Impressionistic Versus Realistic

[Fishscape]

I've started tying my own flies lately, and I'm wondering whether impressionistic or realistic flies are most effective, especially on fished-over areas like the Bow?

 

I've seen some of the Oliver Edwards patterns and they look like really cool patterns, like his Beatis nymph and Rhycophilia larva. There is also this online store, Perfect Fly's, that has incredibly realistic patterns available.

 

What I'm wondering if long-time tyers can comment on what the fish prefer. I heard somewhere that flies are designed to catch fishermen, not fish. I'm wondering how impressionsitic I can be in my tying versus trying to exactly imitate the natural.

 

I'm thinking that maybe imitating the behavior of the natural as closely as possible may be more important than the pattern.

 

Any ideas?

[SanJuanWorm]

Impressionistic for the bow. They both work but for half the cost you are catching the same fish. As long as the shape and color are close you're catching fish.

[newflyer]

to me always impressionistic - buggy and dull is the ticket for me, streamers aside...

[Keith]

I've started tying my own flies lately, and I'm wondering whether impressionistic or realistic flies are most effective, especially on fished-over areas like the Bow?

 

I've seen some of the Oliver Edwards patterns and they look like really cool patterns, like his Beatis nymph and Rhycophilia larva. There is also this online store, Perfect Fly's, that has incredibly realistic patterns available.

 

What I'm wondering if long-time tyers can comment on what the fish prefer. I heard somewhere that flies are designed to catch fishermen, not fish. I'm wondering how impressionsitic I can be in my tying versus trying to exactly imitate the natural.

 

I'm thinking that maybe imitating the behavior of the natural as closely as possible may be more important than the pattern.

 

Any ideas?

 

I think a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. I think realistic flies will probably help you out with pressured fish or on tough days, but are probably overkill 9 times out of 10. I like to have a supply for that 1 time out of 10, but I'm pretty OCD. But overall, I think that's the benefit of tying your own. You can test your theory out this season. I tied a couple dozen Ollie Edwards patterns this winter and I will definitely be testing them out to see if they are worth doing again. That said, a lot of reaslistic flies don't really take that much more time to tie. I can tie one of Edwards' Rhyacophila patterns in about the same time it takes me to tie more basic caddis larvae, so I don't really feel like I'm losing a lot of time for the more detailed patters. Whether that pattern will yield more fish remains to be seen. I imagine they'll both catch me plenty of fish this year.

[LlamaLeach]

When I first started tying, I was taught by a fellow from England who could tie some great flies. His coment to me was that if you put a bit of wool on a hook that was the right colour and size, you would catch fish. And I have aways found that to be corect. How and were you fish is more inportant.

[Fishscape]

When I first started tying, I was taught by a fellow from England who could tie some great flies. His coment to me was that if you put a bit of wool on a hook that was the right colour and size, you would catch fish. And I have aways found that to be corect. How and were you fish is more inportant.

 

Thanks for all the replies. the fact is I don't get the chance to get out on the river as much as I would like to experiment, so when I do get out I like to catch the odd fish.

That, and I'm curious too.

[Gil]

While I agree the effort you put into realistic flies isn't likely going to put a lot more fish in your net, I take a certain pride in trying to make some of my own designs with realistism in mind. Besides if I do happen to have a good day with my own realistic patterns, I can more easily convince myself it was do to my superior tying ability and not random luck...

[agbff]

When you have a fly that looks bang on its gives you more confidence in it which means better fishing in my mind. But at the same time.. losing a fly you put 20 minutes into can be a real piss off.

[bhurt]

While I agree the effort you put into realistic flies isn't likely going to put a lot more fish in your net, I take a certain pride in trying to make some of my own designs with realistism in mind. Besides if I do happen to have a good day with my own realistic patterns, I can more easily convince myself it was do to my superior tying ability and not random luck...

 

 

Hey gil,

 

On the flip side to this you say if you catch a trout on a fly that is relaistic then it was due to good ting skill and not random luck, what about good skill at fishing?

 

I absoultly refuse to spend long then 5mins on a fly and I seem to not have much problems catching trout and I say it is due to good fishing skills and not dumb luck.

[Gil]

Hey gil,

 

On the flip side to this you say if you catch a trout on a fly that is relaistic then it was due to good ting skill and not random luck, what about good skill at fishing?

 

I absoultly refuse to spend long then 5mins on a fly and I seem to not have much problems catching trout and I say it is due to good fishing skills and not dumb luck.

You are probably right. Luck has nothing to do with it. I catch a lot fish due to my superior fishing skill, as well as my superior tying ability....

[maxwell]

i started tying what i could then went too super hardcore cool realistic stuff now i just tye simple 2 or 3 material fleis that i can crank out 20-50 a hour so i can spend more time fishing and have madd amounts for me and my clients or friends too lose in trees, under rocks, fishes yaps etc........ BUT its all how u like too tye em dude! if a 40 minute nymph works better for u giver i think the casting rigging fishing method etc is WAY more crutial than the fly.. i dotn think have the best vision and in places were they get the hell fished out of them even a well presented fly cant be passed by.......

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

i dont loos too many riges (i use heavy line!) but i like to spend 20-30 min on some stone flies when the girl friend is using the xbox and tv andi have *hit all to do. But other times its all about speed if it really comes down to urgency.

[SilverDoctor]

There are some patterns that I whip out quickly but others that I spend more time on, traditional Catskill dries and Salmon and Steelhead flies can be much more time consuming. I take a certain pride and enjoyment in tying, be it a 5 minute fly or several hours. I enjoy tying which for me is a different category than fishing, often akin to meditation. We are all different and so have our own direction, which is good. But I do believe that after it leaves the bench, like Max said then it's all about casting and presentation. In the end we are, after all, presenting to a wily wild trout, not members of this board for its critical scrutiny. Have fun, experiment in tying and cast a line.

[Gil]

There are some patterns that I whip out quickly but others that I spend more time on, traditional Catskill dries and Salmon and Steelhead flies can be much more time consuming. I take a certain pride and enjoyment in tying, be it a 5 minute fly or several hours. I enjoy tying which for me is a different category than fishing, often akin to meditation. We are all different and so have our own direction, which is good. But I do believe that after it leaves the bench, like Max said then it's all about casting and presentation. In the end we are, after all, presenting to a wily wild trout, not members of this board for its critical scrutiny. Have fun, experiment in tying and cast a line.

I agree it has more to do with pride and craftmenship than simply catching fish. Beside I enjoy tying. However, in addition to my premuim flies, I do tie a fair number of SJWs, and other standard go-to flies that keeps my box full.

[flyangler]

I thought for sure that the fish came here.

 

I'm in the same boat as Maxwell and Silver Doc. Most of the time I tie to please the fish and some of the time I tie to please myself. It never hurts to try something new and give one away to your friends. If they catch fish on them, you might put one in your box, too. Or sell them to your friends!

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

What about 1/2 1/2 flys, like half stone half sjw.

[bhurt]

You know what Jeremy, I have tried diffrent varioations oif the good old SJW and have found after experimenting with a ton of diffrent types that the wire wrap SJW works the best. I think it has to do that it is nice and heavy sinks to the bottom a bonks the fish in the face when it passes by.

 

As some people say, I'm nothing but a hippie, so what do I really know.......

[agbff]

wire wrap SJW works the best.

 

 

Yeah the straight up SJW will do the job...But I think throwin in some chenille makes all the difference, Sometimes i'll wrap a big lump on the hook and then wrap wire over top to give it that band you see on worms. For me, the Sjw is for weight but why not make it look good and get some fish on it!

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

i have tied some some of these 50/50 flys and am going to give them a try today after work.

 

i went with biots on the bottem with a small yellow dubbing ball and then floss to make up the SJW body up to the apex of the 6 sjw hook and then s stone front end with lets and wings and 2 more biots for the antani.

[proflytyer]

i use about 3/4 Impressionistic and the rest realistic

[maxwell]

You know what Jeremy, I have tried diffrent varioations oif the good old SJW and have found after experimenting with a ton of diffrent types that the wire wrap SJW works the best. I think it has to do that it is nice and heavy sinks to the bottom a bonks the fish in the face when it passes by.

 

As some people say, I'm nothing but a hippie, so what do I really know.......

 

 

no your a big dumb gorilla

[bigalcal]

I think:

 

1) Presentation of the fly in the right place and drag free

 

2)Similar colour and size

 

I catch most of my cutties on a #16 Parachute Caddis and it drives everybody nuts!!

 

Then again I have never, ever caught a smart fish!!

[maxwell]

u got it mr. botangles size and sillouette too me are more important than color but color would be a close third.......

[bhurt]

I agree with most of what has been said.

 

Like others have said size (don't want to be trying to feed a trout a #12 when all its feeding on is size #16) is a big a factor, as well as sillioute.

 

I think color comes into a factor but I do not think its as big as what everyone sometimes think it is as do we really know how the trout sees that fly.....

 

I have a couple of flies that I tie which are 360 ties, this meaning the fly looks pretty much the same a complete 360 degree turn. This way no matter how it is floating through the water it always looks the same.

[toolman]

It's been my experience that color is a vital strike feature...for example... I sometimes use chenille SJW's and have them in about 5-6 different colors. Most days, the trout will selectively choose a specific color, even a specific shade and ignore the other offerings of the same pattern.

I have the same experience with verigated chenille Stoneflys, Midge Larva, Caddis Larva ect, where one color outproduced

3-4 other colors of the exact same pattern.

As for fly size, +/- a hook size of the naturals and it's close enough in my opinion. Other features such as flash, rubber legs, bead color, ribbing, ect., enhance a profiles other potential strike triggers.