Poll: Is It Time Yet For Classified Waters In Alberta

[Smitty]

Well alright guys, I am definitely curious.

 

Like Snapfisher said, we debate and beat dead horses, but the essential thread that binds us is that we are a passionate group that cares about our fishing.

 

So I was wondering, after our beating the dead horse debates, what the results of this poll might be. I left it multiple choice, so you could pick 5 and 6 too.

 

 

Smitty

[duanec]

already flagged this thread as high potential 'good debate' and/or 'good comedy'

[headscan]

Nope. Unless you can show me empirical evidence that the fish are being affected by the number of anglers on a specific piece of water then there's no need. If it's based on the perception of overcrowding then you're proposing something no different than the much despised Skeena angling management plan.

[Hawgstoppah]

I'm gonna stay outta this one... be interesting to see where the votes go. Im guessing the votes will reflect our negative feelings towards BC's rules and it's already going that direction.

[theiceman2]

I know in NB you apply for a license for salmon and you are assigned a string of pools if you are sucessful. I think that would be alittle over kill for a trout stream. I do believe the regs should be catch and release only for starts.

[Smitty]

Nope. Unless you can show me empirical evidence that the fish are being affected by the number of anglers on a specific piece of water then there's no need. If it's based on the perception of overcrowding then you're proposing something no different than the much despised Skeena angling management plan.

 

 

An excellent point Headscan. I voted yes, its time (#1). But I wonder if my motivation is purely selfish nolstalgia, based on my perceptions and my longing for the so-called "good-ol days", of when I could reasonably expect some waters to myself, even during mid-week.

 

So you're totally correct, even though I voted the opposite from you, that fisheries managament should be based on sound science and practices, what's best for the fish, and angler management should reflect that, based on empirical evidence. No doubt the basis of me posting this poll - besides curiousity - is my own frustrations of trying to deny the reality that our more productive waters receive a lot of fishing pressure, and whether or not that really has anything to do with justifying putting in special regs.

 

I say all of the above in a detached, matter-of-fact kind of tone.

 

I guess I am just selfishly human.

 

Keep voting folks.

 

Smitty

 

[bigalcal]

I'm gonna stay outta this one... be interesting to see where the votes go. Im guessing the votes will reflect our negative feelings towards BC's rules and it's already going that direction.

 

I agree with ya Hawg!!

[ÜberFly]

With what's been previously discussed in other posts, enforcement was the issue, is the issue and is going to continue to be the issue...

 

P

[duanec]

k. well 4 outta 5 dentists/doctors/lawyers will probs pay if you tell them to.

if all those proceeds went to raising more funds for proper management and enforcement, i'm ok with a little premium here and there. doesn't have to be as reedonkulous [financially or logistically punative] as some of the bc 'management plans' tho.

that's not a good model to follow.

 

maybe it would keep the riffraff out.

jk.

 

ya gotta think tho that it's gonna happen someday. when yyc is 2 million people, and there's another 10000 houses lining the banks all the way down to policemans, what impact will that have on the watershed?

 

let's face it alberta's been lagging far behind and been in reactive management mode for how many years?

 

[Taco]

As long as the outfitters are limited to X rod days I voted #1

[headscan]

With what's been previously discussed in other posts, enforcement was the issue, is the issue and is going to continue to be the issue...

ya gotta think tho that it's gonna happen someday. when yyc is 2 million people, and there's another 10000 houses lining the banks all the way down to policemans, what impact will that have on the watershed?

Wait, are we talking about going to classified waters for limiting rods on the water and forcing non-residents to pay more (my understanding) or conservation and enforcement?

[cuttbow]

Anybody have an idea what BC rakes in a year on the classified licenses.We always say were short on enforcement. Might help to hire a few more. We still go to BC to fish theyll still come here.

 

My 2 cents

[zed]

i just returned from a classified river in bc and saw 7 cars parked at various points...6 were albertan. there's no way you see that kind of ratio of bc plates on alberta rivers, do you? a classified water system in alberta wouldn't bring in the same kind of money as it does in bc...unless you ding the americans real good for fishing the bow. i voted #1.

[Nick0Danger]

i just returned from a classified river in bc and saw 7 cars parked at various points...6 were albertan. there's no way you see that kind of ratio of bc plates on alberta rivers, do you? a classified water system in alberta wouldn't bring in the same kind of money as it does in bc...unless you ding the americans real good for fishing the bow. i voted #1.

 

 

The reason you see so many Alberta plates is the BC fisherman, go somewhere where most albertans just have not found, and if a car they cant get to.

[Golfman09]

I vote 1 as I think people from other places/ provinces should pay a premium to fish waters in other areas, especially when a little higher license fee will probably not change the choice of a much larger cost for the vacation to get them here. Those funds can then be put towards enforcement and stocking programs to further enhance the fisheries....the thing that I would assume would be that these people making the trip to fish in Alberta from elsewhere would be the least of our worries for enforcement as they may be the most educated and respectful with regards to our passtime. At least with the fly fishing community.

 

I currently hold three licenses and paid way more for the ones that I'll only use for a handful of days vs. the Alberta license. Change the mindset a little....I couldn't play 3 rounds of golf for what I paid to fish for the entire year in three regions......hhhhhmmmmmmmmm.............. I don' t think people will mind if it will improve the area for their next visit and in turn will benefit the locals who benefit the most.

[Conor]

The crowding on our waters, if you can call it crowding, is not not from people outside of AB. I can count on one hand (maybe two) the number of BC or SK license plates I have seen at an access point.

 

A change like that would not be easy or cheap. Governments are notoriously inefficient. When would we start to break even on the cost of this change? Would we need a whole new system by the time we started to get revenue out of the change? I don't see a classified waters system bringing significant revenue to our province, if any.

 

If you want more revenue from licensing, lobby to increase licensing fees in general.

 

I agree that natural resource management needs to be dynamic and proactive (not reactive), but a classified waters system in AB is not the way to go.

 

[maxwell]

yes its time

[Mykiss]

A few questions

 

- What systems get classified?

- How many rod days do guides get?

- Who eats the bill to create this "classified" waters

- Can we have a resident only stretch @ the Poo hole I'd say 100 yards above and below the discharge should work......

- Can we have a steelhead surcharge on the bow for the non-native bow/cutthroat/steelhead hybrids

 

People would see it for what it is and that is a cash grab.....No money from the classified waters would go back into the fisheries for conservation nor enforcement....it would fill the Political coffers that would be all.....

[Taco]

BC doesn't bother classifying streams w/effed up genetics like the bow and the crow, waste of time, money and effort.

 

 

 

Edited to clarify

[pkk]

not a chance. is it for the fish or yourself. the fish will never benefit. we are all just so selfish that we figure we deserve to not see anyone on our favorite run (there are a million people in calgary, so give it a break). there are more guides on the river than any out of town do it yourselfers. maybe you should add a column for guide restrictions.

plus when it happened in se bc all anyone did was complain about it. should we follow the same footsteps? does it make it right that just because it is us doing it. NO

[SanJuanWorm]

If I could just get the Jet boat my #5 choice would be done. Then I could proceed right to hooliganery.

[jayjjones11]

I'm not one for 'classifying', but we do need to increase the licencing cost for everyone (including the in province).

 

Bigger concerns are what the people of Alberta are doing to their backyards (livingstone, oldman, etc). Putting restrictions on places such as Mclean and Indian Graves just pushed the yahoos into an area that has far greater importance to the fishing population. Seems to me the Livingstone/Oldman has more to lose then Mclean or Indian Graves have left.

 

I'd love to see the livingstone and oldman made the same as the upper highwood. Provincial park it, and run it as such. That would slow down the yahoo traffic quickly.

 

speaking of hooliganery, I wasn't too impressed by the person waterskiing the Bow as i was fishing (yes you read it correctly, water ski). Perhaps there is some need for a few 'chats' with the government.

[wtforward]

Jay

 

Could we just hold off on the boat retrictions until

we get as many people water skiing as there are guiding..

just to be fair minded and all.

[jayjjones11]

I'm all for licencing guides. 100%.

[Smitty]

Quick update:

 

Well, I felt I should remove #5 and #6 due to shenanigans. Too bad some people lack a sense of humor (for those that missed it, some idiot spammed the last answer couple of thousand times). Was just trying to keep the topic somewhat lighthearted.

 

For those that were asking, by voting Yes, I meant that guides would be restricted too. And $ raised would good to improve habitat, fisheries enforcement, etc.

 

Taco has a good point about native fisheries, however in AB we rarely have the luxury. We'd have to be content classifying wild fisheries, which of course aren't necessarily the same thing, if you support the idea of classifying waters to begin with.

 

More and more people come to this province, some of them love to fish, and they love fishing for trout in mountain streams, fly or spin. Access improves, and the speed in which information is "shared" or "spread" (depends how you feel) makes me feel like some sort of changes will come eventually, whether we spearhead them or not.

 

Anyways, keep the votes and the thoughtful replies coming.

 

Smitty

P.S. I still like cake.