ÜberFly Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 As some of you know I am looking at purchasing a 3 wt this coming year and I am interested in a shorter (7' or 7'6') small stream rod... Most of the rods I have researched are "fast action" rods, but there are a few out there that are medium action (from my understanding more of a classic style of rod). Can anyone give me a breakdown of the pros/cons (advantatages/disadvantages) of fast vs. med with a short(er) rod - I have a fairly good grasp of the diff with regards to longer rods (of course, taking personal casting technique out of the equation as I'm hoping to cast a number of these rods at the show). Thanks, Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Peter: Dan Hunt sent me a perceptive description for one of our new rods that capture the essence of a small, moderate action stream rod. I have edited his text to avoid blatant product promotion: “Wary wild trout and technical fishing situations provide some of our richest and longest lasting memories, but demand a level of precision and finesse that can be difficult to achieve with the high line speeds generated by today’s most popular rods. With ...............a relaxed moderate action reminiscent of the finest traditions of classic cane, ... . Get back to measuring the length of the catch rather than the length of the cast.” I just cannot find words that "say it", any better. Thanks again, Dan. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 So what you are saying Jack (through Dan), is that med action = greater precision and lighter presentation?! I knew that of a longer rod, but was unsure of whether it was the same (or not) for shorter rods... With what you (and Dan) have said, begs the question... Why have "faster" shorter rods?! P Peter: Dan Hunt sent me a perceptive description for one of our new rods that capture the essence of a small, moderate action stream rod. I have edited his text to avoid blatant product promotion: “Wary wild trout and technical fishing situations provide some of our richest and longest lasting memories, but demand a level of precision and finesse that can be difficult to achieve with the high line speeds generated by today’s most popular rods. With ...............a relaxed moderate action reminiscent of the finest traditions of classic cane, ... . Get back to measuring the length of the catch rather than the length of the cast.” I just cannot find words that "say it", any better. Thanks again, Dan. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 for someone with a more aggresive casting stroke dude... i like em fast but even with my short stick i still haul once n a while and use more power with my stroke and stops n starts... but if u just want too barely hit it and feather it in there get a slower rod....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Thanks Max! P for someone with a more aggresive casting stroke dude... i like em fast but even with my short stick i still haul once n a while and use more power with my stroke and stops n starts... but if u just want too barely hit it and feather it in there get a slower rod....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 "Why have "faster" shorter rods?!" Also for the "instant gratification factor". For the newbie, no real skill or learning required, fast rod, compact WF line, tapered leader, 50-60 ft with their eyes closed. And that is where the market is. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Ok... I'm now just a tad confused... Jack, you say a short fast rod is easier, and Max says ("but if u just want too barely hit it and feather it in there get a slower rod...") a short medium is easier?! Or is what you are saying, a short fast is easier for "longer" casts?! Huh?! P "[Also for the "instant gratification factor". For the newbie, no real skill or learning required, fast rod, 50-60 ft with their eyes closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Just easier to simply cast, Peter. No finesse, no presentation, just get line out. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownonbow Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 No expert here, but this is my experience, You say that you want to fish small streams with it. If that is the case then I would go for a rod that has some flex. You want to deliver a well placed fly in close quarters so you shouldn't have to lay out 90' of line. I bought a fast action rod for the mtn streams and am disappointed with it for just that reason. You have to stand a mile away from the fish just to load a fast action rod. You want to stalk the fish at close quarters, that is the fun in small stream fishing. Yes they may throw a larger loop but you are not on the flats stalking bone fish. And if the wind picks up in the mountains I would suggest laying that fine dry fly rod down, grab the streamer rod and target the bullies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 track down a shorter head "j man cap" ever find something with a really long taper overline it 1 or two and chop 15 feet off!!!! but i see were u are coming fmo i got a fast 3wt for most dryfly stuff but i also use it on alrger rivers. for cutties i got a mid flex medium fast 2wt with is deadly under 40 feet! personally with most of my clients i find they toss mid flex medium rods way better! than a fast.. u doont want a fast action rod if u are just tossing big loops... get a slower rod and u will be stoked on how you loop improve without changing your casting stroke!.. like peter mentinoed! go out and cast a bunch! dotn listen too what someone tells ya.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrinhurst Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 All I know is that I have a 7'6" 3wt TFO Signature Series 4 pc that I use for the mountain streams and I love it. No idea if it's fast, slow, medium or what, but it sure casts like a dream. Absolutely love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 dotn listen too what someone tells ya.. I'm not listening to you right now. Sorry, couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 If you want to fish small stream with a shorter rod you'll need one that will fish from 12' to 35'. IMO the rods that will do that best are on the slow side of medium and either Glass or Grass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownonbow Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 track down a shorter head "j man cap" ever find something with a really long taper overline it 1 or two and chop 15 feet off!!!! but i see were u are coming fmo i got a fast 3wt for most dryfly stuff but i also use it on alrger rivers. for cutties i got a mid flex medium fast 2wt with is deadly under 40 feet! personally with most of my clients i find they toss mid flex medium rods way better! than a fast.. u doont want a fast action rod if u are just tossing big loops... get a slower rod and u will be stoked on how you loop improve without changing your casting stroke!.. like peter mentinoed! go out and cast a bunch! dotn listen too what someone tells ya.. Maxwell, I hear what your saying with regard to cutting line and doubling the line weight to load the rod. It will load at shorter distances, but your now throwing a fat, heavy line. It just doesn't seem right, your not really fishing the rod the way it was intended to be fished. A fast action light weight rod should probably be reserved for the likes of the bow for dries. I'm gonna sell the rod and get a one that can load at short distances. I just think the experience will be enhanced with a small fish on a rod that flexes. Even more than that it will load at close range which is key to my enjoyment on small streams. My $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhuseby Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Instead of worrying about which is best, hit the Flyfishing Exposition in January and cast some of the rods at those 15-35 foot distances you usually get on small streams. When you find one you like, bingo. Everyone has different casting mechanics and preferences, so you need to find what works for YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Thanks for your input mang! But as I already mentioned in my original post... as I'm hoping to cast a number of these rods at the show LoL P Instead of worrying about which is best, hit the Flyfishing Exposition in January and cast some of the rods at those 15-35 foot distances you usually get on small streams. When you find one you like, bingo. Everyone has different casting mechanics and preferences, so you need to find what works for YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Maxwell, I hear what your saying with regard to cutting line and doubling the line weight to load the rod. It will load at shorter distances, but your now throwing a fat, heavy line. It just doesn't seem right, your not really fishing the rod the way it was intended to be fished. A fast action light weight rod should probably be reserved for the likes of the bow for dries. I'm gonna sell the rod and get a one that can load at short distances. I just think the experience will be enhanced with a small fish on a rod that flexes. Even more than that it will load at close range which is key to my enjoyment on small streams. My $0.02 The line wt written on the rod is just the manufacturer's recommendation. Try overlining it, I regularly over or underline almost all my sticks, graphite or glass to get them to handle the way I want and never hurt one yet. I been known to fish my so-called fast action broomsticks 2 sizes up for close-in work. Many a dog rod has come alive with a different line. Lefty on line weights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hot damn!!! This is refreshing. Seems like some of you have finally figured out that short & fast rods are not worth much for trout fishing under 40'. The real problem comes down to the choice of material. It is nearly impossible to build a shorter slow action rod of graphite. In order to get the rod to flex in lighter line weights the shaft diameter gets very small to the point where some folks have actually cast a #12 dry fly directly thought the shaft. The casts often required for small stream work such as curves, tucks, reach or various other types of slack line casts are accomplished much easier with slower action rods. As Taco says - glass or grass. Or as several have pointed out - jump the rod a number of line weights to get the thing to flex. Every rod material has it's place. Grass or Glass for precise casts under 40'. Graphite for longer distance work. catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monger Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 It's great to FEEL the nuances of a softer/slower rod rather than just hucking line with a broomstick. Isn't that what a small rod is all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Thanks for all the info boys! If I could afford grass that would be the cat's ass, but unfortunately not in this life time (maybe Deb will buy me one for a wedding present?!) See you on the small streams! P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I have a fast action 8'2" 2wt with a 2wt line that I've used on the Oldman, Liv, etc. to toss everything from size 20 adams to size 8 chernobyls. I enjoy the setup and haven't had any trouble loading it to fish short distances (under 20'), but I could see someone else not liking it as much. Never cast glass or grass, so I can't compare it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 (maybe Deb will buy me one for a wedding present?!) P Congrats, Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Thanks Mike, but you totally knew that already, didn't you?! P Congrats, Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Thanks Mike, but you totally knew that already, didn't you?! P Whens the big day?Maybe a bachelor party on the Bow is in order.I see it now Drunk fly fisherman duck taped to belly boat seen floating down the river.Ha Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 Yeah something like that!! We'll talk! P Whens the big day?Maybe a bachelor party on the Bow is in order.I see it now Drunk fly fisherman duck taped to belly boat seen floating down the river.Ha Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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