Oilsands And Acid Rain

[SupremeLeader]

Another proud moment for Alberta.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/200...t-oilsands.html

[Jayhad]

Coal fired power plants based in Sasq put out much more air born pollutants then the oil sands.... i think this is a very one sided article

[reevesr1]

A one sided article from the CBC? No way!

And SupremeLeader is against the Oil Sands? Again, no way!

 

 

[theiceman2]

Rick take it from me as a geologist who works in exploration and production for a public company, we should all be against the oil sands.

 

[SupremeLeader]

A one sided article from the CBC? No way!

And SupremeLeader is against the Oil Sands? Again, no way!

 

 

There is acid rain in Saskatchewan; a fact based on a study relayed via the article.

 

The acid rain is the result of pollutants from Alberta.

 

Rickr and Jayhad; the article is pointing out that facts indicate that pollution from our province is destroying sensitive areas of Saskatchewan.

 

Your response:

 

I'm against the oil sands.

 

The CBC is one-sided.

 

Saskatchewan produces more air pollutants.

 

 

 

 

I am unsure why you both can't see the real issues in this article.

 

The article clearly indicates that the data concerning this issue was "obtained by the [saskatchewan Environmental Society] from the Saskatchewan environment ministry"

 

Rivers and forests will be severely damaged because of the corporate interests of our province.

 

Jayhad, it is likely that coal plants in Saskatchewan do damage the atmosphere as well; perhaps there pollution goes to Manitoba? Does this make the pollution we create ok?

 

Interesting how so many Albertans have such little foresight, and such excessive amounts of greed that seem to consistently cloud their common sense.

 

Ya, you're both right.....the Saskatchewan Environment Society / Ministry are lying, they pollute more than we do, and the CBC is involved in a conspiracy to publish outright lies about Alberta........

[reevesr1]

Rick take it from me as a geologist who works in exploration and production for a public company, we should all be against the oil sands.

Matt,

Take it from a engineer who has worked in the oil industry for going on 20 yrs now. This province and country needs the oilsands, and until VIABLE alternative energy sources are available (and anyone who think those exist today is fooling themselves), so does the world. A bit of a selfish position on my part as I probably have money in the bank (though not as much as last year) directly attributable to my peripheral association with the oilsands (SAGD).

 

SL,

Unnecessary shot at you on my part, sorry. Though you do tend to come down on the anti-industry side on a fairly regular basis. Doesn't make you wrong about this subject though, or any other for that matter. I come down on the pro-industry side probably too often. The possibility exists that I am wrong sometimes as well. In my defence, my kids need to eat.

 

But-is the CBC a left leaning news organization? Um, yes it most certainly is IMHO. Does that mean that both they and the Sask Environment Ministry are in cohoots? It most certainly does not. But the answer to this is not to shut down the oilsands. It is to discover the source of the acid rain and fix it.

 

Whatever, I'm sure this thread will degenerate into a money grubbing bastards thread like these things are wont to do. Sorry I contributed to it's downfall.

[bigbowtrout]

Rick take it from me as a geologist who works in exploration and production for a public company, we should all be against the oil sands.

 

 

Open pit or SAGD or both?

[LynnF]

Another proud moment for Alberta.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/200...t-oilsands.html

 

Tell me SL....in which industry do you work and what do you do? Is it any way related to the industry/companythat is causing such dire environmental damage that you've got your knickers in a twist about? I'm betting it is, directly or indirectly. So one should be careful about what one cares to care about. Either that or one should leave his job and/or the province if one cares so much. Just another dead and beaten horse on this board - just the names and places are different.

[SupremeLeader]

Tell me SL....in which industry do you work and what do you do? Is it any way related to the industry/companythat is causing such dire environmental damage that you've got your knickers in a twist about? I'm betting it is, directly or indirectly. So one should be careful about what one cares to care about. Either that or one should leave his job and/or the province if one cares so much. Just another dead and beaten horse on this board - just the names and places are different.

 

 

You bet wrong Lynn.

 

To reiterate; please focus on the article and not me.

[Castuserraticus]

Rick take it from me as a geologist who works in exploration and production for a public company, we should all be against the oil sands.

 

As a geologist who works for a private company - ???????????

[midgetwaiter]

Coal fired power plants based in Sasq put out much more air born pollutants then the oil sands.... i think this is a very one sided article

 

Do you have any idea how much energy is used to get one barrel of the crud they pull out of those mines into a state where they can pump it to an upgrader? All of that energy comes from either natural gas or coal fired power plants in Alberta. Sulfur and Nitrogen compounds from burning fossil fuels cause acid rain and the prevailing winds are west to east, not north south. There is no other side to this story.

 

The article presents facts not opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

[SanJuanWorm]

Why has this forum turned into a environmental pissing match. Oilsands are bad, economy needs it. Its a no win arguement.

 

Oil and gas debates don't work well here. Just search every other one that has been posted.

 

Jeebus.

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

Some years ago I attended a Sulphur Producer symposium where a presentation was done by a engineer who was chairman of a think tank [ might be a oxymoron in there somewhere] who told us the forecast for Oilsands was a production of 36,000,000 LT of sulphur/year. At that point, the world sulphur production was only 36,000,000 LT of which Alberta shipped 4,000,000 LT of which 2,500,000 was from production.

Now most modified Claus process attain about 99.3% efficiency. So, if you can believe an engineer, FT Mac. will dump about 690LT/day to the atmosphere.

Anybody ever see Sudbury?

 

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don

[Hawgstoppah]

You think this gov't we have gives a rats ass about the environment? Go have a look at the destruction around all our public forestry reserves created by ATV's and offroading, and that's not even putting money in the gov't coffers' They don't give a *hit about ablerta, let alone sask...

 

sad ain't it?

[LynnF]

Why has this forum turned into a environmental pissing match. Oilsands are bad, economy needs it. Its a no win arguement.

 

Oil and gas debates don't work well here. Just search every other one that has been posted.

 

Jeebus.

 

Ya. That's what I was tryin' to get at. Someone is gonna get banned eventually so we should just quit talking about this *hit now. We all work and/or depend on the oil patch to live. And our lives are more important than anything. And that's reality. End of discussion

 

[bloom]

Ya. That's what I was tryin' to get at. Someone is gonna get banned eventually so we should just quit talking about this *hit now. We all work and/or depend on the oil patch to live. And our lives are more important than anything. And that's reality. End of discussion

 

 

Sorry you're wrong...if we don't talk/become concerned this stuff it will go unchecked...and my daughters life/future is more important than mine.

 

 

(sorry for getting all poetic..and I'm not even an anti oilsands guy, but not a pro oilsands guy either...it's just that the comment sort of scared me)

[reevesr1]

Just a quick set of definitions for any website arguments:

Fact=the belief of the person making an argument or presenting a position

Opinion=the belief of whoever he is arguing with.

 

Sorry Dave and Lynn. Just had to keep the fires burning.

[LynnF]

Sorry you're wrong...if we don't talk/become concerned this stuff it will go unchecked...and my daughters life/future is more important than mine.

 

 

(sorry for getting all poetic..and I'm not even an anti oilsands guy, but not a pro oilsands guy either...it's just that the comment sort of scared me)

 

Don't get me wrong...I think discussion and debate is healthy - especially when it comes to this stuff and the futures of our children and grandchildren. But, seriously, this board has seen this stuff beaten to death (insert beaten dead horse graphic here please) and unless this board and the folks on it are willing to, and have the power to, take this discussion thread and somehow get major political attention by it, then it really is not productive. Anyone who is really concerned about this stuff (and we all are...just to different degrees) should write a letter to someone of influence and not debate it to death, again, with a bunch of fly fishers stuck inside because of the rain - or whatever. Kinda like the random camping issue - quit writing about it on here with no hope of resolve and write a letter. And, yes, I did....several of them.

[flyfishfairwx]

Don't get me wrong...I think discussion and debate is healthy - especially when it comes to this stuff and the futures of our children and grandchildren. But, seriously, this board has seen this stuff beaten to death (insert beaten dead horse graphic here please) and unless this board and the folks on it are willing to, and have the power to, take this discussion thread and somehow get major political attention by it, then it really is not productive. Anyone who is really concerned about this stuff (and we all are...just to different degrees) should write a letter to someone of influence and not debate it to death, again, with a bunch of fly fishers stuck inside because of the rain - or whatever. Kinda like the random camping issue - quit writing about it on here with no hope of resolve and write a letter. And, yes, I did....several of them.

 

agreed send it on to an MLA or the premier ... you do not even need a stamp.. email, flood them let them know we are Pissed!!!

 

I have sent them too..

[midgetwaiter]

Just a quick set of definitions for any website arguments:

Fact=the belief of the person making an argument or presenting a position

Opinion=the belief of whoever he is arguing with.

 

Fact: When you mix sulphur dioxide with water it lowers the pH of the solution.

Opinion: The CBC is being mean to us.

 

I'm not anti oilsands, I consider it a necessary evil. What I don't care for is when the obvious problems with the development of the resource come up everyone starts ranting about how the evil liberals are trying to rot our brains and make us all gay. Put the Glen Beck "book" down, and think for yourselves.

 

 

 

[reevesr1]

Glen Beck. That's funny. I do watch him sometimes when I need a laugh. Same with Rush, I listen to him when I feel the need to yell at the radio. Both a couple of right wing windbags. Never voted for the right in my life, so don't confuse my reaction to the original post with a political position. Had the article been posted without the "another proud moment for Alberta" comment maybe the responses would have been different.

 

And thanks for the science lesson. Maybe we could add some di and tri sodium phosphate to get the ph back up (just in case you want to get into a water chemistry discussion).

[SupremeLeader]

Ya. That's what I was tryin' to get at. Someone is gonna get banned eventually so we should just quit talking about this *hit now. We all work and/or depend on the oil patch to live. And our lives are more important than anything. And that's reality. End of discussion

 

Get banned...for what? Talking about the atrocities of industry?

 

Indeed Lynn, 'our lives are more important than anything', however, that contradicts supporting the oil sands as they contribute to the detriment of all living species on the planet.

 

I think what you meant to say is 'our money is more important than anything'.

 

We don't all work or depend on the oil patch to live; that is just more corporate oil propaganda.

 

I discuss these issues in hope that those who believe and support the oil sands will change their mind or reconsider their support for that atrocious eye sore on our planet.; and it is hardly beating a dead horse.....some people will see past greed, and find the truth.

[orvisonly]

I am unsure why you both can't see the real issues in this article.

 

Rivers and forests will be severely damaged because of the corporate interests of our province.

 

I agree. However, if you want to see some environmental impact right here in our own province, go to Coordinates 51.043229, -114.062419 and look at the devastaion. This location used to be pristine river landscape and now it has been scraped clean and is almost devoid of vegetation. Very sad.

 

I'm happy to live in a country where there are people who are not intelligent enough to understand that the hypocrisy of their stated convictions is a subconscious effort to assuage their own guilt. I'm even happier that the small minority of rational thinkers are able to prevent these addlepates from having any real influence on policy.

[duanec]

talk is cheap. that's the bottom line.

like elsewhere, these types of complex issues never seem to progress beyond/deteriorate quickly into grade school playground bullshit.

or maybe that's the desired result, and i continue to miss the point. i'm really not too bright.

so what's a reasonable solution, some alternatives, and what action is suggested?

otherwise i'll take my ball and go home.

 

[bhurt]

Get banned...for what? Talking about the atrocities of industry?

 

Indeed Lynn, 'our lives are more important than anything', however, that contradicts supporting the oil sands as they contribute to the detriment of all living species on the planet.

 

I think what you meant to say is 'our money is more important than anything'.

 

We don't all work of depend on the oil patch to live; that is just more corporate oil propaganda.

 

I discuss these issues in hope that those who believe and support the oil sands will change their mind or reconsider their support for that atrocious eye sore on our planet.; and it is hardly beating a dead horse.....some people will see past greed, and find the truth.

 

My only question is if it is not beating a dead horse then why do we need 100 diffrent topics about the samething or same topic (In the end it is all about the enviroment, might be diffrent stories but in the end its all about the samething), why not have 1 topic about it. If it gets pushed down from other posts, instead of making a new post just reply on that one.

 

It is obviouse that you care for our evniroment and I can respect that but when I come onto the forum and I see a new topic about the same subject every week it starts to get on my nerves cause it is hard to shift through everything and read everything when it is scattered all over the place. If you think people will care then you don't need to start a new thread every time you find a new news artical.

 

So how about this. How about anyone concern or wants to debate over this subject keep it to this thread and have no other threads start?

 

My biggest complaint about alot of the things that you talk about is the fact that it is your way or the highway, alot of times you just back up your comments with news articals and personally I do not watch the news or read the newspaper because for the most half it is full of half truths and most of the time is a sespool (sp?) for inactrate information. Also if you are so concern with te species of the world then I guess you might as well hang up all of your fishing gear because it is more harmful to catch a fish then to leave it, but YOU IN YOUR GREED to catch a fish still do it. Might not happen in our lifes but sometime soon all the fishies in the river will be gone........

 

STOP FISHIN EVERYONE

 

(Incase you didn't get it I was beeing sarcastic with my stop fishing everyone comment)