flyfishfairwx Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 I don't think anyone is asking anyone to turn a blind eye and act like this stuff never happens. It likely happens more often than any of us cares to believe. Did you read my post in "fishing finds" about the Ford Fender setup and chain stringer on the Livingstone? You think I was happy to see that? Absolutely not. Would I have done something had I caught the perpetrators red-handed? You bet. Was there anything I could do at that point? Nope. Shake my head and carry on with the hope that the jack-asses that thought that was cool would eventually be stupid enough to get caught. Unfortunately there are far too many miles of rivers and far too few conservation officers to keep it under control. I might add if there suddenly were enough conservation officers to patrol these rivers we'd all be bitching about having to pull our waders off to get our wallets out to show our fishing licenses... So we do think alike in some ways... But and there is always a but... some would have us turn a blind eye.. and act that way.. on some off those people are in power and hold positions..and some are the perpetrators .... that is why it is important for the average Joe to speak up.. I just took my see through license holder off my vest when I changed over to a backpack.. sort of like complainting about the cold and then the heat.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Folks, Lets try this for size. I belong to several fishing groups. Not a worm dunker in any of them. Never met a worm dunker who was interested in the public fishing resource. Never met a worm dunker who ever spent any time working to improve the public fishery. SRD enforcement target worm dunkers - why - 'cause they know that most infractions are done by them. But times are changing. As more worm dunkers learn to FF, the ethics of FF are getting diluted. Is FF only the answer - No. Just makes things worse. Brands FF types as elist. Not a good thing. I'd really like to see worm dunkers working to improve our fisheries but I'm not holding my breath waiting. Don Well. What qualifies as a worm dunker? I have the moto... "I fish...therefore I am" By that I mean...I will fish any wheres, any how, any time using what ever technique is at my disposal and based upon what works and is legal. I have used bait for mountain whitefish, lake whitefish, pike, walleye, sauger, lingcod, perch and trout. I will flyfish, spin fish, bobber fish, ice fish or troll when ever the fancy takes me. I will use a multitude of techniques in the chuck/salt water. I mostly practice catch and release and more often than not the way I catch fish is dictated first by what I feel is most fun. But if I wanted something to eat I would easily switch to bait. I would toss bait to cudas, snook, tarpon and shark if I could this minute. I would drop a smelt in front of a large laker at 80 feet if there was one under me right now. If the trout rise tonight I will cast a dry or if the surface is quiet either drop a nymph under a corkie or cast a baited jig for perch. So I too have belonged to various groups but still find to much politics and bickering in many of them. People with agendas carefully hidden in false friendships. Why do we need to fly fish only? For every flyfisherman only fanatic in Alberta there are many that say you guys are idiots cause you are not REALLY TRUE flyfishermen. You use to much man made material in flies, you are not using bamboo, you are using corkies, your cast is not traditional enough...and your clothing is not European. I have fished next to many a spin fisherman and have done more bait fishing in the last month that fly fishing. I am pretty good at catching fish on the fly rod so my skill is never in doubt when picking a fishing method. I pride myself on being able to go fishing almost any wheres and do well and/or quickly pick up what I see others doing. As for using a small ultralight lure in a high mountain lake...if my kids were there I would probably set them up. I may use them if flies just were not working. I would have one hook rather than a treble and no barb. Nobody should either complain about that or be self righteous enough to say doing that is wrong. Rickr said a fair bit of what I agree with. Sometimes people need to take a step back and be respectful of others and not place some of their own personal opinions as a judgment of their character or morals or values. Now when you say that a worm dunker has never added value to the fishery...now you know one. I take pride when fishing, clean up after myself and others, have spent a ton of volunteer hours outside our lake community as well as hundreds of hours with in our lake community all for the benefit of the fishery. I am not fanatical about it nor have the luxury of spending every waking moment doing it but I probably stand out in the top 5% if not 1% of the fishing community. Cheers Sun P.S. Anyone wanna catch perch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulltrout Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhuger Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I went with my son , to one of our wonderful Golden trout lakes. I had been there not two weeks before camping and fishing for 4 days, caught 4 fish and considered it a roaring success.. even with the shitty weather with the damn hard hail.. SO I HAVE TO ASK WHO IS SO GOD DAMN INSECURE, WEAK MINDED THAT THEY NEED TO USE THIS TO CATCH AN EIGHT OR TWELVE INCH TROUT? ( yes I am shouting as I am damn mad about this) s/z274/flyfair07/IMGP0007-14.jpg[/img] I believed that the education system here in AB was great but they do not teach reading or comprehension of rules and regulations WTF.. it is still barb'd and that rule came in when? 2005 +/- So go ahead and defend this, I frigging dare you I just dare you to defend this type of fishing, morally or ethically.... Do you really think that just because you went through all the trouble to hike there that you deserve to catch a fish ? BULLSHIT That is it your god given right to get a fish anyway you can ? BULLSHIT Where is the PRIDE and INTEGRITY in using this to catch these fish.. you have NO conscience FRIGGING NONE ! I would not want the like of you as my fire team partner ( soldiers may only understand this last part, but it is damn important! ) I would take great pleasure in inserting the ****ing thing in your lips and then ripping it out!!!! Barbs and all... If you can't deal with this then just deal with it!!! and Piss off, fish the Bow and stay out of the wilds .. Sorry about that. I did not realize I had not de-barbed them, my bad. For the record though, golden trout do not taste good enough to warrant the hike, especially when you are apt to lose so much fine gear bringing them in. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Gee folks, I also use a spin rod occasionally - even have one made of cane. But - there are few spin fishermen who do a hell of a lot for the fishery resource. Wished it was different but ... And Sundance - there is some difference between trying to make a lake perch free in a gated community than dealing with the public resource. I clean up Beaver Lake several times a summer - so far I've found ONE piece of FF related garbage but the bait containers, pickerel rigs and on and on are beyond count. Do recall when Beaver Lake was "showcased" in the Alberta Fishing Regs. as the place to catch larger fish. One Friday, of the 40 anglers there, 16 of them were bait fishing, on Sunday, it dropped to 9 of 25. And this is a lake with plenty of signage. The best part was one woman who was leaning on the No Bait sign while fishing bait. Call to SRD resulted in a visit Monday and some busts. Doesn't mean that FF types are law abiding. As Rick says, a lot of worm dunkers switch hit. Some of the worm dunkers haul their ethics along. Recall a couple of downeasters that fished Beaver a lot. Always with 2 rods each. One day, one of them showed up with a fly rod. When I told him that only one rod was allowed/angler his response "Nobody cares if I catch my supper" left me at a loss for words. Two weeks ago, a couple of aged cowboys showed wives in tow. One fished bait, one fly fished. Both walked/drove past 3 signs that clearly explained the regulations. The one that fished bait caught and kept a fish. Like I said - wished that all spin fishermen would read and understand the regs. What really bothers me is the frank disregard for regulation by a large segment of the spin fishing group. They seemingly really don't give a d**n. Rather than other spinfishermen reporting them, FF types seem to be the folks that care enough to call. And the best part, spin fishermen attack those that do report their illegal activities. This, of course, leads to the branding of FF types as elitist rather than the real issue is why spin fishermen don't police themselves. Sure there are ethical spin fishermen, know many. But, by in large, most illegal activity is related to spin fishing/work dunking gear. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalanche Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Sure there are ethical spin fishermen, know many. But, by in large, most illegal activity is related to spin fishing/worm dunking gear. Don I wonder if that's because it's bloody difficult to fish illegally with a fly rod other than to not squeeze the barb? If you checked every fly fisherman out there to see if his/her barb was squeezed down, would your tune change? I suspect it might... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacefulwarrior Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Did you say you were a hunter? That's the (sport) activity where man sits in a hole for hours and then shoots a helpless animal with a bullet (read barbed hook/lure) that kills the animal basically for the personal gratitude of the hunter (meat is available every 300 yards in the city) with no catch and release option available. Wow -- you are on the moral high ground here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Gee folks, I also use a spin rod occasionally - even have one made of cane. But - there are few spin fishermen who do a hell of a lot for the fishery resource. Wished it was different but ... And Sundance - there is some difference between trying to make a lake perch free in a gated community than dealing with the public resource. I clean up Beaver Lake several times a summer - so far I've found ONE piece of FF related garbage but the bait containers, pickerel rigs and on and on are beyond count. Do recall when Beaver Lake was "showcased" in the Alberta Fishing Regs. as the place to catch larger fish. One Friday, of the 40 anglers there, 16 of them were bait fishing, on Sunday, it dropped to 9 of 25. And this is a lake with plenty of signage. The best part was one woman who was leaning on the No Bait sign while fishing bait. Call to SRD resulted in a visit Monday and some busts. Doesn't mean that FF types are law abiding. As Rick says, a lot of worm dunkers switch hit. Some of the worm dunkers haul their ethics along. Recall a couple of downeasters that fished Beaver a lot. Always with 2 rods each. One day, one of them showed up with a fly rod. When I told him that only one rod was allowed/angler his response "Nobody cares if I catch my supper" left me at a loss for words. Two weeks ago, a couple of aged cowboys showed wives in tow. One fished bait, one fly fished. Both walked/drove past 3 signs that clearly explained the regulations. The one that fished bait caught and kept a fish. Like I said - wished that all spin fishermen would read and understand the regs. What really bothers me is the frank disregard for regulation by a large segment of the spin fishing group. They seemingly really don't give a d**n. Rather than other spinfishermen reporting them, FF types seem to be the folks that care enough to call. And the best part, spin fishermen attack those that do report their illegal activities. This, of course, leads to the branding of FF types as elitist rather than the real issue is why spin fishermen don't police themselves. Sure there are ethical spin fishermen, know many. But, by in large, most illegal activity is related to spin fishing/work dunking gear. Don You have to be very careful with generalizing this whole thread... I suspect the vast majority of anglers licenced in Alberta are spin and bait fishermen. I wonder what the actual number is. It is probably 4 to 1 or higher spin to fly ratio. Spin fishing is the easier thing to attempt as a beginner or passive sport fisherman...marginal know how or skill is required and you still have a good chance at success. I have found my fair share of garbage left behind in small streams that is predominantly fished by flyfishermen. I find packages from leaders, old leader, plastic leader roles etc. Unfortunately given the much larger segment of the fishing population being spin fishermen...they do seem to carry more packaging with them. I strongly suspect the connection to spin fishermen being worse than fly fishermen is a mistake. I suspect the same percentage of each abuse the environment and lack respect for others. There is just way more of them. When I was a kid I spin fished. I never ever left garbage around. You assume as if I would of been a slob just because I spin fished. I also volunteer outside of Lake Sundance and on PUBLIC waters and continue to do so when time is available. I am not saying I do as much as the most prolific volunteers but as a volunteer in many areas of my life I know the value they provide and how few people step to the table. I also have to spread the time out on my volunteer efforts as the kids are young and I work full time. Statistics are always confusing...but in summary taking into account the 2007 total angler numbers of 249,500 people...if 5% of 200,000 spin fishermen were slobs then that means 10,000 are pigs. If 5% of the remainder (49,500) were slob flyfishermen (probably way to high)...then 2500 are pigs. You will find more spin fishing garbage cause there are just more of them. Please DO NOT lump all spin fishermen into one category of abusers. That is the definition of bigotry. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bigot The point is...what looks like only spin fishermen are slobs is misleading based upon the shear numbers being much higher but proportionally the same percentage of anglers is both groups is bad. I believe there is WAY to much confidence by a few on this thread that flyfishermen are saints. The best we can do as individuals on this board and others is to not alienate spin fishermen but set an example for both groups as to what our responsibility is to the environment and this sport. Otherwise we should also be bitching about which group is driving faster, being ruder, being more obnoxious. IMHO P.S. I also find Executives from downtown Calgary a pain in the ass. A couple years ago a guy in a fancy suit and a woman in a fancy dress sneaked off to the Elbow River one day. I walked past them in the parking lot to start fishing and about 20 minutes later was rudely interrupted while cutting through the trees to the next pool by them doing the funky money roll in a little clearing. How can a guy concentrate on the dry fly with all the grunting and moaning behind them? How? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalanche Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 A couple years ago a guy in a fancy suit and a woman in a fancy dress sneaked off to the Elbow River one day. I walked past them in the parking lot to start fishing and about 20 minutes later was rudely interrupted while cutting through the trees to the next pool by them doing the funky money roll in a little clearing. How can a guy concentrate on the dry fly with all the grunting and moaning behind them? How? That there is the true meaning of "worm dunker".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish4trout Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 theres a wire leader on it, enough said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 That there is the true meaning of "worm dunker".... She was hot enough to bait fish... ROTFLMFAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Sundance, Me - a bigot - Naw - just don't like lawbreakers. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Well. What qualifies as a worm dunker? I have the moto... "I fish...therefore I am" By that I mean...I will fish any wheres, any how, any time using what ever technique is at my disposal and based upon what works and is legal. I have used bait for mountain whitefish, lake whitefish, pike, walleye, sauger, lingcod, perch and trout. I will flyfish, spin fish, bobber fish, ice fish or troll when ever the fancy takes me. I will use a multitude of techniques in the chuck/salt water. I mostly practice catch and release and more often than not the way I catch fish is dictated first by what I feel is most fun. But if I wanted something to eat I would easily switch to bait. I would toss bait to cudas, snook, tarpon and shark if I could this minute. I would drop a smelt in front of a large laker at 80 feet if there was one under me right now. If the trout rise tonight I will cast a dry or if the surface is quiet either drop a nymph under a corkie or cast a baited jig for perch. So I too have belonged to various groups but still find to much politics and bickering in many of them. People with agendas carefully hidden in false friendships. Why do we need to fly fish only? For every flyfisherman only fanatic in Alberta there are many that say you guys are idiots cause you are not REALLY TRUE flyfishermen. You use to much man made material in flies, you are not using bamboo, you are using corkies, your cast is not traditional enough...and your clothing is not European. I have fished next to many a spin fisherman and have done more bait fishing in the last month that fly fishing. I am pretty good at catching fish on the fly rod so my skill is never in doubt when picking a fishing method. I pride myself on being able to go fishing almost any wheres and do well and/or quickly pick up what I see others doing. As for using a small ultralight lure in a high mountain lake...if my kids were there I would probably set them up. I may use them if flies just were not working. I would have one hook rather than a treble and no barb. Nobody should either complain about that or be self righteous enough to say doing that is wrong. Rickr said a fair bit of what I agree with. Sometimes people need to take a step back and be respectful of others and not place some of their own personal opinions as a judgment of their character or morals or values. Now when you say that a worm dunker has never added value to the fishery...now you know one. I take pride when fishing, clean up after myself and others, have spent a ton of volunteer hours outside our lake community as well as hundreds of hours with in our lake community all for the benefit of the fishery. I am not fanatical about it nor have the luxury of spending every waking moment doing it but I probably stand out in the top 5% if not 1% of the fishing community. Cheers Sun P.S. Anyone wanna catch perch? Well Sir...I'm really glad that someone had the Balls to say that they agreed with Rickr, and at the same time state his education as being a "Fisherman"...I'm standing right beside the both of you on this..we as fisherman face the same crap as every hunter..how to conserve our natural resources, so that in time we all can enjoy what nature gave to all of us with open arms.. ..I used to hunt game, birds, until , I believe the year was 69, when I experienced my first Canadian goose shoot on the Sask/Alberta border...after that day my hunting weapons were put aside, for I've never witness such a flock of birds in my life as I did that day...the first was estimated at around 8000 birds, but the last one that finished my hunting for animals/birds unless it was for survival was stated to be over the 10,000 mark...the sky turned black as they flew over us, and left the barrels just a smoken!.... ..fishing on the other hand gave me greater pleasure, because if I was careful in the removal of the hook, that fish would live to see another day...but a "bullet"....nah..it would take a life. ..OK..If all of you who are so concerned in the methods of the various ways to catch fish, but all agree that there should only be a "Single Hook" attached to each lure as there is with flies, then my suggestion would be..."boycott all the stores/shops who sell fishing lures until you force All the manufactures to produce single hook on all their lures which are SOLD in Alberta...if not stop your bloody whinning, for you sound like those little old ladies back in BC..you know the .."Bleeding Hearts"! ......................................Wolfie Oh did I forget to mention , that I fished professionally for 7 years in Ontario, representing our country in two major international events...as a FISHERMAN..not as an "elitist" .......Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishfairwx Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 NO !!!! You Fail to get it!!!!!... and frankly scarlet butt head I don't give a damn!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishfairwx Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 NO !!!! You Fail to get it!!!!!... and frankly scarlet butt head I don't give a damn!!!! Hay DBT sorry .. Don't piss off an old man before his over 45 nap, or before a good BM ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I dont think it has anything to do with which way you fish. If your the type of person that goes and breaks the law or throw's your garbage on the ground when out fishing. than your the type that will do it anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orvisonly Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 So a spin fisherman turns his back on a fly fisherman? Gee, wonder why. Not like we ever look down on them or anything. Mr. Texas, I believe it was clearly established last year that you are not a real flyfisherperson. Please stop using the term "we" when referring to fly fishers. You should be using "they". While it is clear that real fly fishermen and women are elite, it is the pretenders who are elitist. FFF - I'm glad to see you have a solid perspective on what matters in life, and don't have any anger management issues. Illegal acts should not be tolerated, and ripping barbed hooks through someones mouth seems a fitting punishment for this crime. Just out of curiosity, did you happen to spend some time peacekeeping in Somalia in March of 1993? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duanec Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 The next evolution of the fly fisherman seems to be from nymphs to dry. sorry, you lost me on all the darwinist references. i guess i'm more of a creationist...i'll never concede that dry or die is some higher or purer form, as that would rule out any salt water sight fishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Mr. Texas, I believe it was clearly established last year that you are not a real flyfisherperson. Please stop using the term "we" when referring to fly fishers. You should be using "they". While it is clear that real fly fishermen and women are elite, it is the pretenders who are elitist. FFF - I'm glad to see you have a solid perspective on what matters in life, and don't have any anger management issues. Illegal acts should not be tolerated, and ripping barbed hooks through someones mouth seems a fitting punishment for this crime. Just out of curiosity, did you happen to spend some time peacekeeping in Somalia in March of 1993? am I correct in assuming that your post is entirely in jest...sure hope so cause there are a few statement of ur's I would like to rip apart only if you were not joking of course....................Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Mr. Texas, I believe it was clearly established last year that you are not a real flyfisherperson. Please stop using the term "we" when referring to fly fishers. You should be using "they". Mr. Orvis, Thanks for reminding me. I really don't like fly fishermen very much, so in order to limit any self loathing I guess I probably should refer to "them" as "they". While it is clear that real fly fishermen and women are elite, it is the pretenders who are elitist. Pretend women or pretend fly fishermen? sorry, you lost me on all the darwinist references. i guess i'm more of a creationist...i'll never concede that dry or die is some higher or purer form, as that would rule out any salt water sight fishing. I'm more of an intelligent design guy myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Mr. Texas... Personally, I thought you were just a good 'ol Texas Redneck!! LoL P I'm more of an intelligent design guy myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykiss Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 While it is clear that real fly fishermen and women are elite, it is the pretenders who are elitist. With a statement such as that dude...and the name Orvisonly I would call you the elitist... Anyhow back to point the pics show nothing more than pure speculation on behalf of someones opinion on how another was fishing nothing more.... If you saw this dude fishing with that rig than punish him if not than worry about shiat you can control...oooo and for real facts Hooking mortality study was looking for something closer to home however this is the best and most updated I could find...intresting stuff there though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmcd Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 While it is clear that real fly fishermen and women are elite, it is the pretenders who are elitist. With a statement such as that dude...and the name Orvisonly I would call you the elitist... I'm pretty sure that post was meant as humor. FFF - I'm glad to see you have a solid perspective on what matters in life, and don't have any anger management issues. Illegal acts should not be tolerated, and ripping barbed hooks through someones mouth seems a fitting punishment for this crime. Just out of curiosity, did you happen to spend some time peacekeeping in Somalia in March of 1993? This comment should give you a clue that orvisonly's post was meant as a joke if you read the entire thread. I maybe mistaken but I sure thought it was funny. Also if you look at his posting history he makes a lot of funny posts on threads like these. It's almost like it's a regular posters alter ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykiss Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 If I failed to see the humour than I apologize...been trying not to wade into this gong show...and may have shot from the hip without thinking before hand.... I'm out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchy Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 orvisonly!! I've missed you smart@ss!! Where have you been? There have been a few threads on here lately that could use your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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