I Want Bigger Pike, And I Want Them Now!

[jpinkster]

I posted this in a FB group earlier, but I wanted to extend the conversation to this community as well (apologies for the redundancy):

 

So...this is something I've been curious about for a long time.
I've been fishing for pike in southern Alberta for pretty much my entire life. I've seen many of my favorite fisheries deteriorate due to over-fishing and over-harvesting in the last 10-15 years.
I look at the creation of some of our "trophy" trout lakes that have zero keep limits, and I get kind of jealous. I know there are a few people in this space that were involved in making that happen, so my question is: What would it take to make something similar happen for a local pike lake or two? The idea of a trophy fishery within a few hours of Calgary is certainly interesting.

[albertatrout]

You already have one out by Blackie, limit 1 pike over 100 cm. Unofficially, there will be many more very soon as catch and release regulations are apparently on the way. Many of the southern reservoirs are scheduled to go catch and release this year due to collapse. I think angling pressure is key, but there has also been big changes in water quality, habitat, and water management which have token tolls. Hopefully reg changes aren't the only "improvements" coming.

 

For regulation input, I would recommend contacting the area manager for where you fish, state why you would like to see a trophy fishery, and see what they have to say. A TU club had some sway in having the Police Outpost regulations changed, but that club no longer considers itself a "fishing club" so a new angle may be needed in terms of finding some support to get behind the idea. I'm not sure if there's a fly-fishing club you could get on board with (if there is down south I'd love to hear about it, would be great to be involved with) but changes generally occur when numbers/supporters are behind them. Historically, big fish and wildlife reg changes have been brought forward by AFGA or TU clubs so that mode seems to work well.

 

Also, try some lesser known/ less-pressured lakes. I have found the pike fishing to be way better than when I was a kid and the limit was 10. There are lots of lakes with next to no fishing pressure in Alberta, believe it or not. Online resources have really concentrated pressure and lakes that aren't mentioned are often still very very good.

 

Good luck to you!

[jpinkster]

I really appreciate that insight.

 

I think you touched on another issue that I've been talking about for awhile. I shake my head at "1 pike over 100cm". Why are we allowing the harvest of some of our biggest spawning age fish? It would make more sense to me if we had a more progressive slot size system that kept those big spawners in the population.

[danhunt]

I don't actually know what is good for managaging a trophy pike fishery, in the sense of does zero retention = hammer handles or 25lb+ 'gators? That said, I would suspect you're on the right track with a slot size, jpinkster. I also wouldn't be surprised if, if/when these fisheries recover, there was a tag system put in place like they currently have for walleye on certain waters.

[SilverDoctor]

When I sat in on the Fisheries round-table last week, a 0 limit is in the planning for many lakes withing the next couple of years.

[albertatrout]

I really appreciate that insight.

 

I think you touched on another issue that I've been talking about for awhile. I shake my head at "1 pike over 100cm". Why are we allowing the harvest of some of our biggest spawning age fish? It would make more sense to me if we had a more progressive slot size system that kept those big spawners in the population.

I think part of it is you don't need those spawner's over 100 cm if there are a pile of pike a bit smaller than that around. Therefore, some harvest is allowed to appease the catch and keep fisherman. Also, it's very simple for the managers and doesn't take a lot of thinking/research/effort to know it will prevent overharvest of the general population. I don't have the data in front of me, but pound for pound pike lay a ton of eggs, exponentially more than trout/ salmon. Pike age class success seems to have more to do with optimal conditions (lots of flooded grass, good flows, good temps) rather than how many fish spawn each year. Think, if you have high success due to perfect conditions and a 10 lb fish lays 200,000+ eggs that's a lot of recruitment. Ever notice how many young pike are around following big floods? Or right after a new reservoir is flooded? That's how their ecology works. Part of the reason reg change discussions worry me is there are very obvious habitat issues that could be dealt with. Changes in reservoir levels late in the fall followed by no increases until late spring is very bad for pike, they need flooded veg or good aquatic veg for high success, and they generally spawn before the mountain runoff comes off the slopes. As these fisheries are considered bonus and irrigation is #1, there are limited solutions. I think there could be success with creation of pike spawning areas adjacent to some reservoirs (utilizing small inlets) which may help a lot more than one time fishing regulation changes. It has been done before with good success in other areas. Just another perspective. I do find the pike fishing to still be very good in most lake's I fish but will admit we don't see 30lbers like we used to. A few catch and release pike lakes would be great but it will be tough to get support from locals across much of the south unless harvest opportunities are provided elsewhere.

[bcubed]

But really, if they changed the regs to say 1 under 60, that would automatically start protecting the big mama's, while still allowing for harvest. Or would they think that every little dude is gonna get taken and there would be no large fish to still spawn? I know its a bit of a normal distribution, but man getting a fish over 100 cm should be the norm, not the oddity.

[jpinkster]

I think part of it is you don't need those spawner's over 100 cm if there are a pile of pike a bit smaller than that around. Therefore, some harvest is allowed to appease the catch and keep fisherman. Also, it's very simple for the managers and doesn't take a lot of thinking/research/effort to know it will prevent overharvest of the general population. I don't have the data in front of me, but pound for pound pike lay a ton of eggs, exponentially more than trout/ salmon. Pike age class success seems to have more to do with optimal conditions (lots of flooded grass, good flows, good temps) rather than how many fish spawn each year. Think, if you have high success due to perfect conditions and a 10 lb fish lays 200,000+ eggs that's a lot of recruitment. Ever notice how many young pike are around following big floods? Or right after a new reservoir is flooded? That's how their ecology works. Part of the reason reg change discussions worry me is there are very obvious habitat issues that could be dealt with. Changes in reservoir levels late in the fall followed by no increases until late spring is very bad for pike, they need flooded veg or good aquatic veg for high success, and they generally spawn before the mountain runoff comes off the slopes. As these fisheries are considered bonus and irrigation is #1, there are limited solutions. I think there could be success with creation of pike spawning areas adjacent to some reservoirs (utilizing small inlets) which may help a lot more than one time fishing regulation changes. It has been done before with good success in other areas. Just another perspective. I do find the pike fishing to still be very good in most lake's I fish but will admit we don't see 30lbers like we used to. A few catch and release pike lakes would be great but it will be tough to get support from locals across much of the south unless harvest opportunities are provided elsewhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong on the ecology here, but don't pike hatch much more quickly than other species as well? I heard that it can be a matter of a few short weeks between an egg being lain and it hatching.

[jksnijders]

I can think of several just off the top of my head within a couple hours drive of here.. Pike hatch faster based on water temp, the warmer the better, something I read in what I figured to be a reputable source. The worst part about the larger end of the gene pool fish is that there are no shortage of people that just can't release a 40" plus fish. Not sure why that is but must be some sort of hero aspect or something. I grew up in a pike area and saw it often growing up, which I found ridiculous. They aren't worth a damn to eat out of warm water anyway, and the amount of eggs produced by large females per pound of body weight is exponential. They're a great game fish on fly or spinning gear and should be treated accordingly, not much in this area beats a 40" plus fish in shallow water hitting a streamer with bad intentions. Unfortunately they haven't often been viewed as such, which is pretty sad.

[albertatrout]

Correct me if I'm wrong on the ecology here, but don't pike hatch much more quickly than other species as well? I heard that it can be a matter of a few short weeks between an egg being lain and it hatching.

Yes, hence why I think there is a ton of opportunity for enhancement options. An area does not need to be flooded for very long before you have little pike running around. I have seen wheat fields full of little pike following short term flooding, thick stubble basically replicates optimal spawning habitat. I think small wetlands with simple fish ladders could be used on many of the lake's having a tough time. Canals often have enough spring runoff (at least every couple years) that efforts could be made to improve recruitment. Pike really don't need much.

 

As for the 1 under 60 cm idea, I believe the official government response has been too many would be retained meaning no bigger size classes. I don't fully agree, but as it hasn't been tested in Alberta we also can't say it's not a correct assumption. There are much more intensively pressured lakes south of the border that support heavy harvest, I personally think it would be a great idea to at least try in some systems. At this point I think limits overall are too generous, who really needs to keep 3 big pike, 10 burbot, or even 5 stocked trout a day? And at what cost to the resource managers? The government needs to look at management costs as well as cost/ recreational hour (where quality fisheries would shine). If you keep a limit of rainbows from a stocked pond more than once a year your fishing license will not cover the cost of those fish (stocking cost alone, management costs aside). There's issue's across the board and I think you're hitting the nail right on the head asking why other options are rarely tried.

[troutfriend]

There has been a bunch of research in this province to show that slot sizes tend to fail as fish never make it through the slot. Most pike and walleye fisheries in the north east have been studied and experimented with specific regulations. If you want a larger fish fishery, select one that is further than 1.5 hours from a major city, and ideally it does not have paved access... Ie low fishing pressure. I am sure tons of people will have ideas come right to mind that break this guideline, but if a lake has this going for it, and it has good productivity, then it may have a chance. If you want amazing fishing for big pike within an hours drive of a city, then the best option may be having a train derail into it, that seems to have had a great improvement on that amazing fishery (0 possession).

[danhunt]

There has been a bunch of research in this province to show that slot sizes tend to fail as fish never make it through the slot. Most pike and walleye fisheries in the north east have been studied and experimented with specific regulations.

 

Good point!

[Villageidiot]

There has been a bunch of research in this province to show that slot sizes tend to fail as fish never make it through the slot. Most pike and walleye fisheries in the north east have been studied and experimented with specific regulations. If you want a larger fish fishery, select one that is further than 1.5 hours from a major city, and ideally it does not have paved access... Ie low fishing pressure. I am sure tons of people will have ideas come right to mind that break this guideline, but if a lake has this going for it, and it has good productivity, then it may have a chance. If you want amazing fishing for big pike within an hours drive of a city, then the best option may be having a train derail into it, that seems to have had a great improvement on that amazing fishery (0 possession).

 

But then ESRD has to dump walleye into it by the boat loads to try to re establish them, and out compete the pike and bring the pike sizes down a couple notches. Not to say that's the only problem with Wabamun right now, because it is facing other issues than just the intense walleye introduction. For example, another reason we're seeing pike growth rates slow, is with the warm water discharge being cut back, with one of the plants being practically shut down, the lakes temperatures have changed. We used to be able to fly fish in the winter up here in Edmonton for trophy sized pike. That must have been fun.

 

Many factors did help it gain "trophy" status, however the warm water discharge leads me to believe that it was an likely an anomaly. Catch and Release did help though.

[BrianR]

I am not a pike fisherman.I have been told that it is very exciting.A couple of things ,that helped create QSF.No bait,Limiting the catch[ie]Beaver lk. 1 over 1 under 15" .Resulted in fisher's intent on .Well I got to get a under15,then a over15".The reg .change,saved this fishery imo.The philoshy of fisheries,is there has to be an ability to harvest fish ,at some point..

The other thing to note is that there is no longer thousands of lbs. of fish,falling prey to commercial nets.ESRD. really needs to control the treaty Indians catch/keep limits.Ie what is subsistence in amounts.When the reefers are full ?

[albertatrout]

Came across this today, is this what happens when regulation changes are the only tool being used? Pigeon was a 1 pike over 100 cm lake, now going catch and release as there has not been an improvement. Rhetorical question, should we not be looking at water quality and habitat as well when a species is struggling?

 

http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/fisheries-management/prairies-area-fisheries-management/documents/PigeonLakeFisheriesRegulationChange-Jan-2016.pdf

[eagleflyfisher]

Came across this today, is this what happens when regulation changes are the only tool being used? Pigeon was a 1 pike over 100 cm lake, now going catch and release as there has not been an improvement. Rhetorical question, should we not be looking at water quality and habitat as well when a species is struggling?

 

I've noticed that one of the newer lakes Twin Vally come mid summer has the biggest algae ( grass clipping ) blooms I've ever seen.

This is about mid summer and continues how long I'm not sure.

It is so thick that at the launch it looks like green enamel paint.

As I understand this comes mainly from low land runoff from surrounding farmland & what ever chemicals are used ?

Great looking lake it terms of feature, depth etc. but doesn't seem to be producing well.

I read an article once that spoke of the plight of one of the Great Lakes due this exact thing & was the the absolute edge of collapse.

The powers that be implemented a strict controll over what was being discharged into the lake & in a very short while brought it back.

I'm an avid pike fisherman & have often spoke of a trophy lake with my friends.

As Alberta said its time to explore some less pressured water.

I already have a few in mind.

[albertatrout]

There are some great pike fisheries that are not well known, that is key. There is something to be said for low pressure fisheries. I have looked at the Twin Valley situation a lot. The water quality issues would be a huge undertaking to correct but in my opinion not enough effort has been expended so far. Cows and Fish has had some involvement up there, but it's a big system and nothing will be achieved unless Frank Lake's water quality could be improved as well (if anyone else has been to the Littlebow downstream of that point they would know what I mean). If there was will in the form of full government support (and money) riparian easements, wetland monitoring, and fencing could achieve a lot of good. I know of some big fish taken by fly in the Littlebow system, the potential is there. Lake whites/ other forage could help upstream of Twin as well but it would be nice to see efforts on the habitat front first.