Fishing In National Parks

[ÜberFly]

So is looking at flowers within a NP but it is still "illegal" to pick (remove) said flower from a NP (or to remove any other natural object - rock, drift wood, etc.). I guess based on my own logic, since many species are not "natural" to the NP then it would be ok to remove them!!

 

P

 

 

 

Yikes... Tradition of stewartship

For many people, angling is a way of slowing down and enjoying the peacefulness that protected areas provide us. For others, it's a way of learning about aquatic environments. Whatever your motivation, enjoy your time along the lakes and rivers of the mountain national parks and help us protect this important resource.

 

 

Mining was not an acceptable activity after the creation of the Parks..and was always to be phased out however wouldn't be surprised if someday..100 years or more from now it occurs again..nothing should surprise us..who knows what is in some those rocks.

 

[trailhead]

 

 

Mining was not an acceptable activity after the creation of the Parks..and was always to be phased out however wouldn't be surprised if someday..100 years or more from now it occurs again..nothing should surprise us..who knows what is in some those rocks.

 

The mines in Banff were in place before the area that encompassed them became a park. There is a mineable lead-zinc-silver deposit in Waterton, but it won't be touched in the forseeable future. The interesting thing about it is that Parks Canada wants to preserve the natural rock and that many geological field trips are conducted there, due to the unique nature of the deposit. The unique part being that any other ore body of that type can't be studied because it's usually mined out after discovery. Oh and the original mandate of the National Parks was; for the enjoyment of people.

[SanJuanWorm]

It's called the worthless lands hypothesis.....why do you think the parks are where they are....and why was the Spray Lakes "un-parked" when they became the interest of hydroelectric projects, or something along that line. I am not exactly certain of the time frame.

 

Smitty, I think some of the contradiction you see in my posts is really how uncertain I am about the issue. Like I said, the species composition issue is really a sidebar to the discussion.

But to that end, my point is that parks are mandated to manitain ecological integrity, but the very formation of parks often had a direct negative impact on the ecological integrity (usually aquatic integrity) of the sites through the angling pressure and angler demand.

Additionally, in light of what parks are supposed to be, should we allow those pressures (which created the problem in the first place) to continue to impact the integrity of parks, and further, why should we allow an (arguably) cruel blood sport to impact fish in places which are supposed to be inherently "wild" and "pristine."

Shouldn't we allow some places to act as (here it comes) refugia? Why should caribou, sheep, grizzlies and elk be given so much more ethical consideration?

 

Comparing non-park to park is not an option to me, as they are two completely separate entities. Nearly all the fisheries in Alberta proper have been tampered with at one point or another. Some for the good, some for the bad. Non native fisheries stocking is something that's extremly location-sensitive. Do I love fishing for browns in East Dollar? Man, do I ever!!! Do I like catching brookies on the Pembina instead of grayling? Not so much...

 

 

PGK...might I ask what you are studying in college right now?

 

Just curious.

[PGK]

.

[flyfishfairwx]

NO!!!!!!!!!! :derby racer:

 

For the love of ***** **** ******* *** ******** no more non native stockings in parks or anywhere not completely contained!!!!!!!!!! No outlet lakes!!!!!

 

*twitch*

 

But But But they are native to North America !!!!!!!!

 

hahaha I agree,never said I did not, just do not agree with the extermination of the ones already here for the last 80 - 100 years....

 

I know that is not what this thread is about, but it is something that some biologists, non-biologist types would like to see..

 

Even if it would be for their own entertainment so to speak!!!

 

[troutpirate]

NO!!!!!!!!!! :derby racer:

 

For the love of ***** **** ******* *** ******** no more non native stockings in parks or anywhere not completely contained!!!!!!!!!! No outlet lakes!!!!!

 

*twitch*

 

YES!

 

trefoil lake a few years ago was a prime example of the enormous potential that still exists in these lakes.

 

no inlet stream for the lake to reproduce on its own.

 

no outlet stream for any fish to potentially move out of the lake.

 

the brookies that were relocated to this lake, by the jasper fish fairies, just got huge fast and died of old age. it was the best big brookie lake i have ever fished and spotting huge cruising brookies in +20 feet of crystal clear water in those surroundings was priceless...............

 

the only thing that got hurt was the population of scuds, chronnies, back swimmers, etc.........

 

i dont know why the most productive, beautiful, crystal clear lakes in this province have to sit fishless ,for the mistakes that were made in the 1960's.

 

at least, trefoil wasnt the only barren lake the jasper fish fairies visted.

 

 

[PGK]

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[Weedy1]

I give up.

 

Ya sure.

.

.

.

.

.

Liar

 

Go get em Kris.

[PGK]

.

[zed]

It's called the worthless lands hypothesis.....why do you think the parks are where they are....and why was the Spray Lakes "un-parked" when they became the interest of hydroelectric projects, or something along that line. I am not exactly certain of the time frame.

 

Smitty, I think some of the contradiction you see in my posts is really how uncertain I am about the issue. Like I said, the species composition issue is really a sidebar to the discussion.

But to that end, my point is that parks are mandated to manitain ecological integrity, but the very formation of parks often had a direct negative impact on the ecological integrity (usually aquatic integrity) of the sites through the angling pressure and angler demand.

Additionally, in light of what parks are supposed to be, should we allow those pressures (which created the problem in the first place) to continue to impact the integrity of parks, and further, why should we allow an (arguably) cruel blood sport to impact fish in places which are supposed to be inherently "wild" and "pristine."

Shouldn't we allow some places to act as (here it comes) refugia? Why should caribou, sheep, grizzlies and elk be given so much more ethical consideration?

 

Comparing non-park to park is not an option to me, as they are two completely separate entities. Nearly all the fisheries in Alberta proper have been tampered with at one point or another. Some for the good, some for the bad. Non native fisheries stocking is something that's extremly location-sensitive. Do I love fishing for browns in East Dollar? Man, do I ever!!! Do I like catching brookies on the Pembina instead of grayling? Not so much...

 

caribou, sheep, grizzlies and elk have to dodge cars, fish don't

[PGK]

.

[Weedy1]

Whats the point. Half the idiots out there are on the global warming bandwagon, but when it comes to a REAL issue like losing species diversity, they don't care because they only want to fish for big fish in barren lakes. It's the lalalalalalala I can't hear you and I don't care mentality, but make sure you take a bus and don't let your car idle because global warming is going to get us all. You can't fix stupid

[PGK]

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[troutpirate]

I give up.

 

give up?

 

whatever tako, you wont give up until you are pouring rotenone into the, formerly barren, unique world class fishery, that exists, upstream of the maligne canyon.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Whats the point. Half the idiots out there are on the global warming bandwagon, but when it comes to a REAL issue like losing species diversity, they don't care because they only want to fish for big fish in barren lakes. It's the lalalalalalala I can't hear you and I don't care mentality, but make sure you take a bus and don't let your car idle because global warming is going to get us all. You can't fix stupid

 

Why must you degenerate down to calling names and insulting people in general on this board?

 

Kris...debating is an art and requires patience and maturity. In light of people that don't share your opinion specifically look to those point that you do agree on and build a relationship from there. To burn bridges and destroy commonality before you get to know a person just based upon a topic is insane at the best of time. If you feel that calling people names etc. is a proper way to debate I would suggest you stop posting to threads where opinions are asked for.

 

Just because you start a thread...does not mean your single opinion is either correct or accepted by the majority of readers, posters, fishermen or tax payers.

 

If you find a couple of people are just as blocked to free thinking as yourself on a subject...the mature thing is to accept it, applaud their strength in their stand and agree to disagree.

 

Have a Merry Christmas and chill.

 

Sun

 

P.S. I see you having some valid points of debate but you lack the ability to articulate in a polite and reasonable manner. I would strongly recommend you take some toastmasters classes to gain some public thinking practice. Seriously...it does help improve communication skills.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

 

LMFAO...

 

Good one.

[McLeod]

NO!!!!!!!!!! :derby racer:

 

For the love of ***** **** ******* *** ******** no more non native stockings in parks or anywhere not completely contained!!!!!!!!!! No outlet lakes!!!!!

 

*twitch*

 

 

Really.. I don't think the Pirate said they had to be non natives..

 

What about planting Athabasca Rainbows or Bull Trout ?

 

Use the revenue from a special license for important parks projects like restablishing the Caribou !

[creekside]

Howdy all.

 

Now that things seem to have calmed down check out this link.

http://jasperweb/CurrentInfo/Jasper%20Nati...Nov_24_2009.pdf

 

 

[Taco]

link ain't workin'

[creekside]

Sorry about that.

try this one.

http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/ab/Jasper/plan/index_e.asp

 

You'll have to scroll down and find the link.

[Taco]

Enough information there for a few nights of insomnia

Thanks man,

 

 

[Pipestoneflyguy]

Last night while tying flies with a couple friends (combined experience of 81 years of living, working and angling in Banff National Park between the 4 of us BTW) I was asked why I haven't responded to this post, much to the amusement of my friends, who have long since learned the follie of debating such issues on an internet forum like this, I sometimes let my emotions determine my actions, well my response was quite simple, as my father would say, "it would be like trying to piss up a rope".

 

This site can be very frustrating,... as I understand it, the function of this type of forum is to exchange information and ideas with the overall goal of furthering knowledge truth and understanding amongst the user group, reality is that even with the substantial combined knowledge and experience present here, this site can't even get a simple fact right, such as why, or why not, a Tim Hortons does, or does not, exist in a National Park - What are the chances a discussion on an issue as astoundingly complex as the long term management and planning of a National Parks System is going to produce a quantitiy of factual information, Slim to none, and slim just left town LOL

 

Of course, that concept is a blatant over-simplification, just like many of the concepts presented within this thread. Of course, volumes of factual information are contained within, problem is how do you separate fact from fiction, seems to me that almost all logical scientific exchange here eventually devolves in philosophical debate. For the intended purpose of learning, the forum participants must have discipline, the discipline to present only what is known as factual and omit supposition and conclusion, especially that which is biased by personal opinion and belief. Of course that is somewhat impossible as I am proving by writing this post, but like many others, what I find frustrating is not that this fails to happen, but that there seems to be so little effort put towards establishing what is factual before posting.

 

If I was so inclined, I could type up a big list of factual inaccuracies within this thread but I'm not going to and here's why;

 

PGK, you haven't earned it - you started this process under the guise that you were out to learn something, yet you are so far on one side of the fence you can't see if the grass is greener on the other side or not. You are an infant in terms of your understanding of these complex issues and you make that obvious in both your content and tone, whether it is apparent to you or not you are lobbying.

 

You are, for all intents and purposes a researcher. You stopped learning the second you hopped off the fence and chose a side. You present your opinions as fact when in reality you're just standing on the shoulders of others offering personal conclusions on what you have read. Credibility comes from doing work, not just reading about it, a concept you seem to be having trouble grasping. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but a couple years of post-secondary education combined with a little time in the library and on google does not qualify you as an expert on the topic, and presenting yourself as such just comes off as niave and childish - I know people that have been deeply involved in the issues for over 40 years and have made the understanding of these issues their life work, yet wouldn't dare present themselves as confident and all knowing as you have, as a matter of fact, in my experience, the more knowledgable a person is, the less likely they are to proclaim themselves experts.

 

Your passion is admirable, but all it does in this context is make others wary of your intentions. You insult parks managers and planners and paint them all with your prejudical brush as equally incompetent, what makes this humorous, is that if you showed those folks this post, most of them would laugh say, "yeah, that guy is me 25 years ago" - futher to that, if you are as passionate about these issues as you appear to be, then someday you'll recognize that the best place to effect change is within the function of direct governance, not outside of it, as a spectator on the sidelines. Thus if you truly want to see change you must become that which you hate - welcome to the irony of life.

 

I've seen you before, you were at the G8 protest wearing a tee shirt that says "DOWN WITH THE WTO" - you took a couple university economics courses, attended a rally, and read some stuff on the internet, so of course, you know better than anyone how to solve world poverty and fix the worlds economy - OK OK so that wasn't actually you - albeit,... the only difference I see between you and that guy - is your tee-shirt says "DOWN WITH BROOK TROUT"

 

As the man said - "free you mind and you ass will follow"

[bigbowtrout]

I'm voting this the post of the year for 2009 ^^^^^^^

 

But within your great post is what I truly see as one of the biggest problem within this forum and that’s with the folks with the facts and the knowledge wont post on here because someone with zero experience or knowledge of the facts will piss all over them and then start in with the juvenile name calling and such and that truly is a shame and goes against everything this forum was and need to return to.

What we need is those that know the truths to speak up and share with the rest of us and to not sit on the sidelines and let a select few wreck it for those that could learn from such info.

The majority of those on this forum are smart enough to know the difference from those who are on here to stir the *hit and those that are on here to truly assist in educating us on the issues at hand.

 

PS why is there not a Tims in the Park

[Pipestoneflyguy]

Ha, I was hoping someone would ask - Economic feasibility, it is as simple as that - same reason McDonalds failed in Jasper, and the Wendy's and Harvey's failed in Banff.

 

Of course if I just wanted to create a buzz on the internet, I would post that the residents of Jasper caught word of our "worst experience at McDonalds" thread, passed it around the community, and out of fear and loathing generated by that post, boycotted the restaurant, thus causing it to go out of business

 

Hmm story sounds logical, must be true, can't wait to post on other forums that FFC shut down McDonalds in Jasper - woohoo another "internet" truth is born !

 

 

[McLeod]

Ha, I was hoping someone would ask - Economic feasibility, it is as simple as that - same reason McDonalds failed in Jasper, and the Wendy's and Harvey's failed in Banff.

 

Of course if I just wanted to create a buzz on the internet, I would post that the residents of Jasper caught word of our "worst experience at McDonalds" thread, passed it around the community, and out of fear and loathing generated by that post, boycotted the restaurant, thus causing it to go out of business

 

Hmm story sounds logical, must be true, can't wait to post on other forums that FFC shut down McDonalds in Jasper - woohoo another "internet" truth is born !

 

Good to see your post .

. I am of course biased because I believe fishing belongs in the Rockies for various reasons and I get my peace and serenity with nature dipping a line 5 to 10 kilometers off a highway in one of the NP'S.. I am willing to pay for it as well.

 

By the way those who need Timmies always have Hinton and or Canmore.