for it. Never got a reply.

 

I believe they have the crime they have is partly do there the laissez-faire way of thinking. I don't do know you there for not my problem. I'm not a mike Moore fan but his last 2 movies Capitalism a love story and his medical one have some truths to them i think everyone should think about what is said in those 2 movies (don't take his word for it however do your research and question what everyone in the media says).

 

That said, they are more socialist than they think, when a government bails out companies to the tune of 700 billion dollar they are socialist in my books. If i ran a business and knew the government would bail my ass out, what is my intensive to run it properly.

[reevesr1]

Before everyone gets on their high horse about this, I would be interested to know what the reaction to Public Health Care was the day AFTER Tommy Douglas passed it. It's not an apple and orange comparison, yet.

 

As someone who has lived significant time in both places, as much as you guys hate to hear it, ya ain't all that different.

 

We are also trained pretty much from birth that the government needs to stay out of our lives as much as possible. Tough to get over that.

 

All that said, this bill is garbage. Did not even come close to going far enough. Go to single payer, get it over with.

[Taco]

Before everyone gets on their high horse about this, I would be interested to know what the reaction to Public Health Care was the day AFTER Tommy Douglas passed it. It's not an apple and orange comparison, yet.

 

As someone who has lived significant time in both places, as much as you guys hate to hear it, ya ain't all that different.

 

We are also trained pretty much from birth that the government needs to stay out of our lives as much as possible. Tough to get over that.

 

All that said, this bill is garbage. Did not even come close to going far enough. Go to single payer, get it over with.

 

Not so smooth

 

 

 

[troutlover]

OH YA Rick!!! Not so different!!!!!.... PEE_CAN PIE!!.... Take that Texas.!

[jack]

I don't think Canadians have anything to get on their high-horse about. First, our "system" is not the most efficient, or cost effective, by any stretch, but then "profit" does not create efficiency either, not when the public purse is paying. I don't know if a public/private health care system like some European countries have, is the answer, either. I've been treated very well by government operated hospitals in both Canada and the U.S. so my own personal experience is myopic.

 

In Saskatchewan, when medicare was brought it by Tommy Douglas, there was a exodus of doctors out of that province. The sky was going to fall, there wouldn't be a doc left in the Prairies. They all moved to BC and by the time they had all settled in BC, by gawd, medicare was nation wide!! THEN they were all going to move to the States! It was ALL about $$s. Pretty soon, under medicare, the docs were making 250-300 grand a year and the specialists were making 600 grand and everyone joined a clinic to share expenses and everyone was happy and half the doctors moved back to Saskatchewan for the "quality of life".

 

And so it goes. When Grace and I were first married and living in an apartment in Vancouver, there were two couples who moved in to the building and the two wives shared an apartment while the husbands worked in Seattle and only came up on weekends. Both women were in their early pregnancy, they moved to BC, established the 6 months residency so that they could have their babies and not be crushed with the medical bills they would have had back in Seattle, because they did not have any medical plan. There are American retirees in the Seattle area that come up on a charter bus every 3 months to do the tourist thing in Vancouver and fill their prescriptions at some pharmacies !! But, I guess it works both ways, when I needed to be "fixed up" after a particularly bad landing (in some trees), the company flew me to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore for a year of surgeries to put "Humpty Dumpty back together again". A cost shared by Workers Compensation and the company medical plan.

j

[Highlander]

I work with guys from the US and I can tell you that this issue is very polarizing down there. Many people just listen to the retoric and base their opinions on that. They came at me for waiting periods to see my Doctor and were surprised to learn that I can see my Doctor next day or sometimes even the same day if needed. Of course this was all BS to them, because they have the best medical system on the planet, right?

 

Then I asked them if it is so good, how come the life expectancy of the average American is 2.5 years less than the average Canadian, and why the US ranks a paultry 38th in the list of countries with longest average lifespan. These was another round of BS calling, but two of them actually went and checked the facts and told me I was right the next day.

 

[Smitty]

Rickr:

 

The 2 systems is very very different, especially philisophically. The population of US citizens that are uninsured + ineffective (their claims get turned down, aka "sh***y insurance") is greater than the entire population of this country.

 

Our system is flawed, undoubtedly, but I'll take our flawed, socialist system any day over one that exposes me to risk of (1) being uninsured (2) the treatment I need is not covered, costing me thousands.

 

So yeah, I have no problem helping my fellow Canadian out and paying for their problems, because, inevitably, he pays for mine.

 

On a separate note, I've heard many many complaints about this bill, so I have no idea if this ends up being a net positive for Americans.

 

Smitty

[reevesr1]

Rickr:

 

The 2 systems is very very different, especially philisophically. The population of US citizens that are uninsured + ineffective (their claims get turned down, aka "sh***y insurance") is greater than the entire population of this country.

 

Our system is flawed, undoubtedly, but I'll take our flawed, socialist system any day over one that exposes me to risk of (1) being uninsured (2) the treatment I need is not covered, costing me thousands.

 

So yeah, I have no problem helping my fellow Canadian out and paying for their problems, because, inevitably, he pays for mine.

 

On a separate note, I've heard many many complaints about this bill, so I have no idea if this ends up being a net positive for Americans.

 

Smitty

Smitty,

My wife is a nurse, and has worked extensively in both systems. I've had loved ones go through major care in both systems, including my parents who went broke back home paying for cancer treatment. I'm pretty sure I'm aware of the practical and philosophical differences between the two.

 

And if it wasn't clear, I think this system is better. My point was that this bill is so watered down it does not really change anything (that is just an unfounded opinion, I do not know the specifics of the bill other than there is no public option-the one thing I thought they were shooting for in the first place.)

 

And Taco, thanks for the link. I did not know what the reaction was to the original Canadian plan, but knowing what peoples typical reaction to major change is, it was not hard to predict. Seems just a vicious as what Obama is going through. Go figure, things really haven't changed all that much.

 

[trailhead]

I was down in Arizona during a anti-Medicare rally and there were people waving guns in the air because of the proposed legislation. Now I have heard that there are going to be numerous lawsuits launched against it, and that when the Republicans get back in power they will try to quash it. I don't know if anyone here watches the TV show "Breaking Bad". But there is a direct link between insurance debt and crime.

[Nick0Danger]

excellent point Trailhead,

[unclebuck]

 

I watched this live after school in the mid 90's I didn't even know what an HMO was but it is something I never forgot. THey didn't cut it short either when it was live like they did here. Don't watch if you are queasy but it shows the desparation that some people have felt with HMO's over the years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS-CdjB1sLg

[ÜberFly]

Having lived in the states for 3 years, I have heard horror stories about HMOs... Most often a committee decides whether you receive treatment or not (in simplistic terms) and if it costs them too much, they drop you (you do not receive treatment)...

 

P

 

I watched this live after school in the mid 90's I didn't even know what an HMO was but it is something I never forgot. THey didn't cut it short either when it was live like they did here. Don't watch if you are queasy but it shows the desparation that some people have felt with HMO's over the years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS-CdjB1sLg

 

[hydropsyche]

Evaluating for profit healthcare to socialistic healthcare comes down to a couple of things for me (and I don't know the answers).

 

The belief that government can never be as efficient as private. Probably true but probably not when looking at any huge corporation.

 

The belief that socialism never leads to technological advances as much as capitalism. (probably true. What motivates better then money?).

 

My concern and apathy for my fellow man and for myself. Desperate people do desperate things. Look after them and they won’t smash you over the head with a hammer to steal your wallet.

 

So, as we see America take a step closer to our system (applause), I’m also hoping Canada takes a step closer to theirs.

[duanec]

As someone who has lived significant time in both places, as much as you guys hate to hear it, ya ain't all that different.

ummmm...right. 'cept for the better beer, and superior hockey players.

j/k.

[reevesr1]

ummmm...right. 'cept for the better beer, and superior hockey players.

j/k.

Touche!