How Honest Should One Be?

[BRH]

We had a really good day fishing the river yesterday and, at points, caught a number of trout in front of other fishers walking and wading. On four separate occasions we were asked what we were using and how we were using it. How honest should we be?

 

I have three schools of thought regarding this.

 

First, we've spent years learning the river and the success we enjoy is a product of that experience. We have developed tactics that, quite simply, produce fishing success. We're also fishing from a drift boat. All these things give us an advantage over the average fly fisher on the Bow. But the success we enjoy is a result of time and energies spent to learn and fish the river. I'm not sure I agree with giving all that experience away to somebody I don't know, somebody whose fishing success I could care less about.

 

Second, I realize that any fly fisher has to have a certain amount of fishing success to enjoy the sport and stick with it, and helping other fishers attain success is good for the sport of fly fishing. As one who knows the river and how to catch the trout that inhabit her waters, sharing information on how to attain fishing success would certainly be good for the sport of fly fishing.

 

Third, the more fishermen who enjoy success fly fishing the Bow the better it is for the Bow itself. If more fly fishers catch fish on the Bow then there will be more fly fishers fishing the Bow and in that there is political leverage to protect this resource and fishery.

 

The addendum to this is that enjoying fishing success on the Bow River for us is the norm, not the exception and that it isn't always a walk and wader asking the question ... we've been asked by folks in other boats as well.

 

I realize that the measure of fishing success is relative and what might be good to one person might be mediocre to another. For some a six fish day would be a good day of fishing. For others, including myself, a six fish day would be a dreadfully slow day of fishing. I'm not sure how to provide my perspective on what we consider to be a good day of fishing without undermining the intent of this post. At the same time, the circumstances prompting one fisher to ask another what they're using may be important. If it is then I'll provide an example.

 

So which school of thought is the correct one? How honest should we be when asked what we're using? Should we tell the person asking exactly what we're using or should it be up to him to go through the same learning curve we had to go through? In the interest of the good of the sport and the river, should we be telling him what we're using or should we jealously guard our fishing tactics? What should you tell a fisher who asks what you're using and does it make a difference who's asking?

[PeteZahut]

This is interesting and I have a very one-sided view of this. I have never understood why someone wouldn't share their experience or knowledge when asked. I can appreciate that people build experience and expertise and are proud of it but I don't see why they need to protect it. Unless you think it is a competition of some sort I just can't see the harm in helping someone out.

 

I am in no way at that level but I do well. On Friday I ran into a couple of guys on the Highwood who were new to the sport. The one guy asked me politely for help in choosing the best fly out of his box. I took a couple of minutes to show him what works for me and what he could try. I felt there was in now way any danger that helping him in this way would affect my fishing experience. I am not sure if he caught anything after that but I was happy to at least give him a bit of a start.

 

Anyways, this is a subjective question and totally up to you. I personally have no problem in letting someone know what I am using and what tactic.

[fishfreak]

I generally tell them what I'm using if they're asking nicely. I figure they're asking for a reason (new to the water, new to flyfishing, etc.), so I should help them out. I'm thankful for the people I've run into when I was starting out. Some would even offer some of their flies to me, so I've been doing the same.

 

Also, you can tell a person exactly what you're using, and he may still not have any success unless he's fishing in the right spots using the right technique. This will at least remove one of the unknowns and give him a better chance. They would still have to figure other things out.

 

[seanbritt]

Great topic. I am a firm believer in sharing information, whether it be about fishing or other things. You made two great points in #2 and #3. I would also add in a much more general sense that the root of not sharing is greed. What harm would it do sharing information about a fly or a run or a technique? Passing the information along doesn't mean that individual is going to catch more fish than you, and if so, who cares? Like you said, for the most part its not a competition. I love your third point about building up a community that cares about the resource. The best way to do that is build sportsmanship. If we all keep to ourselves (including information) then we'll come off as arrogant individuals who are self-centered and folks won't want to work together to protect what we have. However, if we help each other enjoy the amazing pastime we have then hopefully we can also help each other protect that resource.

[ÜberFly]

I've always followed my late Uncle George's lead (he was the BEST fisherman EVER!)! He always said: "never tell them what you've caught or show'em what your using" - so I always say that we've "caught a few small ones", "all on a SJW" (unless of course I know the person, then I'll be honest)

 

But that's all in good fun...

 

I try to be very helpful to new fly anglers (it's obvious who they are in most cases) and try to help them out as much as I can (that is how I've met one of my current fishing partners and now good friend - Dr. Bullet).

 

P

[birchy]

I always share. Doesn't bother me in the least. Plus I figure that there will be days when I'm the one that's asking the question.

 

As far as putting in the time and effort in order to have that knowledge to always catch fish.. I don't think that telling a person what's working at that exact time is really going to make a difference. It will work for them that day, then when they go back the next day it won't work and they still won't be able to catch fish. Whereas you will, because of your knowledge. There really is no substitute for experience on the water.. telling someone what's working isn't going to "fast track" them to the level that you're at. IMO.

 

PS - I really wish I was at the same level as guys like yourself!! haha. But I'm only in year #4 and have a LONG ways to go.

[reevesr1]

I have absolutely no problem showing what I am using. And I personally reject (and this is my personal opinion) the notion of that telling them may help them learn the river and pick up the sport is a negative. I think one of our goals should be to introduce other fishermen to the sport and help them to love it as we do. If that means more fishermen, so be it. Nothing would make me happier to know I helped create a few myself. The satisfaction one would receive from that knowledge far outweighs any increase in the number of fishermen.

 

All that said, I'm not as free with the places I fish. Probably makes me a bit of a hypocrite.

[kungfool]

And now for the downside.

 

Was at a lake in the spring catching many 2-5 pound rainbows on Chonies I tied the day before. A lady fly fisher showed up amongst the bait fishermen (who were not catching) and started casting from shore about 100 feet from where I was floating. She started to make comments about leaving some fish for everyone else to catch (jokingly). I had a chuckle and said try Chronies, black, around size 16 and offered her a couple. She said "thanks but I should have something like that in my box". After around 30 more minutes of slamming fish she still had not caught one and spoke up again saying "Ill take one of those flies now!".

 

I moved to shore and gave her 3 and said I'm getting them at 18 feet 6 inches from the bottom and its 15 feet deep where your casting (I had measured) and suggested getting down to the bottom. As soon as she rigged up and the fly sank boom fish on. I was like right on there ya go and felt good until she got it to shore. Bonk! I was like oh crap. She started catching fish every couple of minutes and bonked the first 5 that I saw. I have no problem with people keeping a fish once in a while but I felt directly responsible for these 5.

 

 

[flyfishfairwx]

On the river share, even your fishing spot, and second to last best fly of the day, share your knowledge and experiences with those that ask politely and even with those that are too shy to know that they should ask, and those that need to ask.

 

Share even with those that are too damn dumb to ask politely, or who start off rude and uneducated, Share and educate them, they may almost need it most.

 

Share most with those that do need it most and do not even know what it is that they need.

 

If I did not believe in sharing information and helping others when on the water, then I may not give this as much support as I have and can..

 

 

From the people that you share with you get more back and the people that http://projecthealingwaters.ca/ shares with will give you back more then you can imagine, give give give, share share share with these people and you will receive receive receive ...

 

 

 

But share on a web site or in a magazine - secrets NO DAMN WAY!!!!!!

 

I do write a Front Page for a web site, but and there is always a but, that one is a UK based site... http://www.sexyloops.com/index.shtml

 

You may note that I write the Friday Front Page, that is because I Fish the rest of the week and recover and tye flies on the weekend when the Web site driven, drooling, knuckle dragging wader hatch happens on the rivers ..

 

 

[BRH]

Thanks for your response Pete.

 

The harm in telling someone what you're using and how to use it is purely a selfish perception. There is the chance that one day I will encounter the individual I've helped fishing a run and I won't be able to catch a fish in that run because he's caught them as a result of what I previously shared with him.

 

A case in point. As we floated down the river yesterday we noticed 2 fellows fishing a run downstream we wanted to get out and fish. As we approached the run the 2 guys were packing up to leave. We asked if they were finished fishing there and they said they were so we could go ahead and fish it if we wanted. They said there's no fish in it anyway. We netted well over a dozen trout out of that run, only two under 20 inches. Had these two gents been people we had helped previously, we may have caught some trout but nothing like what we did. I don't feel it's a competition but I do like to catch fish and I'm reluctant to share information that may impact the number of trout I'm likely to catch. Had we openly shared our fishing tactics with them this time, there is a chance that it might come back to bite us somewhere down the road. At least, that's my thinking. Little doubt they'll be back to fish that run after watching us catch trout after trout. But I'm pretty confident that when they return and leave, I could still stop there and catch a trout or two or maybe more. Would that be because I didn't tell them how to fish it? I'm pretty sure it is. Is this selfish? Yes, but I'm out there to catch fish, that's the whole purpose of being there.

 

I salute you for helping the two gents on the Highwood and I would have likely done the same. However, I think that is a bit of a different scenario, pointing out flies in their box that might work, than being pointedly asked what you're using and how you're using it.

[Hawgstoppah]

What are you using?? LOL

 

I give as little info as possible about exactly HOW my flies are fished, but I have no trouble sharing what was used... 90% is presentation most of the time.

[Taco]

On the river share, even your fishing spot, and second to last best fly of the day, share your knowledge and experiences with those that ask politely and even with those that are too shy to know that they should ask, and those that need to ask.

 

Share even with those that are too damn dumb to ask politely, or who start off rude and uneducated, Share and educate them, they may almost need it most.

 

Share most with those that do need it most and do not even know what it is that they need.

 

If I did not believe in sharing information and helping others when on the water, then I may not give this as much support as I have and can..

 

 

From the people that you share with you get more back and the people that http://projecthealingwaters.ca/ shares with will give you back more then you can imagine, give give give, share share share with these people and you will receive receive receive ...

 

 

 

But share on a web site or in a magazine - secrets NO DAMN WAY!!!!!!

 

I do write a Front Page for a web site, but and there is always a but, that one is a UK based site... http://www.sexyloops.com/index.shtml

 

You may note that I write the Friday Front Page, that is because I Fish the rest of the week and recover and tye flies on the weekend when the Web site driven, drooling, knuckle dragging wader hatch happens on the rivers ..

 

I specially like sharin' with others about how big the tomaters get when you fertilize w/brook trout

[robert]

90% is presentation most of the time.

 

 

That's what it pretty much boils down to...

 

I've met a few new fly fishers over the years, not hard to tell which ones are trying to teach themselves. I have no problems taking my time to rig them up properly, and give them some casting lessons and a fly or two. Don't really care if they outfish me, but it sure puts a smile on my face when my little bit of assistance lands them their first ever fish on the fly.

 

I always love that look that comes with the first fish on the fly - you know the look - like they now know the true meaning of addiction

[Bigtoad]

If I was a guide on the Bow, I think I'd give them a good suggestion but if it was a fly that I knew was giving me an edge over others and giving my clients the best possible fishing experience, I don't think I'd share. That's how I would make my living and not everyone needs to know every fly that works.

 

Myself though, I try to be as helpful as I can to other fishermen, especially when they are new and/or experiencing difficulty and I am not. I would hope this good karma comes around sometime.

 

However, I should point out that I'm not always honest, especially with "friends." I have cousins that I am always competing with when fishing. When we go ice fishing for whites on Gull or Sylvan, if I catch or see a couple fairly quickly, I can bet that one of my cousins will be over in a hot second pounding on my darkhouse door demanding to see what I am using. Often, I will have a spare spool sitting there ready for just such an occasion and will tie onto it the most godly thing I can find in my box. When he demands to see what I'm using, I show him the abomination and send him on a random goose chase of fishing for the next hour. Meanwhile, I keep catching fish and pulling farther ahead and he just gets more frustrated because he thinks he is using the same thing as me and not seeing anything.

 

I don't feel bad about this either. Last spring we were at Beaver Lake and the fish were going crazy for chronies but you had to match it correctly. After my dad and I had pulled out 3 or 4 each this same cousin comes sliding over in his pontoon asking what I'm using. Graciously (this time) I cast over what I'm using into his lap so he can have a look. He picks it up, says "nice tie", and then quickly bites it off my line and speeds away! It wasn't 2 minutes that he had that tied onto his line and was into his first of several fish. Bastard! But I love fishing with him.

 

Cheers.

[flyfishfairwx]

I specially like sharin' with others about how big the tomaters get when you fertilize w/brook trout

 

I think that is a chargeable offense there TACO, letting the flesh of a game fish go to waste, who lives in Claresholm just in case any CO's are reading this..

 

Brook Trout - introduced, hardy and took advantage of good waters not used by lazy Western Native trout species (had to word that one carefully)

[reevesr1]

That's what it pretty much boils down to...

 

I've met a few new fly fishers over the years, not hard to tell which ones are trying to teach themselves. I have no problems taking my time to rig them up properly, and give them some casting lessons and a fly or two. Don't really care if they outfish me, but it sure puts a smile on my face when my little bit of assistance lands them their first ever fish on the fly.

 

I always love that look that comes with the first fish on the fly - you know the look - like they now know the true meaning of addiction

 

Perfect.

 

I'll never forget my first fish on a fly rod, and how much I loved it (I told the guide "this fish is going to cost me a lot of money!") This is after a lifetime of catching fish using more traditional techniques. If I can pass that feeling on to others, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

 

 

[jasonvilly]

A new fishermans persepective:

 

I truly appreciate all of the advice I have recieved in my 2 months of fly fishing. It all began with the course at Country Pleasures, and continued on from there. It seems I have run into many more people (on the river or in a shop) who are willing to take 5 minutes to help a guy out.

 

I agree with the position that telling someone like me what fly you are using is helpful. But as I have learned it has more to do with presentation. Case in point I was trying my hand at nymphing with a copper john (who i was directed to use by a fellow across the river from me) He was consistently pulling fish while I only managed to hook and land 2.

 

Did I impede his fish count, I don't think so, did I become an instantly better fisherman? Nope. Was I extremely excited to catch those two small rainbows. Hells yes.

 

Now as for telling me your secret spot, I don't think you need to be so liberal with that (ie go around the corner look for the big tree sticking out and fish that hole). But telling me where to park, or which parts of the river are good and which are bad is helpful. But in some aspect getting out to new spots and finding my own holes is half the fun. I have had a few days where my fishing trip turned into a great hike because I couldn't catch a fish. In some regards this challange is what keeps me going out.

 

But agian thank you to all of those who do offer advice. I never knew the ammount of stuff you have to learn when taking up this sport. There is a lot more to it than just going to a river with a rod. And it would have been 100% more daunting if all of the advice wasn't given.

 

With that being said I found the course to be highly helpful with the beginning type stuff, but now tryin to learn the more specific things such as nymphing has added more challenges, which keeps me engaged in the sport.

[BRH]

Thanks to all of you for responding.

 

fishfreak, Hawgstoppah and robert ... I would put presentation at about 40% not 90%. One of my fishing buddies is evidence of the lower rating. You can give him the right flies, tell and show him how to fish them and he still doesn't catch fish. It's kind of like the guy to stands on the bank and repeatedly false casts ... it doesn't matter how beautiful the line in the air looks ... the fish are in the water. If you're not fishing where the fish are feeding, I don't care how beautiful or accurate your presentation is, you're not going to catch fish.

 

And if telling the inquiring anglers what fly you're using isn't going to make any difference because 90% of fishing success is a result of presentation, then what does it matter what you tell them as far as the fly goes? If you tell them the fly but they don't present it properly then they aren't going to catch fish anyway so what difference does it make if you're honest about the fly you're using? Essentially you're not helping them at all. At the end of the day the inquiring angler, after having no success even after you told him the correct fly, is going to say, "we sure got a bumb stear from that guy." Personally, I'd rather not be the guy another angler considered to be one as having given a bumb stear. I think I'd prefer to be considered pompous or selfish or greedy.

 

kungfool ... I hear ya! You never know how the information you provide is going to be used or the end result of providing the info. These are people you don't know and what they do with the info you give is entirely up to them. One bad apple can ruin it for a multitude of other responsible anglers. The prospect of an individual killing even one fish because of information I've rendered is reason enough to not give that info to anyone.

 

 

[fishfreak]

All I know is that when I use the exact same flies as the guys I'm fishing with, I'll still catch twice as many fish, and I'll even let them choose which part of the pool to start at.

 

As for the Bow, I have to credit the Hawg for my success there. After fishing with him for a day, I learned so many little things and my learning curve went straight up. He doesn't fish pretty, but he catches big fish like crazy!

 

fishfreak, Hawgstoppah and robert ... I would put presentation at about 40% not 90%. One of my fishing buddies is evidence of the lower rating. You can give him the right flies, tell and show him how to fish them and he still doesn't catch fish. It's kind of like the guy to stands on the bank and repeatedly false casts ... it doesn't matter how beautiful the line in the air looks ... the fish are in the water. If you're not fishing where the fish are feeding, I don't care how beautiful or accurate your presentation is, you're not going to catch fish.

 

[ericlin0122]

I am a honest dude, but I catch no fish

[flyangler]

Perhaps sadly, I only talk to people I know. It's different for girls.

 

We did meet a couple of fellows who were fishing for "broonies" on a remote stretch of the South Castle. My more friendly husband said he thought it was unlikely they'd caught one of those. He patiently pointed out the orange slashes on the throat of the 20 incher up on the bank that they'd whacked. The three of them agreed that flies and spinners, not bait, were the way to go.

[SilverDoctor]

I often share knowledge and give away flies. Met some great people out there. I am reminded of the quote.

 

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.

Wise Phrase by Henry David Thoreau

 

 

[RussC]

For me it depends on the situation. If say I'm fishing a lake and a boat comes right up beside me and starts chucking flies in the water I was fishing then asks what I'm using. Well then he gets the cold shoulder. If on the other hand someone is nice and truely wants to learn then I will give him or her all the information I can to help them out. Many times I have been out fishing and have run across an angler having trouble. Along with giving them flies, I'll stick around until they catch fish. That actually makes me feel even better then catching fish myself.

 

If you have years of built up knowledge and pass away without telling anyone...................what good was the knowledge?

 

Russ C

[Taco]

I'm with SilverDoc, sharing is good

[brownonbow]

Mark me down for sharing the info, I had a hard enough time when I started and really appreciated any advice from those in the know. So ya any chance I can I will pass along the small bits of info I have accumulated over the years.

 

Its just such a great sport and I want those who are new to it to succeed. We all know the local flyshop could use the $