While Sanjuanworm And Bron Were Working

[monger]

I was not.....and the sunrise rocked

 

[monger]

Last week the wolves were chasing the elk. This week I find that a cougar ate the mule deer. Does PETA know these mean animals are in the forest

 

[SilverDoctor]

Nice find!!

[BigFoamy]

Get a job lol!!!

[SanJuanWorm]

Wow. Take me hunting.

[monger]

Ah, it's all hiking up steep slopes and carrying heavy stuff. It's really just a bunch of work and no fun involved

 

[SilverDoctor]

Oh yummies, that is a real beauty. Nice shovels.

[Pipes]

http://www.wolfmatters.org/

 

We need to save the last of the remaining wolves here.

[monger]

Pipes, I agree that wolves have a spot to fill on the landscape. Very impressive creatures. However, I am sure the elk herds that have disappeared on the Ya Ha Tinda ranch and the caribou that are trying to exist near Grand Cache might figure a few less would be beneficial. The increased evidence of wolves from Waterton to the far north leads me to believe that the wolf population has increased significantly in the last decade. There are even wolves at Suffield now out on the prairie.

Your link didn't work for me, so I guess I will have to find some studies myself showing how the wolf population in Alberta has changed in the last 20 years.

Do you have scientific evidence showing wolf populations in Alberta are in trouble?

[Pipes]

Sorry. Completely sarcastic. There is the wolf matters organization advertising with a large sign on south end of Calgary to save alberta wolves. I find it quite ironic, as I normally spend 30 - 50 days a year in central to southern alberta. I see first hand the damage the wolves have done down here. Not reading a website like most of these wolf huggers do. Education and experience form my opinion. There is no other cause. I don't think we eliminate wolves, but they are so far out of control. So as I watch our elk and sheep populations get hammered by wolves I have to read this bloody sign every time I go back.

The minimal culls they are doing is not having an impact.

[bcubed]

Better get those damn otters too while we're at it

[monger]

Man's disruption of the environment for resource extraction has huge consequences. Unfortunately, we can't just leave the animals to figure it out after the mess we've made. Man is not going to stop taking trees and stuff out of the ground. Not pretty, but it is what it is. Wildlife management is a very complicated issue. The caribou won't make it without some help now that man has made it easier for the wolves.

Not trying to be selectively greedy Brent, but the prey species need some help when the systems are so far from where they should be.

[Dangus]

Bcube with the troll!

Ya get rid of those damn bulltrout too! They're eating all the cuttys!

 

"Wah!! *stomps feet* the wolves ate all the things I wanted to eat!"

 

Seems like real knee jerk reaction to kill the predators. The fact they can't exist is a sign of other problems but I agree that in areas of threatened caribou, culling predators buys time to remedy those problems.

 

Given my limited understanding of the situation...If you cull wolves it weakens the pack, then they go after farm animals which pisses off the farmers (who then kill more wolves). You wipe out a pack and disease runs through the heards or they destroy all the vegetation. I don't see a good option other than to preserve and restore habitat and if you don't get to hunt as much as you like, take up target practice.

 

Hugs,

The troll

[Pipes]

Thought Brent would actually grow up some day. Should just go back to his bigbadbrent title.

[Dangus]

Brentcube?

[bcubed]

Man's disruption of the environment for resource extraction has huge consequences. Unfortunately, we can't just leave the animals to figure it out after the mess we've made. Man is not going to stop taking trees and stuff out of the ground. Not pretty, but it is what it is. Wildlife management is a very complicated issue. The caribou won't make it without some help now that man has made it easier for the wolves.

Not trying to be selectively greedy Brent, but the prey species need some help when the systems are so far from where they should be.

 

 

I dont disagree with you when it comes to Caribou and development (though, dealing with the wolves and the wolves alone is not going to bring caribou back..there are a lot bigger issues at play). But if the end goal of wolf management is to make it so hunting is 'better', then where does that end? I'm all for hunting, but removing apex predators to make hunting better for people...nope. Seems pretty equivalent to the 'otters are ruining my fishing' argument to me..

 

If the last 30 years of wolves increasing is actually getting the elk/sheep/moose/whatever population back to a more appropriate equilibrium, at the cost of hunting, then so be it... Ya hunting was probably "better" 50 years ago, but was that due to an unnatural lack of predators that was originally caused by man the 50 years previous to that?

[monger]

I never said we need to cull wolves to make hunting easier. The only cull going on is for the caribou, other than that I believe there is a general season for wolves to keep numbers around 4000 or so. I don't plan on ever doing any predator hunts. I think it is great we have some apex predators around.

The wolves are incredibly good at doing their job. I'm not sure I've heard of any ungulate populations getting out of control (except Suffield) that need to be lowered by predation. It seems hard winters tend to knock back populations pretty well.

Agricultural concerns of crop predation by elk seems to get handled by late season cow elk hunting

[bcubed]

Rob, I know you weren't... Pipes on the other hand.

[Pipes]

You're just an expert on everything aren't you. pretty arbitrary on what you consider important to our natural resources. More important to protect introduced Browns by the dog park than important biological areas that hold and protect native species that travel well outside our local region of hunting opportunities.

Maybe don't read into comments so much especially if you don't understand. I know you love to troll so well done.

[Dangus]

Pipes, You're not making a great argument for culls.

Calling someone a troll for Presenting a different argument or viewpoint doesn't sway any opinions.

Makes One wonder how much thought you have actually put into it, other than "eliminate competition, better hunting!"

Just sayin man.

[Pipes]

I'm putting minimal effort in because arguing on forums never seems to accomplish anything so i stop putting the effort in.

In my posts, I didn't suggest anything about hunting opportunity or big culls. Not one suggestion. I said culls weren't working and I said I don't want to eliminate wolves. Thats what is frustrating about Brent's comments. So I guess I don't understand what troll is.....

If someone should re-read my comments.

My original comment was after spending much time over the 20 years and seeing what is currently happening, I find it crazy that people say there isn't big issues. And my point was more specific that people are publicizing the complete opposite.

That's it, that's my comments.

So big bad Brent wants to turn my comments into something they are not.

Apologize for derailing mongers post. I enjoy his contributions.

[monger]

No worries Pipes. It is a good topic to discuss. Finding solutions to keep most people happy and that make sense beyond emotion is challenging. Sheep populations seem to be under quite a bit of stress. Hopefully a long term management plan can be created/implemented that allows them to thrive

[Dangus]

Sorry I didn't know the history behind it.

[Swede]

I've been camping and fishing the Ya haw Tinda and ram river areas all my life, Used to be able to stop and glass the elk up on top of the foothills all along the forestry trunk road. Honestly cant remember the last time I've seen a elk out in that country. Its a dam shame.