reevesr1

Dude, it was LOUD. I think I scared Taco. I had lost 3 or 4 in a row and a couple of them pretty nice. I was fishing a pool with a back-eddy across the creek from me. So I'm holding my arm straight out trying to keep all the line off the water while my #18 (stupid small fly for cutties, but they weren't being all that cooperative) comparadun drifts around. I was REALLY happy with the drift when a big cuttie comes up and just slams it. Hookset, 5 seconds of pull, then off. A really big damnit (or maybe something else, don't remember) comes out of my mouth, and I see Taco whip around. I think he thought I had fallen off a cliff or something!!

It's all about action. You did the right thing in taking him to a lake that had a great chance at him catching fish. But when he gets bored, walk the shore with a little net. Look for minnows and bugs. Throw some rocks if there aren't a lot of other fishermen around. Let him set the agenda as much as possible.

Surprisingly enough, neither of us brought a camera. On a totally unrelated note, we did drink Dos Equis beer so we have supplanted BBT as the most interesting men in the world.

I did the small stream cuttie thing with Taco yesterday. He was leading me on a quest for pure strain cutties in tiny water, and water not so tiny. In our travels for these elusive fish we did a ton of driving and a not insignificant amount of fishing. The fishing was slow at times, ok at others, and really good for a spell late in the afternoon. Just before our first stop on a tiny little creek, we drove past a pretty big group of random campers complete with dirt bikes and ATVs. Most of the time we were fishing I think we could hear them. I say think because I actually don't pay much attention to them. They seemed to be sticking to the trails, particularly the 10 yr old girl with the pink helmet. The reality for me is if they don't run me over when I'm fishing, I probably won't notice them. Long as they are following the rules, they have as much right to be there as I have. Next stop was about an hour drive to the trunk road area, then a 1/2 hour drive up a stupid rough goat trail Taco called a "good road". I shudder to think what a "bad road" would look like. Just before we reach our destination (thanks for the email by the way FHD, the creek is still very nice!), I see the glint of a vehicle parked right where we were heading. Turns out to be 2 vehicles and a big ass hunting tent. We park and there are 3 young men around the campfire, and we see a couple of spin rods and one fly rod. We mosey over expecting no shirts, tobacco stains, missing teeth, fish carcasses, oversized treble hooks, and drool (but we thought one guy might be presentable-you know, the fly fisherman), but were quite surprised to find a clean campsite, no carcasses and 3 pretty polite guys. Don't think they were all that thrilled to see us, but if I had taken the effort to set up where they were, I wouldn't have been all that thrilled to see us either. They said they had fished upstream that day and had no problem with us going downstream. So downstream we went into some of the most gorgeous canyon water I've ever fished. Fishing started slow and got better. Plenty of fish and lots of laughs. If you ever have a chance to fish with a big ass dutch guy, I recommend it. Just don't let him have any pools first. When we got back to the unlocked truck, we found the campsite was gone and the spin guys didn't steal anything! Guess they are not all bad. The campsite was immaculate. So to recap, we saw most everything of what is supposed to be wrong in this province (we did see some oil wells, but no oil sands so I guess we didn't see absolutely everything that is wrong). All we had was fun fishing some of the most beautiful country imaginable. Not that much of a surprise that other people, even people without a fly rod, want to enjoy it as well. But I did get mad a few times-at my total inability to land a dry fly fish. I think I even cussed once. Anyway, get out and enjoy. I sure did.

As fishermen evolve, many of them move on to more advanced techniques. The only exception to this, I would think, are people fishing for food.(not judging, just stating!). I would think that even some of them begin to learn that fishing is just fun and look for other ways to to it and places to go. Bait restrictions on most of the fun flowing water and more, but admittedly not enough, of stillwater aid in this transition. And that is good. So the first transition is from bait to spin. Doesn't cost much to do this, and opens up many, many fishing opportunities. As he fishes more he will begin to consider fly fishing. But the transition to fly fishing is much more difficult. First off, it certainly costs significant bucks to enter. And it is endlessly complicated. And is very, very intimidating. And many fly fishermen seem like asses. I did not want to do it at first because of the above reasons and the fact that I just didn't want to be "new" at something I had done my whole life. And partly because I thought "screw those guys." In the end, I am very glad I did it. But had I not I wouldn't care any more about the fishery than I already do. It could be argued that the fact we care this much about the fishery and fishing is what drives us try to find the best way to experience it. I just think we need to be very, very careful about criticizing "less advanced" methods. If fly fishing truly is the pinnacle, then as participants it is our responsibility to educate others, not castigate them. This year I've converted 3 spin fishermen to fly fishermen (maybe it's 4). Not because I wanted to make them more responsible and ethical fishermen (they already were) but because I wanted them to get as much enjoyment out of this that I do. And this passion is what will drive people to get involved in fishery issues. What I think I'm trying to say in the above poorly constructed paragraphs is fishing is an evolution. The spin fisherman is really just me, but a few years ago. To be disgustingly inclusive-he is my brother. Remember that evolution is a continuing thing. The next evolution of the fly fisherman seems to be from nymphs to dry. Some even evolve to no hooks. What if they get to set the rules? There is always someone more evolved than we are. And FFF, while I would be interested in the mortality stats, that wasn't my point. However little or high the mortality is from any method, the biggest jump is the infinite jump from 0 mortality (not fishing at all) to whatever the fly fishing mortality is.

So a spin fisherman turns his back on a fly fisherman? Gee, wonder why. Not like we ever look down on them or anything. So please tell me why any body of water should be fly fishing only? Because it has the lowest mortality rate? Then what is the acceptable mortality rate? What determines it? Is it science, or is it since ff tends to have the lowest rate it must be ok? I guess the reason ff has less is small, single hook. I have no issue with changing to single, unbarbed hooks only on any lure or fly-and sold that way. Fantastic idea. Don't change the overall methodology, change the "bait." But fly fishing only? Copout. Funny that in every other case on this board, the prevailing opinion seems to be whenever some group has the most money, they get an inordinate say in the making of the rules. I would submit that if that is true, then it's true in fishing as well. In the west, I find we tend to revolt against anything that panders to the most sensitive. In fishing, we are the most sensitive, but I guess it's ok to pander to us. And don't say "its for the fish" to me. If we were truly for the fish, we'd all stop. We want it to be good for the fish just as long as it is good for us too. (I'm exaggerating a bit here. But just a bit.) A bit off topic, but: Lets say fly fishing mortality is 1% (making that number up) Spinner mortality is 2% (making that up too) Bait fishing mortality 4% (same non-source of info) The fly fisherman would say "fly fishing only!" The Spinner guy says "no bait fisherman!" The bait fishermen says "those numbers are bullshit" The extreme environmentalist says "When fishing with legal means, fishing mortality is between 1 and 4%. Those numbers are unacceptable and all fishing needs to be banned!"

Cool Pipes!

Let's not kid ourselves. Fly fishing only rules are often put in place to be restrictive for other types of fishing, not always for the fish. Fly fishermen are quite often the elite class. Not much of a surprise that in the end, in many cases, they get the rules changed to suit them.

I would like that quote better if the word "fly" was removed. Again, the quote was written by a fly fishermen, so is pretty self serving and self congratulatory. Want the best way for fish and man to coexist? Stop all forms of fishing. And lots of people want to do that and see ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE (yes, shouting) between a fly, a spinner, or a worm. The only people who see the difference is us. From the outside it is all the same. And I'll put my care taking up against anyone. Edit: Hey Taco- Should I bring my ultralight Sunday??

But FFF, I gotta say that the barbs seem to be a secondary issue to you. It was the spinner itself that made you just as mad. If that is not the case then I totally misread your post. Had you found a barbed wolly bugger on the ground, would it have raised as much ire?

This is my least favorite subject. I personally reject the thought that someone is somehow less than moral because they use spin gear (discounting the barbs, but you seem to be just as mad at the fact that they used a spinner at all). I have taught my sons to fish with flies, streamers, spoons, spinners, plugs, as well as live bait, while in most cases practicing catch and release. I'm proud of that. Fishing is fun in all it's forms. The fact that most of my fishing, and all my river fishing, is done with a fly rod does not make me a more ethical being. Anyone who thinks it does is deluding themselves, IMHO. In the end, we are all just jamming sharp pointy objects in fish. For our fun. How hypocritical is it of us to decide a single #2, or #12, or #20 is somehow morally superior to a #4 treble? And I also find it quite humorous, and often sad, that we want to classify more water as fly fishing only. While many of us kid ourselves that we do this for the betterment of the fish (and I will admit that for some this is true-they are doing it for the fish), isn't it strange that while protecting the fish, we don't change the way we fish, since we are, you know, fly fishermen? What bullshit. And quite frankly, I'll fish any damn place I want.

I have tried both of them. Really liked them both. I had the LPXe 4 wt for a week cuttie fishing and a 6 Act4 on the Bow. Both great bangs for the buck (no comments needed). I also have a Amundson 5 wt 10 foot Wind Warrior that I love. Not really sure what the price is cuz my buddy built it, but they are reasonable. Mike-one of the best replies ever, though I'm sure T&T is feeling a bit slighted.

Thanks for that. The second part sounds relatively yucky. Just curious, does it transition quickly from Awesome to Poo, or is it a gradual decline in eatability? That could be important. I would not want to eat it even if there were mere traces of the pooped in my mouth taste/sensation. Sorry for stealing your post Steve, but Jay asked for it!

Great fish! Dog is either unimpressed, or spots another!

Hey SL, Best of luck on the personal matter. You're not the only one who bends toward the extreme to keep discussion going. Keeps things exciting, or if not exciting, at least not dull.

Lordy, lordy. Flowers, weeds, fungi, frogs, bald men, tiny fish and a daughter who would need a dna test to prove to me she's yours. Far too cute to be your progeny. Looks like fun buddy.

Good job on educating her.

Great topic. I agree with all the above and wish I spent more time trying new casts, flipping rocks, etc. I just have a hard time not spending every second trying my hardest to hook a fish on each and every cast. It's a work in progress.... I will say that after reading this post, I made it a point to clean up a couple of random sites on the Liv yesterday. Gil, I could have written your post. Particularly the no one is perfect part. This also got me thinking about people I have fished with, both new fishermen and not so new. So, I just went through my pictures on ImageShack. It's like a FFC Reunion. I counted 60 different people I've fished with in the last 3 yrs, and I know I've missed several. 28 of those were FFC members, and I know I've missed several of those too. I found 3 kids that I've tried to teach to fish (not including mine), 4 adults that I took on their first trip (one of which routinely outfishes me now) , lots of family, and many, many fishermen who are far more accomplished than I'll ever be. Next time I go through the pics, I will count the different bodies of water I've been fortunate enough to fish in the past couple of years........ I'm not sure how I could be luckier than I am.

Marc, 99% is mine, unless it is something I am willing to accept a bit of risk to purchase (insert your own punchline here.) Anyway, to get back on topic- If I were to buy a new pair of sunglasses they would be MJs. But I don't think I'd get titanium!

I wonder how effective the Internet is for posting positive Customer Service experiences? Lynn puts up a post on how happy she is with Maui Jim. A couple of positive and a negative experience follow. A negative experience carries more weight (don't think so? Would you buy from an eBay seller with <95% feedback rating? I wouldn't and 95% means 1 in 20 bad experiences), so the upshot is people who may have bought from them in the past, now will reconsider. This from an original post from a POSITIVE customer service experience. Just an observation. Not an indictment of anyone. Edit: My point is not to say anything bad about anyone's post. I think that if someone puts up a positive experience of a product, then it is perfectly within someone else's right to put up a negative. The point was more along the lines of for any product, someone, somewhere has a negative experience. Doesn't mean the product is bad (though it could mean that). Just like a positive customer experience does not mean a product is good (though it could mean that). But a negative experience does carry more weight than a positive.

Nice fish! My last few mornings on the Bow have been pretty slow. Need me a big rainbow fix! At least I got to live vicariously through yours.

Had a prescription pair for just over a year. Loved them and never had to deal with customer service as I never had a problem. Until I lost them. If I can ever convince myself to fork over the big bucks for another pair, I'll get Maui Jims.

Funny! But I think you are far better suited to getting in my head on hook setting methods than trying to mess with my head on the golf course. And I don't breath at all on my backswing!

Out today on the Liv. Before 4 PM, I would say I saw 4 fish rise to something other than my dry. A bit of surface activity after 4 PM, but nothing consistent at all. Cycled through a bunch of dries, but a yellow madame x size 12 and 18 ant (many ants flying around) were the most consistent. I will say the 6x tippet I ended up at helped. But I HATE messing with tippet that small, my eyes can't take it. I could have done better with hopper dropper, but I resisted temptation. My son spent some time nymphing and did ok. He and my nephew went in one direction and me and my buddy in another. When comparing notes when we met up we did find that none of us caught a single fish in fast water. Still all in pools and tailouts. I did ok on the deep water side of seams as well, with bigger fish hanging out there. So the fishing was not quite what I was looking for. But who cares. Sure the heck is purty.

I'm currently watching MSNBC, or what it should be called currently "All Health Care All The Time." Not surprisingly, they are all for a public option in health care reform, as I am. But the public discourse in my country may be irreparably broken. When MSNBC talks of the debate, they talk of the facts on their side and the opinions of the other side. Obermann actually said "how do you get through to those people who don't think." In other words, those who are against health care reform don't think. It would be interesting to watch Fox just to get the other side. Problem is I can't watch Fox without throwing crap at the TV. But watching MSNBC is the same damn thing, just from a perspective I identify with more. What is happening in my country, and I know I have said this before, is that the political parties have become more like competing religions. If the other side believes something they must be wrong, because they are wrong about everything. Makes finding a common ground almost impossible. BTW, reading some of the political discourse here, you guys are on the same path, just not as far along yet. Or maybe you are. It's all pointless. Guess I'll go fishing tomorrow.