toolman Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 The Bow has had shoreline water temps in the high teens and low 20's C for the past month and a half and also many decades in the past, without negative effect to the fishery. I've seen even lower, warmer flows than we are currently experiencing. Suddenly it's a crisis. From my own personal observations and the fishing reports that I get on a regular basis from colleages and professionals in the industry, there has not been any kind of mass die off. Just another normal season. The fish are fat and full of fight as usual with no issue with trout recovering quickly if released immediately. The Bow has plenty of adequate structure for the fish to thrive in spite of perceptions that the fishery is in crisis. The impacts of c&r fishing on the Bow are negligible. What needs to happen is the Municipalities need to enact water restrictions and we need to shut down the irrigation canal to increase flow on the Bow. That's what the fish need... F'ing water. There's some logic for ya. 2
bcubed Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Toolman, is that a P. Biol designation I see behind your name? Figures. Ever wonder if that attitude is what makes it just so challenging to do a closure like this. You're right, we haven't seen a massive kill... Would you prefer for it to happen, then complain about how no one did anything? Curious when you saw lower and warmer flows in the first week of August 2
Harps Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Before Bearspaw, flows in the Bow dropped to under 20 cms quite regularly. It also wasn't a great brown and bow fishery. Bearspaw was built in '54 (where the gap in data is found). The Bio's are doing what they feel necessary to protect the fishery. Yes, there are other opinion on what to do, yes this will affect other fisheries, and yes there are other factors - but it is an action. My only grief is with the closures is the suddenness and that Montana Style Hoot Owl Fishing Restrictions were not applied to all Alberta flowing waters in July when it was clear that temperatures would become a significant risk to releasing fish without mortality. But then again, I'm not sure if the regulation allows for that and we don't have the strong self-regulating fishing community that they have in Montana (despite action taken by many on here). Montana has the tax base and political will to prioritize fisheries and tourism, unlike here. We took some really stupid and destructive action in the past, but the fishery survived. Action like this demonstrates that we are learning from mistakes and would rather not deal with the risk of increased mortality in a Calgary treasure. ... For people's own interest - historic and current flow data is readily available:http://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/report/graph_images/ag.05BH004...0.0.0.0.0.0.e.png1439415980 No temp data with this... but Minimum flows in the Bow have been recorded for decades. How the minimum quartiles are calculated is a question that I couldn't answer (i.e date ranges) (You might have to search the Water Survey data for this gauge: Annual Maximum and Minimum Daily Discharge Graph for BOW RIVER AT CALGARY (05BH004)) - http://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/report/report_e.html?mode=Graph&type=h2oArc&stn=05BH004&dataType=Annual+Extremes¶meterType=Flow&year=2014&scale=log Current flows (http://www.environment.alberta.ca/apps/basins/DisplayData.aspx?Type=Figure&BasinID=8&DataType=1&StationID=RBOWCALG) 4
BigFoamy Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Just drove over the bow at douglasdale and saw a guy flyfishing
Vitalshok Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Just called rap three people fishing at glenmore two fly fishers and one spinner guy.Was going to stop and just tell them about the closure but needed to get the little one home to bed. Hope at least they get a education and not a ticket.
bcubed Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 The signs at glenmore are a bit pathetic, not noticeable unless you're looking for them
eagleflyfisher Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 So with regards to the canals, I've heard that they are really full ? I know irrigation needs to happens but can they be held back any ? Leave some more water in the river. 1
LastBoyScout Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Sad state, reminds me of the early eighties here in the deep south. I don't know what the Bow was like then but we had zero flows in many tributaries for up to six weeks and it was a very hard few years. There were watering restrictions but I can tell you the priorities were #1 people #2 livestock #3 crops and there was no #4. the eastern small reservoirs were little stinking mud holes and the Oldman was a trickle at Lethbridge. I love the closures but it has had terrible execution and I can't see any way they will be able to prosecute anyone for fishing on the closed waters. The addition of special care areas only confuses the issue as ethical fishermen practice special care at all times. The ethical informed fishermen will stay home and the slightly less ethical fishermen will be impossible to prosecute.
LastBoyScout Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 I also think the Forestries will be closed soon certainly before the long weekend so those areas will get some reprieve then.
Vagabond Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Just called rap three people fishing at glenmore two fly fishers and one spinner guy.Was going to stop and just tell them about the closure but needed to get the little one home to bed. Hope at least they get a education and not a ticket.I took a drive down to FC Bankside around 9pm,and there was a fella just getting out of his waders.Told him it's closed and he said"yea,someone else just told me."Not a minute later the fish cops pulled up while were BSing....he indicated that they weren't really giving fines at this point,just trying to get the word out and asked us to spread the word. The signage there is pathetic....a little 8x10" sign plastered on the permanent Rock Snot sign....in fact,the guy fishing was parked directly in front of it and didn't see it til long after the fact (of fishing,being warned,and leaving river)when I actually had to walk up to within 8ft away to read it.
RedBeard Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Anyone get some mountain stream temp readings lately?
BurningChrome Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Anyone get some mountain stream temp readings lately? I don't think anyone is willing to admit that they've been fishing out there for fear of getting ragged on.
jpinkster Posted August 13, 2015 Author Posted August 13, 2015 I talked to a biologist who is up there today that is doing some stream level/temperature checks on the Upper Oldman. Results may influence further closures, but we'll see I suppose.
RedBeard Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 I don't think anyone is willing to admit that they've been fishing out there for fear of getting ragged on. Well that's why I'm curious.. Are they really that high? They likely are, but it would be interesting to know
bcubed Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 I wasn't fishing, but the oldman last week at 22 was quite toasty on the way through (was letting the dog go for a dip)
RedBeard Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Well that's why I'm curious.. Are they really that high? They likely are, but it would be interesting to know Yes they are hah. Incredible that the Oldman/liv are not closed with those temps I wasn't fishing, but the oldman last week at 22 was quite toasty on the way through (was letting the dog go for a dip)
bcubed Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 I suspect you'll see more closures by next week 1
bigbowtrout Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Close everything until Sept. Then compensate all the registered Guides.
bcubed Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Compensate all the registered Guides. so 0 dollars for everyone but Uber? 2
CPs Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 The Bow has had shoreline water temps in the high teens and low 20's C for the past month and a half and also many decades in the past, without negative effect to the fishery. I've seen even lower, warmer flows than we are currently experiencing. Suddenly it's a crisis. From my own personal observations and the fishing reports that I get on a regular basis from colleages and professionals in the industry, there has not been any kind of mass die off. Just another normal season. The fish are fat and full of fight as usual with no issue with trout recovering quickly if released immediately. The Bow has plenty of adequate structure for the fish to thrive in spite of perceptions that the fishery is in crisis. The impacts of c&r fishing on the Bow are negligible. What needs to happen is the Municipalities need to enact water restrictions and we need to shut down the irrigation canal to increase flow on the Bow. That's what the fish need... F'ing water. There's some logic for ya. As a matter of policy, we pretty much never respond to any opinion put forward on this forum, but this one cannot be ignored. Toolman, could you let us know when you have seen lower flow volumes at this time of year, as of this morning it was at 58 cms. And although no one can say that water temperatures haven't gotten in and around the low 20 celsius mark in years past, never can I remember a sustained duration of above critical temps. This is one of the factors that led to the ASRD decision on temporary closures. I can't believe that someone who proclaims to spend as much time as you utilizing a specific resource would even consider publicly posting dissent when the fishery is seeing a threat it has never seen before. ASRD gets our full support on this decision, as well as any further steps they deem necessary to protect our fisheries. Shame on you! Mike Gifford Country Pleasures 8
BurningChrome Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Close everything until Sept. Keep the closures based on defensible science otherwise we'll get random closures (or lack of closures) for random reasons. 1
billie Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 I'd be curious what a straw poll would say about folks who were not planning to venture out to the places listed under "not yet closed", but are now considering doing so because of closures of their regular beats. ................. Think I will put the gear away pending the cooler weather (and hopefully a tiny bit of rain) that's supposed to be on our way. I have cancelled my fishing this weekend, I was headed to the "warning" streams until the announcement came out. Well that's why I'm curious.. Are they really that high? They likely are, but it would be interesting to know I didn't take readings last time out but it was warm "er". It didn't seem to be excessively warm yet, but definitely moving up. Still cooled the waders as you walked in. I quit the Bow quite some time ago and now have suspended my fishing for now. I'm heading out on a scouting trip for future fishing locales so I'll take some temp readings on stream "X" .
bigbowtrout Posted August 13, 2015 Posted August 13, 2015 Keep the closures based on defensible science otherwise we'll get random closures (or lack of closures) for random reasons. Maybe I needed to add a few more smile faces. 1
jpinkster Posted August 13, 2015 Author Posted August 13, 2015 As a matter of policy, we pretty much never respond to any opinion put forward on this forum, but this one cannot be ignored. Toolman, could you let us know when you have seen lower flow volumes at this time of year, as of this morning it was at 58 cms. And although no one can say that water temperatures haven't gotten in and around the low 20 celsius mark in years past, never can I remember a sustained duration of above critical temps. This is one of the factors that led to the ASRD decision on temporary closures. I can't believe that someone who proclaims to spend as much time as you utilizing a specific resource would even consider publicly posting dissent when the fishery is seeing a threat it has never seen before. ASRD gets our full support on this decision, as well as any further steps they deem necessary to protect our fisheries. Shame on you! Mike Gifford Country Pleasures Thanks for this Mike. I mentioned this to a few other guides/shops on another space, but I'm so grateful to see how you folks in the industry really understand the bigger picture here.
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