Whirling Disease Found Down By Mouth Of Highwood

[monger]

Samples are coming in.

Also in the Elbow.

 

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/whirling-disease/alberta-2016/eng/1473443992952/1473443993551

 

I wonder how long it has been here?

 

 

Some talk of doing a DNA analysis to find an origin. Perhaps a student will take up this project

[bcubed]

Not surprised bout the Elbow, since it was in Lott Creek (hrmm...wonder where that came from..)

 

Samples are coming in.

Also in the Elbow.

 

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/whirling-disease/alberta-2016/eng/1473443992952/1473443993551

 

I wonder how long it has been here?

 

 

Some talk of doing a DNA analysis to find an origin. Perhaps a student will take up this project

 

Could they get multiple DNA samples, and be able to figure out the time and relationship between them (from my very limited genetics course)?

 

I suspect its now everywhere in southern alberta, if it was in the Bow.. No way it's not being transferred by humans and animals by this point.

[SilverDoctor]

Here is a Google map I created showing most of the infected areas. We should take pains to clean all equipment between not only bodies of water but also Section of stream.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18h9C-q7sPbWPyecGwSDiK4Vgl04&usp=sharing

[fishteck]

SilverDoctor: Great Map

[monger]

I wonder if they will do the the Oldman/Liv and then the Castle . Migrating fish will have taken it up the Highwood all ready

Fernie guys will be excited if they look in the Elk I imagine

[BurningChrome]

I wonder if they will do the the Oldman/Liv and then the Castle .

I'd have to guess they already have and are maybe waiting for test results.

 

 

Fernie guys will be excited if they look in the Elk I imagine

If it's in the Oldman drainage it has to be in the Elk and tribs. Way too many people from both sides of the divide jump back and forth.

[jpinkster]

The debate on how and when it got here is an unproductive one. It won't change the fact that WD is here and we are going to have to deal with it. The best way forward at this point is doing everything we can to mitigate the impacts and stop further spread. This should be a pretty sobering moment for anyone interested in our fisheries.

[Dangus]

Of course it's important to know when it got here. If they just found wd on the Madison yesterday, they'd be assuming populations are in trouble; whereas the opposite is true.

Also important to know how it got here; although difficult (if not impossible?) to determine. If it were anglers, it may indicate more education or barriers are needed. If it was a bird (despite the number of anglers over a period of decades) perhaps there was enough education, or anglers don't pose a significant threat of transport (theoretically, for argument).

All we can do is make sure that we're not transporting anything to streams that are clean or haven't been tested yet. Way too early to begin mourning.

[BurningChrome]

Of course it's important to know when it got here. If they just found wd on the Madison yesterday, they'd be assuming populations are in trouble; whereas the opposite is true.

Also important to know how it got here; although difficult (if not impossible?) to determine. If it were anglers, it may indicate more education or barriers are needed. If it was a bird (despite the number of anglers over a period of decades) perhaps there was enough education, or anglers don't pose a significant threat of transport (theoretically, for argument).

All we can do is make sure that we're not transporting anything to streams that are clean or haven't been tested yet. Way too early to begin mourning.

I think the best course of action right now is to assume that it's new until proven otherwise. Take all the necessary precautions so as not to spread it further. Let the biologists figure out when and how it got here in the meantime since nobody on a fly fishing forum is likely to solve that.

[jpinkster]

Of course it's important to know when it got here. If they just found wd on the Madison yesterday, they'd be assuming populations are in trouble; whereas the opposite is true.

Also important to know how it got here; although difficult (if not impossible?) to determine. If it were anglers, it may indicate more education or barriers are needed. If it was a bird (despite the number of anglers over a period of decades) perhaps there was enough education, or anglers don't pose a significant threat of transport (theoretically, for argument).

All we can do is make sure that we're not transporting anything to streams that are clean or haven't been tested yet. Way too early to begin mourning.

The when and the how doesn't change our reaction to it. The only course of action is making sure we aren't transporting WD to other systems. In that sense, the when and the how is irrelevant.

[Swede]

Does anybody know if there testing west central Alberta streams.

North,South Raven the Rams,Clearwater and Red Deer River??

[Dangus]

Of course it does. If it was here 20 years ago, my reaction will be of relief. If it was here 2 years ago, my reaction will be worried. 😛

[jpinkster]

That's a pretty complacent attitude to have. Regardless of how long it has been here, we can't let our guard down. Negligence is likely how it got here in the first place. Breathing a sigh of relief suggests to some that we don't need to take this seriously. Whether it has been 20 years or 2 months, our response can't be any different.

[Dangus]

what are you talking about? If it was here for 20 years, any impact that it would have had has most likely taken place and an equilibrium would be reached. So yes, I'd breath a sigh of relief and reasonably assume most our fisheries are not likely to Be negatively impacted by wd any more than what we see now. In fact, things could possibly be improving.

 

Like I said, until all waterbodies are tested, we'll have to treat them as if they're not yet contaminated. Not sure how that is complacent. I'm just not crying before I know I've been dumped.

[jpinkster]

What I'm talking about is the generally complacent attitude we have had when it comes to invasives in this province. The proliferation of invasives is tied directly to a dismissive attitude towards proper gear cleaning by a lot of water users. The fact that we failed to be more diligent 20 years ago doesn't excuse us from being more diligent now or in the future.

 

Would it be better if WD has already been here for 20 years? Sure. But I fail to see what value debating that point adds to the conversation. Whether it has been here for 20 years or 2 months might matter to biologists, but it shouldn't matter to the average user. The only point that matters for the average Joe is clean your junk.

[jpinkster]

When we start making suggestions without proof that the ecosystem have already adapted to deal with WD, we open the door for complacency.

[danhunt]

With respect to the DNA sampling, I could be wrong but I think it would depend on the rate of genetic mutation. If you knew the rate of mutation and you knew the average time it took for the organism to produce a new generation I think you could work backwards, but you would also need a "common ancestor" to determine where to start measuring the mutations from. That said, if they are hoping to trace the parasite back to it's point of origin then I would have to guess that the biologists involved aren't anticipating that there has been any significant changes.

 

I think Bron has a point - knowing how long the parasite has been in a system could be beneficial in that old information could be reviewed to try and determine what impact it may have had in the past, how quickly it is spreading and how the impact changes over time. Using that kind of information we could better predict what impact there would be in the future and how to best manage the fishery going forward. That said, Pinkster has a point as well - consider Yellowstone. Whirling disease was first detected in that part of the world in 1998 and this summer there was a new outbreak that resulted in a fish kill and closed the river to all water sports.

[jpinkster]

Bow River Chapter just made this post on Facebook with regards to this article:

http://www.rmoutlook.com/article/Whirling-disease-an-ongoing-issue-20161215

 

Some very interesting comments from the fisheries biologists that are working directly on the outbreak of whirling disease (WD) in Alberta.
- Fish originally detected in Johnson Lake were seen to have the black tails that is an indicator of WD. The symptom has not been spotted elsewhere in the park, even among fishes that have tested positive for WD.
- Only fish with high levels of infection show all symptoms of WD together (blackened tails, "whirling" swim patterns").
- There could be potential closures in areas where we have pure native populations of trout species, especially species that are considered species at risk (westslope cutthroat as one).
- Brown trout were found in Johnson Lake in 2011 which suggests people are illegally introducing fish into bodies of water.
- It is unknown how high mortality rates will be here in Alberta. Biologists suggest WD has been in the province for a number of years now.
- In the past WD was taken very seriously in Alberta. Assessments in the late 1990s and 2000 declared the province WD free. The monitoring was discontinued which biologists are suggesting may have been a bad move.
- Since the initial confirmation of WD in Johnson Lake more than 200 sites in six watersheds have been tested as of October. This includes the eastern slopes, aquaculture facilities and fish farms. Results are still pending on many of these.
- Restricting the spread of WD can be as simple as limiting the use of felt-soled waders and boots by anglers. Spores can remain in damp felt for an extended period of time and could pose a risk for introduction into other systems.

It is important that WD is taken very seriously by all parties. We look forward to further comment and guidance from biologists that are working diligently on this file.

 

Want to know what should drive most responsible river users nuts? Our government historically bred complacency when it came to our fisheries. We proudly proclaimed to the world in the late 1990s/early 2000s that "ALBERTA IS WD FREE, OMG!". Shortly after that, we stopped testing for WD. 15 years later, WD is now present in some of our major fisheries. We should be asking some serious questions about this, because that attitude is entirely unacceptable.

[jgib01]

Whether the decision was fueled by complacency, disinterest, or something else, hindsight would probably tell us that stopping the testing outright was a mistake. I would suggest though, that we not confuse the curiosity expressed by some folks here as complacency or lack of concern for stewardship. I think in this day and age, we often use the term complacency interchangeably with disinterest, probably incorrectly so (you could say a lot of things about a lot of people here, but disinterest ain't one of 'em!). In the short couple of years I've spent on this forum, I've been very impressed with the vast majority of members here who are genuinely and adamantly interested in stewardship. I have learned much from the information, opinions and passion you all provide... thanks for that!

[BurningChrome]

I think Bron has a point - knowing how long the parasite has been in a system could be beneficial in that old information could be reviewed to try and determine what impact it may have had in the past, how quickly it is spreading and how the impact changes over time. Using that kind of information we could better predict what impact there would be in the future and how to best manage the fishery going forward.

Agreed, but I think you have to triage the situation and first figure out where it currently is then stop any further spread before you worry about tracing it back and all that.

 

That said, Pinkster has a point as well - consider Yellowstone. Whirling disease was first detected in that part of the world in 1998 and this summer there was a new outbreak that resulted in a fish kill and closed the river to all water sports.

Just to clarify, the outbreak on the Yellowstone this year was not whirling disease; it was a parasite that led to proliferative kidney disease (PKD).

[BurningChrome]

- Restricting the spread of WD can be as simple as limiting the use of felt-soled waders and boots by anglers. Spores can remain in damp felt for an extended period of time and could pose a risk for introduction into other systems.

What are they waiting for then? Ban it. They've had months to do it. I know that Country Pleasures has decided to stop selling felts, hopefully other shops will step up and follow suit.

[fishteck]

I for one have been of the opinion that the Bow River fishery has been slowly dying for many years. Regardless of flood, high temperatures, removal of pollutants by water treatment upgrade and an ever increasing number of anglers using varying degrees of catch-and-release, the trout populations on the Bow River has steadily been decreasing over the years. In addition there has been an artifact that has seen various classes (age) of fish disappearing from the fishery over the years.

 

This year we have seen an unusual increase in large rainbow and brown trout. Many anglers and me included have caught the largest specimen of Bow River trout. Over 30 years of guiding and fishing the Bow River I have not seen this before. Before the presence of WD was reported in the province, I was asking for an explanation for this occurrence from those individuals who like to think they have an answer for everything. I never received a plausible explanation!

 

Could sub-clinical whirling disease have been out there for 10 or more years impacting spawning success and in combination with environmental stress killed off younger fish? No science on my part, just an old farts observation!

[danhunt]

I think we're on the same page, but I think we're maybe coming at it from different angles. In terms of transmitting the parasite, the "free love" era of water sports in Alberta is over. From now on, any time we get our gear wet we have to assume that we are carrying the parasite and take appropriate steps ("they won't get the spins if you wash your fins"). That's a given, otherwise there is no hope of stopping the spread, only slowing it. To my way of thinking, whether or not the water body has actually been shown to have the parasite only matters in how they manage the fishery from there on out.

 

Fair point on the PKD, I didn't realize it was similar but different - thanks for the heads up.

 

Sorry, meant to quote BurningChrome's post.

[Dangus]

I for one have been of the opinion that the Bow River fishery has been slowly dying for many years. Regardless of flood, high temperatures, removal of pollutants by water treatment upgrade and an ever increasing number of anglers using varying degrees of catch-and-release, the trout populations on the Bow River has steadily been decreasing over the years. In addition there has been an artifact that has seen various classes (age) of fish disappearing from the fishery over the years.

 

This year we have seen an unusual increase in large rainbow and brown trout. Many anglers and me included have caught the largest specimen of Bow River trout. Over 30 years of guiding and fishing the Bow River I have not seen this before. Before the presence of WD was reported in the province, I was asking for an explanation for this occurrence from those individuals who like to think they have an answer for everything. I never received a plausible explanation!

 

Could sub-clinical whirling disease have been out there for 10 or more years impacting spawning success and in combination with environmental stress killed off younger fish? No science on my part, just an old farts observation!

Ever see that big tank a couple km below the highwood come alive at last light? There are a ton of 4-10" fish in there. Big caddis hatch this summer, I would conservatively estimate 2-3 rises per second from the head to the Tailout as far as you could see. Literally boiling! (Gives me hope)

 

Maybe it's just the number of big fish has risen and they push the tiddlers out of the lies that most people are targeting? As the fish started to hole up, I was catching a fair number of small (<10") fish left over in summer water.

 

Hopefully it won't just crash in a couple years when these hog bows go to the big riffle in the sky. Although, could be some ginormous browns come out of that.

[fishteck]

Bron:

I believe your observations are just wishful thinking - hoping that the Bow will recover from years of decline. As you have said, there are pools with large numbers of juvenile fish in them especially in the area downstream of the Highwood. Over the years they have always been there.

 

What is of concern to me and many others who have been around for years is the absence of any number of fish in very good stretches of the Bow. This is especially true downstream of MacKinnons. One could argue that the 2013 flood had an enormous impact of the river downstream of the Highwood. But 3 years is sufficient time for fish to repopulate that stretch of the river.

 

Sure the fish are moving to runs in the river that give them protection from predictors and fishermen alike. Often to mid-river habitat where it is not as easy to catch them. But I would still claim the the number of fish is way down over what we did see in the '90.