AndyW

You won't go blind or get hairy palms from a "solo" fishing trip.

From what I understand that the Macintyre will not be participating in the program. I believe the Knight ranch let some resident hunters kill cow elk only this past season, and Mule deer bucks by the outfitter only. second hand info though... For those that don't know the background of the Deseret Ranches, just google it. You will understand why I think that a $20 trespass fee will not make them all of a sudden allow resident hunters access. Their spreads in utah are strictly pay to play, you have to hunt with an outfitter and purchase a landowner permit. In Utah $20 won't get you past the front gate.

Kinda getting off topic but from all the info I have gathered there is no long-term recruitment of pheasants in Alberta anyhow. They may winter over if it is mild, but a winter like this I think they all become coyote popcicles.

Guys, The first draft of the RAMP program that was introduced last year had no habitat component to it. The final draft has not been released, so it is anyones guess at this point if it does address habitat enhancement. The management at SRD must be scratching their heads as during the past decade the farmers and ranchers in the two zones that this pilot project is happening in have been wanting ungulate numbers reduced, which is reflected by late season cow elk hunts, applicants recieving two antlerless deer tags, etc... Yet the big ranches that are pushing for this for the most part do not allow residend hunters, or very few. Now landowners will be recieving a trespass fee, and possibly in the future landowner tags to sell on the open market. Seems all counter intuitive to the original management goals in the zone? WMU 108 where this is happening the Deseret Ranch ( I believe the largest ranch in the unit) only allowed a very select few hunters, and only to harvest non-trophy animals by residents. I have heard that there is an outfitter that runs some hunts on there for the big mule deer. Anyone that has been following the developments of this since last year when the working group was hashing out the details know what the few participating ranches want out of this- The landowner tags. These come out of the resident hunter pool and can be sold to the highest bidder. I had one of the ranchers that is part of this group tell me that they will broker deals with outfitters to market the hunts on their ranches, letting the outfitter run it all as this is what they are doing anyhow. Currently the landowner tag component (HFH) has been shelved with only the access component (RAMP) being introduced next hunting season. I find it hard to believe that the ranches that have historically not allowed resident hunting are going to now allow hunters because of a regulated trespass fee of $20 per hunter, especially when the most lucrative component for the ranchers (HFH) has been shelved. They are using Montana and Utah as templates for this. Yes there are places that you can hunt as a resident there on private land through the block managenent plan. The catch is where the better habitat is that hold big deer and elk, these ranches are all tied up by the outfitters. The ranches will sell their tags to the outfitters and run exclusive areas with unfettered access as the drawing card. This is when you pay the outfitter for the tag of course. Works great if you want to pay $10k to hunt elk, but the way the whole system is structured if you don't pay the big dollars you will not be hunting the ranches with good habitat. Time will tell....

Yes fishing is mentioned in the OS initiative but will have very little, if any bearing on it. This whole initiatiive is about about hunting on the big ranches in Southern alberta and the eventual goal of the the participating landowners receiving tags to market as they see fit. The landowner permits were an integral part of the initial pilot project, but now it is just the recreational access part that they are proceeding with. The Landowner permit part of the program was not cancelled, but shelved. Time will tell how long it remains on the shelf.

If you plan to venture up here you should be comfortable with having grizzlies around. Lots of bears in this area.

Alberta's human-caused grizzlies deaths at three-year high By Jason Markusoff, Calgary HeraldFebruary 2, 2009 http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Techn...877/story.html Conservationists are raising alarm about the highest human-caused death toll of Alberta grizzly bears since the provincial government suspended the grizzly hunt three years ago. By accident, self-defence or other means, people killed 19 grizzlies last year, up from nine in 2007, according to data Alberta Sustainable Resource Development released late last month. Carl Morrison of the Action Grizzly Bear alliance said the statistics suggest the ministry needs to do much more to prevent more losses in the iconic creature’s dwindling population. “Obviously that’s fundamental in recovering the species: that we gain more bears than we lose each year,” Morrison said today. “And with the numbers of bears we saw disappear last year, that’s not the case.” The province began its grizzly recovery plan in 2007, and has been mapping our the bear habitats so it can define where it should limit car and human access. It has also launched extensive education programs to curb human-grizzly conflicts. Morrison said the studies are happening too slowly and the guidelines are too lax. Last year’s human-related grizzly mortalities were the most since 2005, when 10 of the 24 deaths were by licensed hunters in the last year of the legal grizzly hunt. In 2008, six grizzlies were put down because they were posing risks to humans, another six were killed in self defence, and four by accident. Others were killed by aboriginal subsistence hunters, in an illegal kill, or for unknown reasons. jmarkusoff@theherald.canwest.com

The new Clacka model they had at the show was kick ass. Clackacraft all the way.

Sausage fingers!

Wow and it is only December.... It's gunna be a long winter.

The way that they manage the Bow watershed has nothing to do with fishing. The W.I.D and the E.I.D. are for watering crop fields. How much water is diverted to fill the canals? a few lakes in the city is a drop in the bucket compared to how much water they use to irrigate. also look at the wonky flows we get as the dams upstream mess with it for power generation. Fishing and fisheries are at the BOTTOM of the list. Sheesh some summers the Bow is like pissy bathwater because of them keeping the upstream dams full. It is a shame.... A dam shame!

It must be true as I read all about it on the intra-web.....

It is real simple for me. I am a human and I do value human life over animal life. I also value animal life but to a lesser degree as I had a chicken breast for lunch today. If you consider this a "high horse" then yes I rule over the horse I ride as well. I agree with this and I did not say anything contrary to this statement. I have done all of the above with the exception of bombing a country with no plans to ever give it a try. The last part of your statement is disturbing- and because I have never met you face to face I will chalk up your crazy talk assumptions that you have made about me because you let emotion rule your existence, actions, and ramblings- violent ramblings to boot. Self righteous? Your rant is about as self righteous and simplistic as one could get. The intent of my original reply was to point out the hypocracy that people have when they see a picture of a dead bear- that is it. No doubt we have the ability to kill all the Grizzly Bears, Bull Trout, and the like. This is why we have Fish and Game management. Grizzly Bears are in better shape in BC than Chinook Salmon. Do you get this emotional when you see a picture of a bonked 50 pound Chinook? A Tuna sandwich? -another wild animal we choose to eat that is suffering the consequences. A Grizzly Bear, a Bull trout, a Bighorn sheep. They all need big tracts of unspoiled, unique habitat to survive. We are past a time with our society in North America that we are hunting animals to extinction. This is why we have bag limits, limited draws, zero catch/kill limits depending on the species and population of said species, fish or game. As ironic and unimaginable that it probably seems to you the people who kill wild animals- no matter if it is a whitetail doe to eat or a bear for the pelt don't have this human against the animal mentality that you spewed in your rant. The first National Park was started by a hunter (Teddy Rosevelt) and the National Autubon Society was also started by a hunter. No different than Trout unlimited being started and run by fishermen. Exact same reasons behind the group. Well then all of the fishing pictures should make you equally as sick. Ear to ear grins after someone catches the 26" Brown that they have just fought for 20 minutes... Time to remove the emotion goggles you view things through and check the facts before you let your uninformed bias get the best of you.

I have no problems with anyones views if they do not value hunting bears, fishing, or whatever else, I respect their views and however they got to that point. Where it becomes a problem is when someones views on an activity becomes a mission to stop said activity- or when they say that they see no difference between legally hunting bears and killing a human. I am not here to debate the merits of hunting bears and I am not directly comparing hunting to fishing but they have a ton in common, yes even if you C&R fish as well as you are still impacting the resource albiet at a different level. Lots have said its killing just for killing and that is a pretty simplistic view of it. Last I checked there is a whole industry that raises birds just to cape them and sell the feathers for us to make flies with. I would call that killing just to kill (or fish) as well using the same simplistic views that have been expressed by some on this topic.

It is one thing if you don't agree with hunting bears, but not seeing the difference with killing a human is warped! Alot of the same people and organizations that are anti hunting also include fishing. "why would someone want to hook a fish in the mouth basically torture it just for personal pleasure?" It is a slippery slope... It makes you feel really bad yet you still do it? There is only one way to ensure you don't kill fish- sell your gear. If you are an avid fisherman it is not just a rare occasion that you kill fish. Sorry guys but the hypocracy is thick on this thread.

Birchy how much are you planning to tow? My 4L Tacoma can tow 6500 lbs. I get a solid 25MPG on the highway and have had as high as 28MPG when I drive the speed limit! 22-23MPG in the city. It is a double cab and it has plenty of interior room. My buddy has an older expedition and it sucks fuel, heh it just plain sucks. If this is going to be a daily driver the added fuel costs will soon outweigh a few thousand saved on the purchase. Different story if it just for weekends/holidays. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Stay with the Toyota! Ford=mistake!!!

Great to hear that you are getting the kids out hunting. Congratulations to your daughter!

They missed the most important one; -You refer to flyfishermen as flyfishers.

A guide license, a test to get said license, creel reports, limiting guide days as/where needed. You are a breath away from creating what BC has with the classified watershed system. BC= Bring Cash! This amounts to an infrastructure nightmare that would only be possible with money injected into the system- and lots of it. The net result would be joe angler having to pay more for a license, paying more if he chooses to be guided. Fishing is a sport/passtime that should be and remain affordable for average people with kids. I don't see any benefit of how a big increase in license fees, rod days, etc would do anything but stop average tourists from fishing. All an increase in fees does is put more in general revenue for the Province. If you feel you should pay more for your license then make a donation to TU, this would make more sense from a conservation point of view.

Any gomer with a boat can be a "guide" in Alberta. If there was a license then you would have licensed "gomer guides" in Alberta. If you are looking for a reputable guide this board is a good place to start. Ask for a refferal from members, as lots have used the services of guides. It is fishing not open heart surgery. * I would like to add that a good guide is all relative to the client in his boat. Some guides do good with newbies, drifting the middle of the river with cork, getting unexperienced fishermen into fish, everyone is happy. Heck a mediocre fishing day can be made better with a good lunch for some. I have been with guides that this is the norm, regardless of the client and it was a battle to get them to spot structure and positioning the boat from the bank to throw streamers and dries, way more work for the guide with the latter. My point is some guides love newbies (easier) and some love guiding experience, and not all excel at both. Not sure how a license (tax) would solve this?

"detesting intolerance" is an oxymoron.

How ya figure?

Blackbook is just a general guide only. A clean Toyota Tacoma will always wholesale higher than blackbook. A hummer will wholesale less than blackbook. BTW- This Sequoia would be considered rough because of the mileage alone. It is worth 7k, maybe a bit more but not much.

I notice no difference running regular compared to premium. I have noticed that I get 10% worse mileage running ethanol blended gas from Husky. Ethanol seems to be bad news, net energy loser to produce and then it gives crappy mileage.