Hookless Flies

[Keith]

 

 

Is this legal in Alberta? I have been hearing more and more about this kind of system. I think that currently it would not be considered legal, but you have to think it will get reviewed.

 

http://www.moffittangling.com/control/main

[Jayhad]

there was a thread about this a few months back, I can't seem to find it via teh search but the generally consensis is that would be considered snagging

[birchy]

http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?...amp;hl=snagging

[reevesr1]

Below is the last paragraph of their research section. I did not read the entire article, just skimmed. But interesting read. I still have a hard time conceptualizing how this will work, but it has some advantages to the fish--the most obvious being in nymphing where many of us use 3 flies, and 3 hooks. This system would just use on hook at the bottom of the 3 fly rig. So from a snagging perspective, it would actually be an improvement over what we do today, ie, less snagged fish with the 2nd or 3rd fly. Anyway, not advocating this system as I don't have the necessary knowledge. But it is a bit intriguing.

 

Our method requires a fish to voluntarily take the fly, requires the angler to present the

fly properly, sense the take and land the fish. It produces equivalent catch efficiencies. It

allows all the traditional methods of fly tying to continue. Importantly, our method allows

anglers to strike at the sign of a fish’s take -overcoming the largest hurdle to widespread

angler acceptance of circle hooks. Our method delivers a 20% increase in the rate of jaw

hooking, lower rates of foul hooked fish and over an order of magnitude reduction in

serious hook related wounds. It allows fish to be released with minimum or no physical

handling. These critical resource benefits require nothing more than we accept the fact -

there may be an additional- if not better way to fly fish. The Moffitt System is a fishing

method designed with the expressed goal of improving our fishery resource. We believe

nothing could be more ethical.

 

From another source:

If you haven't heard of or seen the Moffit Angling System by now, you've missed one of the year's more controversial innovations. The Moffit System uses hookless flies that can be looped on and off the leader above a barbless circle hook, with the intended result of hooking fish in the outer jaw instead of inside the mouth or in the gills. The inventor, Pat Moffit, came up with the idea while searching for a system that would help reduce fish mortality. Moffit is a retired environmental scientist and lifetime fly angler and fly tier and designed his system specifically to reduce damage and disfigurement to trout. Why is it controversial? Because at first glance it is similar to rigs that are sometimes used to snag fish, and because some state laws that define what is "acceptable" terminal tackle may prohibit its use. There are also fly fishers who feel the system is too great a departure from the classic idea of the sport. (Of course there are also anlgers who, a century after a raging debate between icons of the sport, question whether fishing with a nymph is "real" fly fishing.) On the other hand the system has received endorsements from fly fishing experts like John Randolph and John Merwin, who've both fished the system extensively.

[humblefisherman]

The Moffitts just sent me the package in the mail and i am excited to try it out. I have read the Moffitt angling system online data, and as far as i can see it makes alot of sense. The primary tricks of the system are the circle hook, the tying of snell knots, and hookless flies. My opinion is that it is not snagging, but may be regarded as snagging by definition. It's worth checking out the website. The package looks good and the concept is sound, the flies are very real feeling and would be simple to

recreate at home. If it does indeed hook more fish with less impact, i will be impressed.

 

Might be a good idea for use as the trailing hook in a multi fly setup.

Once i get out and fish it for a day i'll let you all know how it works. If i even hook one fish anywhere but the mouth, i will discontinue the experiment. We will be filming the process for an upcoming episode of the Humblefisherman series. It does take some extra work as far as rigging and knots but they include a snell knot tool and also do a how to on the website.

 

I will reserve judgement until i've fished it, should be trying it out this week sometime this week on private water south of town.

[ÜberFly]

If you are so inclined, it might be a good idea to check woth a CO just to be on the safe side... Just my opinion, however...

 

Hate to see you lose all your gear on an "experiment", or misunderstanding...

 

 

P

 

P.S. *Edit* Just re-read your post and you'll be fishing in/on a private pond...

 

The Moffitts just sent me the package in the mail and i am excited to try it out. I have read the Moffitt angling system online data, and as far as i can see it makes alot of sense. The primary tricks of the system are the circle hook, the tying of snell knots, and hookless flies. My opinion is that it is not snagging, but may be regarded as snagging by definition. It's worth checking out the website. The package looks good and the concept is sound, the flies are very real feeling and would be simple to

recreate at home. If it does indeed hook more fish with less impact, i will be impressed.

 

Might be a good idea for use as the trailing hook in a multi fly setup.

Once i get out and fish it for a day i'll let you all know how it works. If i even hook one fish anywhere but the mouth, i will discontinue the experiment. We will be filming the process for an upcoming episode of the Humblefisherman series. It does take some extra work as far as rigging and knots but they include a snell knot tool and also do a how to on the website.

 

I will reserve judgement until i've fished it, should be trying it out this week sometime this week on private water south of town.

[Din]

If you plan on using this in Alberta you may as well just publicly say that you are breaking the law...no point in saying you're experimenting. In my humble opinion...

 

The Moffitts just sent me the package in the mail and i am excited to try it out. I have read the Moffitt angling system online data, and as far as i can see it makes alot of sense. The primary tricks of the system are the circle hook, the tying of snell knots, and hookless flies. My opinion is that it is not snagging, but may be regarded as snagging by definition. It's worth checking out the website. The package looks good and the concept is sound, the flies are very real feeling and would be simple to

recreate at home. If it does indeed hook more fish with less impact, i will be impressed.

 

Might be a good idea for use as the trailing hook in a multi fly setup.

Once i get out and fish it for a day i'll let you all know how it works. If i even hook one fish anywhere but the mouth, i will discontinue the experiment. We will be filming the process for an upcoming episode of the Humblefisherman series. It does take some extra work as far as rigging and knots but they include a snell knot tool and also do a how to on the website.

 

I will reserve judgement until i've fished it, should be trying it out this week sometime this week on private water south of town.

 

[birchy]

Do the regs still apply to "private water"?

[Hawgstoppah]

Do the regs still apply to "private water"?

 

No. Private water regs are those imposed by owner of said private body of water, on said private body of water.

 

[Taco]

Do the regs still apply to "private water"?

 

nope

[Tungsten]

The Moffitts just sent me the package in the mail and i am excited to try it out. I have read the Moffitt angling system online data, and as far as i can see it makes alot of sense. The primary tricks of the system are the circle hook, the tying of snell knots, and hookless flies. My opinion is that it is not snagging, but may be regarded as snagging by definition. It's worth checking out the website. The package looks good and the concept is sound, the flies are very real feeling and would be simple to

recreate at home. If it does indeed hook more fish with less impact, i will be impressed.

 

Might be a good idea for use as the trailing hook in a multi fly setup.

Once i get out and fish it for a day i'll let you all know how it works. If i even hook one fish anywhere but the mouth, i will discontinue the experiment. We will be filming the process for an upcoming episode of the Humblefisherman series. It does take some extra work as far as rigging and knots but they include a snell knot tool and also do a how to on the website.

 

I will reserve judgement until i've fished it, should be trying it out this week sometime this week on private water south of town.

I noticed a banner on this site?

Was just wondering if you tried it and what your thoughts where.

[SilverDoctor]

Speaking with a CO this system would be considered snagging. What is legal elsewhere in the US may not be legal here in Alberta. Perhaps you wil be the first test court case.

[Hawgstoppah]

I dont think there's a need for the hostility towards humble for stating he was going to try it ... .on private water.... before making a judgement on the system. Private waters are not governed by alberta regs, the rules are made by the individual or group who owns and manages the water.

 

Go fish one of the lakes in Calgary, ask the mgt team if you can test this system out, and your not breaking any laws if they say "go for it". Hell, some lakes allow barbed hooks too.

 

Cheers

[Conor]

Just to clarify- a river running through private land would still have provincial regs on it, correct?

[Wolfie]

now how can this method be considered as snagging, when in reality one is reacting to the take of the fish..just like if a fish takes ur fly [as in a stinger it hooks the fish where usually...on the cheek or below the lower jaw..that is considered as snagging, but it is allowed] ..besides it was stated that the fish could not be snagged anywhere on it's body with that type of hook and the method would not work unless that certain circle hook is used....................Wolfie...

[Weedy1]

Just to clarify- a river running through private land would still have provincial regs on it, correct?

 

Yes

 

[Wolfie]

Yes

 

you call it 'provincial regs'...however, as far as I have been informed it is a 'federal law', which states that on waters that are navigable, there must not be fences crossing the waters,and public access is a 2' water line..as far as private land is concern, it only applies when the land owner owns the land under the water, as when the water shifts it's course...and must produce a deed to said land...............please correct me if I'm wrong...........Wolfie

 

[SilverDoctor]

now how can this method be considered as snagging, when in reality one is reacting to the take of the fish..just like if a fish takes ur fly [as in a stinger it hooks the fish where usually...on the cheek or below the lower jaw..that is considered as snagging, but it is allowed] ..besides it was stated that the fish could not be snagged anywhere on it's body with that type of hook and the method would not work unless that certain circle hook is used....................Wolfie...

 

I'm no expert but I phoned a CO on this. he pointed me to the letter of the law which I'm including below directly from the Sports fishing regulations. Basically if the fish isn't taking the hook itself directly in it's mouth, it' considered snagging or flossing. Draw you own conclusions. By the way If you've never read the Sports fishing regulations I encourage you to do so.

 

Snagging – means attempting to catch or catching a fish using a hook:

[a] other than to induce the fish to voluntarily take the hook in its mouth;

or

by intentionally piercing and hooking a fish in any part of the body other than the mouth.

 

Snagging Device – means:

[a] an instrument that is designed for the purpose of snagging fish;

or

hooks or lures that are altered to facilitate the snagging of fish.

 

It Is Unlawful To:

Possess a snagging device while angling.

[Harps]

you call it 'provincial regs'...however, as far as I have been informed it is a 'federal law', which states that on waters that are navigable, there must not be fences crossing the waters,and public access is a 2' water line..as far as private land is concern, it only applies when the land owner owns the land under the water, as when the water shifts it's course...and must produce a deed to said land...............please correct me if I'm wrong...........Wolfie

 

Not to hijack the thread... Wolfie, there is alot on stream access here: http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?...able+waters+act

Fishing regs are a different ball game.

 

 

This is a very interesting thread...

I wonder how the catch rate is affected?

 

The flies still attract, but do you have to be more senstive to the take?

 

Would downstream presentations result in the same hook-ups?