Nymphing And Whitefish

[wheels]

I've been trying to learn how to successfully nymph for a few years now, and I've gotten to the point where I can usually catch fish, but all I ever seem to catch are whitefish. It doesn't really matter which water body I'm fishing, it's usually whitefish that I end up hooking.

Just wondering if I might be doing something wrong or different that would cause me to avoid trout so consistently?

Are whitefish just more forgiving to bad technique, or do they hang out closer to the bottom?

[threepwood]

It's my understanding that whitefish and trout are often in different places in the river and the water column. As a rule, whitefish tend to stay in deeper, slower water than trout. Try a slightly shallower drift, and if it's not winter move out from the slowest, deepest pools. You can nymph in water that is quite shallow.

[Dangus]

Deeper and slower?! I was going to say shallower and faster!

[WyomingGeorge]

Whitefish tend to feed a bit less selectively than trout, hang out in pods and are physically less aggressive, so rule #1: when you hook a whitefish, MOVE because chances are a) there are 10 more right beside him and the trout are either feeding elsewhere or hanging out not feeding.

 

At this time of year the trout will move into faster and shallower water, and by mid-summer will be in the fastest chop you find on the Bow, as well as along the banks. Some of the very biggest fish will be in slow, glassy, shallow water because they are no longer vulnerable to ospreys and can feed without expending energy. In water like that a whitefish would last just minutes before being lifted away to its doom.

[wheels]

Whitefish tend to feed a bit less selectively than trout, hang out in pods and are physically less aggressive, so rule #1: when you hook a whitefish, MOVE because chances are a) there are 10 more right beside him and the trout are either feeding elsewhere or hanging out not feeding.

 

At this time of year the trout will move into faster and shallower water, and by mid-summer will be in the fastest chop you find on the Bow, as well as along the banks. Some of the very biggest fish will be in slow, glassy, shallow water because they are no longer vulnerable to ospreys and can feed without expending energy. In water like that a whitefish would last just minutes before being lifted away to its doom.

So generally speaking, whitefish and trout do not feed in the same section of water?

[bcubed]

So generally speaking, whitefish and trout do not feed in the same section of water?

They'll share a run, but it's pretty rare to get a whitefish and trout in back to back casts without moving. I agree with everything George was saying.

 

Also, in the conditions post you said you got your fish on a worm. It's probably not much of a guess to say you're always worming? Whiteys love the worm

[wheels]

They'll share a run, but it's pretty rare to get a whitefish and trout in back to back casts without moving. I agree with everything George was saying.

 

Also, in the conditions post you said you got your fish on a worm. It's probably not much of a guess to say you're always worming? Whiteys love the worm

Actually my fly of choice is usually the prince. I typically use that or a pheasant tail. We had tried most of the usual flies throughout the morning. My sister switched to a worm and caught a whitefish, so I switched to one as well just so I could possibly catch something

[bcubed]

I typically find whiteys in the back end of the buckets, and trout up at the tops. Fish faster and shallower then you'd expect... You'll be surprised In how little and how fast trout want. particularly in summer

[WyomingGeorge]

Right, the prince nymph is pretty much the whitey's favourite fly. For trout on the Bow you might just need to get a little more technical: smaller and more imitative BWO patterns like lightning bugs, midge patterns down to #20, caddis pupae and larva patterns, copper john's, etc. It's amazing how giant trout will often ignore a worm or a stone and instead eat something tiny. Of course, trout do eat the bigger patterns as well. As Bcube says, it's often where you position yourself in the feature that counts the most...but the right fly is also important when the trout are keying in on a hatch.

[bcubed]

Or just fish a sex dungeon 100% of the time..that'll keep the whitefish at bay

[WyomingGeorge]

One time I was being crushed by whitefish in a river full of wonderful trout. Hours of nymphing, nothing but whitefish. I started streamer fishing, went without a strike for probably two hours, and finally hooked a solid fish. I declared, "If that f---- thing's a whitefish, I quit fishing for all time." Turned out to be the only whitefish I've ever caught on a streamer.

[bcubed]

ya, i managed to have one eat a size 2 JJ special ripped back to the boat...they get a little creative sometimes trying to figure out how they're going to fit that into it's mouth

[wheels]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I can't wait to get out again to try some of the suggestions. At the end of the day, I'd rather catch 5 whitefish and no trout than catch nothing at all.

[SilverDoctor]

Whitefish are also an indicator of a healthy fishery.

[FlyFishingEMT]

Last week I was catching whitefish on dry flies in a central ab river. First one was on an elk hair caddis then for fun I put a skidbitch on and caught a bunch more.

 

I devised a scoring system that keeps things interesting:

 

trout: +1

trout >20 inches: +2

whitefish: -1

whitefish >20 inches: -2

sucker: -5

calling whitefish a trout before netting: -5

calling sucker a trout before netting: forfeit

 

I usually finish a day in the red if I pull the nymph rig out.

[Dangus]

Oh come on...A whitefish over 20 should get a little respect!

weve always had whites at a neg 1 but a 3lb whitey still brings a bit of a smile to my face.

[BigFoamy]

I nymph a lot, its how I learned. I catch the odd Whitey now and then but, mainly its Trout. That said, I go against the grain on leader length. I believe the general rule is to use a leader twice as long as the water is deep. I can't do that. If I'm fishing a 3 nymph rig, it will be less than 9' to the last fly and will end up moving the indy sooner than later. I always fish a short leader unless the situation dictates change, typically 6ish' or less from indy to last fly. Last time out I had a buddy dredging bottom, he managed two. I managed 17, fishing short. Way more control and feel as well. give it a try.

 

Try not using a San Juan either (if you use one), whiteys love the worm. Use a weighted Jimmy Legs or a big stonefly nymph to get it down. Or a Bead head PT tied in a size 10 or 12.

[MattyTaylor]

I'm going to rig up a setup like you described BigFoamy... you've piqued my curiosity. A couple questions if you'll oblige:

 

Do you still position your largest/heaviest fly at the top?

Do you tie your own leaders? Typically what do you have going into your top fly - 2X range? Or do you just hack a leader back and tie on a foot or two of the required tippet?

Then what, 8ish inches between the next two flies assuming they're small nymphs? Trying to figure out the safe way to economize on the trailing nymphs.

 

Appreciate it, very interested. I'm growing tired of chucking 10+ feet of knot potential.

[BigFoamy]

First off I would like to state that I'm a self taught hack, no professional going on here Im a pure feel player.

 

Yes i do still position my BIG fly at the top of my rig. Ive never really had a reason to change that position. Still tie off the bend as well. Its just easy and effective.

 

No I do not tie my own leaders. I buy the 3 packs if you can get them, Rio 9' 3x. Start the indy about 2' down the leader. I typically tie on 4x to the leader then go first fly, if I start breaking off I will go 1st fly right onto the leader or attach 3x. Ive never used 2x tippet in my life or split shot or a swivel. The lighter the tippet the faster the flies sink.

 

8" is getting a little tight for me but, I'm sure it would work. Im keeping it 12ish but that varies as we go and break off and switch flies and such.

 

On top of all that I mend like mofo, Im constantly working the tip of the rod and the line. I like to keep it as tight as possible and still get the drift required. Theres a lot of body movement and *hit going on lol!!!

[wheels]

I nymph a lot, its how I learned. I catch the odd Whitey now and then but, mainly its Trout. That said, I go against the grain on leader length. I believe the general rule is to use a leader twice as long as the water is deep. I can't do that. If I'm fishing a 3 nymph rig, it will be less than 9' to the last fly and will end up moving the indy sooner than later. I always fish a short leader unless the situation dictates change, typically 6ish' or less from indy to last fly. Last time out I had a buddy dredging bottom, he managed two. I managed 17, fishing short. Way more control and feel as well. give it a try.

 

Try not using a San Juan either (if you use one), whiteys love the worm. Use a weighted Jimmy Legs or a big stonefly nymph to get it down. Or a Bead head PT tied in a size 10 or 12.

With a shorter rig, I'm guessing you do not get a lot of false bumps on the indicator (when it hits a rock or bottom), and instead when the indicator moves it's typically a fish?

[BigFoamy]

With a shorter rig, I'm guessing you do not get a lot of false bumps on the indicator (when it hits a rock or bottom), and instead when the indicator moves it's typically a fish?

 

As soon as I start to drag and hit stuff I move my indy down the leader. I want it as straight up and down as possible and floating, that can't happen if you're dragging your hooks off of stuff. She's a fine line though, the flies do need to be in the zone and fish like structure. You just have to feel/bob and weave your way around. As previously stated, I'm a pure feel player.

[MattyTaylor]

Gotcha, thanks for the info, I'll play around with shortening things and work on the feel side of things.

[Dangus]

I think people use that "rule" and forget how much weight they have on their line. The reason why you fish deeper than the water is to account for arc in your line. If you're fishing a super heavy system, like a wire worm, and mending correctly, it's going to hang down more vertically. Typically guys are running a heavy fly and another bead headed thing. Those flies are going to be straight down dragging in the muck.

 

Tapping bottom constantly is just going to have you ripping line on the water, snagging up and spooking fish. One or two taps a drift max, preferably a tap every couple of casts.

Much easier for a fish to pick up a fly 3-6+" off bottom than one running right on it. I'd bet they don't hit anything right on bottom, or their snouts would be chewed up. A whitefish on the other hand...much different anatomy.

That's not to say whites won't eat like trout, they take drys and streamers, but they can take stuff off the bottom more readily.

[David]

Lots of great information in this thread. Thanks!