Poaching In Alberta Is Trending In The Wrong Direction.

[jpinkster]

Poaching in Alberta hit a 5 year high last year:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/field-notes/poaching-in-alberta-reaches-five-year-high-0

 

A few points about this article:

 

- The most concerning thing for me is that poaching rates only accounts for cases that enforcement can document. How many more are happening that go undetected? I suspect we don't want to know.

 

- The article references the Oldman River poaching case from last year. I was in the courtroom for those proceedings, and they were shocking to say the least. The Crown seems entirely out of touch with just how critical of an issue poaching is.

 

- Enforcement and education are the only way to get this sorted out. We need more boots on the ground to enforce the rules. We also need more education for all user groups. The average person doesn't have a clue what the fishing regulations are in an area. What if that changed? Large regulatory signage at entry points could give the general public a better idea of what is allowed and what isn't. "Eyes on the water" typically refers to anglers, but what if that were expanded to other user groups? If more folks could clearly pick out illegal activity, wouldn't there be a higher uptake of calls to RAP?

 

I think collectively we can do a whole lot better than this.

[flywiz]

I think signs are a good idea for the honest mistakes, when I was at a multispecies lake last yr talking to some real nice fellas, they had the trout species confused, so I helped them out; they meant well, great guys, but I think some of the big signs like in k-country showing real trout pix and ID can help

 

I also had a 70 yo neighbour, great guy in every respect, but with fishing, he thought he could just go down the bow, and fish, with powerbait, didn't know any different, someone told him it was fine, he got fined, as he should, but sad part is turned him off, will never fish again he said, maybe a sign would have helped, maybe not if it wasn't right where he was standing

 

I think signs can help the honest mistakes, but I assume most poaching isn't about the honest mistakes...there are folks who just don't care, and RAP is a great tool, but it can be tough in the backcountry where some guys poach bull trout and eat them on site; I saw a few of these makeshift "ovens" last summer with large entrails, tinfoil laying there in a crumple amongst a few jigs, discarded line, and powerbait close by;

 

how fast can RAP get into the backcountry if I ever came across one of these "chefs" and I'm a few km away from a road, and it is a no ATV zone?

 

[monger]

I think the actual amount of poaching that goes on is staggering. The lack of funding directed toward enforcement in our province allows those with greedy desires to do pretty much whatever they want. There seems to be a slowly increasing number of folks who actually care about limiting their consumption of wildlife, but I think they are still vastly in the minority.

[SanJuanWorm]

The CO today said its amazing how much of it goes on around the city.

[FlyTrapper]

The CO today said its amazing how much of it goes on around the city.

Elbow below the dam would be a hot spot, I have called RAP three times in the last two years, and I go there maybe five times a year.

 

Nick

[snuffy]

I got one today 😊

[jpinkster]

I'll throw out an idea:

 

We pride ourselves on being a natural resource based economy in this province. Why is it that things like forests, oil and gas and minerals fall under the heading of "natural resources" but wildlife does not? I'd argue that a native population of grizzly bears have just as much of a right to be classified as a natural resource as a natural gas reservoir. How different would things be if we viewed wildlife through this lens?

[albertatrout]

More people in Alberta, especially those from other parts of Canada/ other countries where poaching does not have much of a negative connotation to it coupled with the existing poachers, and lack of new enforcement has been bad news brewing for years. An uptick in RAP calls does not achieve much when there's nobody around to go investigate. My last rap call was taken by an answering machine and they called for follow up weeks later, not much good. Need bigger fines and more feet on the ground. Also, fish need to be taken serious in all regions. There are areas where the officers are so busy checking grizzly traps and hunters they don't really know the stream closures/ rules. First hand experience there when reporting poachers on permanently closed streams.

 

As for uptick in the grizzly poaching in particular, there's a reason the government is not releasing the promised data/ plans scheduled to be made public last fall. More people and more bears aren't always going to work out in all areas. We are often recreating in bear saturated habitat, poaching will continue to spike as long as bear aware education is still uncommon and people are too scared to report even legit self defense kills to the crown. Lot's of bone heads out there with no respect for wildlife shooting just for the heck of it as well but I think that species issues have a bit more to it than just a few more poachers.

[Pipes]

I think a couple above comments are exactly right. More people equals more issues happening. I think poaching has been prevalent for decades / century old problem. There is clearly a gap in concern / understanding of the issue. Many people 40 - 50 and older have a hard time wrapping their head around catch and release. Many it was a way to feed the family. Other people just don't see it as a big deal, and in some cases maybe it isn't impactful. There lies the ultimate issue. How does one get these people to care. I don't have the answer. how impactful is it? Are we seeing extirpation in any species because of this?

 

I guess I'm getting a little irritated with people clipping media links without any diligence behind the statements (jpinkster). A fact of social media and lack of responsibility really. There is so little information included in this article to even formulate opinion. I would argue (until seeing actual stats) that per capita, we are seeing more poaching. I would hazard an uneducated guess that we are seeing more people reported and more people out hunting and fishing. The second comment I would ask, is what infractions are we talking about? Clearly define poaching for me. If someone shoots at a charging grizzly and is charged with using a restricted weapon, does that become poaching? If one mistakenly identifies an animal is that poaching?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do not condone any activity that is illegal in any fashion. But this article reeks of eliciting emotional reaction. By that, I mean a picture and reference to grizzly bear and how much in jeopardy some groups claim they are. I'm just tired of all these articles and links not telling the whole truth and general population getting upset, but yet not doing anything about it.

[BurningChrome]

- Enforcement and education are the only way to get this sorted out. We need more boots on the ground to enforce the rules. We also need more education for all user groups. The average person doesn't have a clue what the OHV regulations are in an area. What if that changed? Large regulatory signage at entry points could give the general public a better idea of what is allowed and what isn't. "Eyes on the water" typically refers to anglers, but what if that were expanded to other user groups? If more folks could clearly pick out illegal activity, wouldn't there be a higher uptake of calls to AEP?

Fixed it for you.

[fishteck]

Interesting discussion here. There are only 2 conservation officers under the Alberta Solicitor General's control for the region from Calgary south east to Bassano. How can these officers ever hope to catch a poacher in his/her tracks. The vigilante approach suggested in other discussions wont work either.

 

When I was guiding for an outfitter on the Bow in the nineties, he would throw a big hook across any bait fishing lines when approaching Carsland, pull them to the bank, go and confront the fishermen. He would ask for driving licenses and say that the fishing gear and driving license was being confiscated. To my knowledge he never followed through with the action, but you sure would see frightened individuals! I used to drop the anchor and watch what was going on. The clients were often shocked as you can understand. A very entertaining end to a days fishing. Unfortunately, this was never the end of the fishing expeditions for the bait fishermen, you would more often than not see the same individuals in the same spots a few days later.

 

Will signs work? I don't think so, By the time a fisherman has reached the water's edge his mind is set on what and how he/she is going to behave. Very much the same actions of motorist, cyclist, dog owners in the city.

 

The moral here is, "Good behaviour by oneself is the the only gratitude".

[jpinkster]

I think a couple above comments are exactly right. More people equals more issues happening. I think poaching has been prevalent for decades / century old problem. There is clearly a gap in concern / understanding of the issue. Many people 40 - 50 and older have a hard time wrapping their head around catch and release. Many it was a way to feed the family. Other people just don't see it as a big deal, and in some cases maybe it isn't impactful. There lies the ultimate issue. How does one get these people to care. I don't have the answer. how impactful is it? Are we seeing extirpation in any species because of this?

 

I guess I'm getting a little irritated with people clipping media links without any diligence behind the statements (jpinkster). A fact of social media and lack of responsibility really. There is so little information included in this article to even formulate opinion. I would argue (until seeing actual stats) that per capita, we are seeing more poaching. I would hazard an uneducated guess that we are seeing more people reported and more people out hunting and fishing. The second comment I would ask, is what infractions are we talking about? Clearly define poaching for me. If someone shoots at a charging grizzly and is charged with using a restricted weapon, does that become poaching? If one mistakenly identifies an animal is that poaching?

You know, not to name names or anything.

 

I didn't provide an endorsement of the article, I simply raised it. The points I raised were my perspectives and experience on this file.

 

Whether poaching incidents are rising all together, or rising per capita...does it really matter? The only thing that matters to our fish populations is that incidents of poaching are rising, period.

 

If we keep making excuses for this behavior, we'll never get to the bottom of it. Anglers have a proud legacy of self regulation. There are always going to be bad apples in the bunch, but that requires the rest of us to be that much more vigilant.

 

Or you know, we can keep making excuses and see what happens.

[Pipes]

But you can't tell me if the incidents of poaching are rising or not. Unless you have proof which is nearly impossible. As I said, poaching has been going on for years. Albertans decimated walleye populations in the 1970s and 1980s. This article is not proof. It only mentions the number of poaching and wildlife infractions are at a FIVE YEAR high. So maybe 6 years ago they were higher and we got better?

I assume by all your posting of links, that you endorse them. Even though, you don't necessarily understand the whole picture of topic. I understand you are trying to create social awareness, but it's typical of social media to have social awareness but no social responsibility. I class this the same as LDicaprio.

Your posting of the gas leak link and griping about fish toxicity is total bogus.

So yeah, I'm calling you out.

Agreed, I can do nothing and see what happens. I didn't say poaching doesn't bother me or that I don't do anything about it. What I said is look at all the facts. I donated significantly to the streamwatch program that was on here years ago. I also do other initiatives. Problem is, there is only so much time and money. I have chosen causes specifically that I can make an impactful difference. One is land reclamation on a global front, which I have mentioned previously. I also work very actively for childrens cancer care and multiple sclerosis society. I am also trying to run my energy business which is seeing its worst crisis in history.

 

A lot of people who are not fisherman find it hard to understand why a fisherman would want to protect the fish species if not for personal satisfaction. The irony is not lost on me that we as fisherman harm fish each and every time we go out, yet we are crying to save populations of fish that were dumped into our rivers. I have a hard time justifying it myself.

 

So good for you for taking a day out and sitting in a court room to say how bad poaching is. What would be more meaningful to me, would be, you posting educated unbias information and then go on about your ideas and actions on how you think we can solve this situation.

[jpinkster]

I assume by all your posting of links, that you endorse them. Even though, you don't necessarily understand the whole picture of topic. I understand you are trying to create social awareness, but it's typical of social media to have social awareness but no social responsibility. I class this the same as LDicaprio.

Your posting of the gas leak link and griping about fish toxicity is total bogus.

 

Therein lies your problem; blind assumptions. I'm VERY well aware of the fact that I don't have all of the answers. I also appreciate the fact that a fresh perspective isn't always an informed perspective. At no point in my gas leak post did I suggest that I knew the science behind any of it. I post articles and ask questions. I often leave a post with more information than I started. That is a very good thing. The more informed folks, yourself included, are a wealth of knowledge that I am privileged to tap into.

 

If your assumption is that I endorse every article I post, that's your problem. I'm prepared to listen when someone tells me that I don't have all of the information or that my perspective isn't correct.

[threepwood]

But you can't tell me if the incidents of poaching are rising or not. Unless you have proof which is nearly impossible. As I said, poaching has been going on for years. Albertans decimated walleye populations in the 1970s and 1980s. This article is not proof. It only mentions the number of poaching and wildlife infractions are at a FIVE YEAR high. So maybe 6 years ago they were higher and we got better?

I assume by all your posting of links, that you endorse them. Even though, you don't necessarily understand the whole picture of topic. I understand you are trying to create social awareness, but it's typical of social media to have social awareness but no social responsibility. I class this the same as LDicaprio.

Your posting of the gas leak link and griping about fish toxicity is total bogus.

So yeah, I'm calling you out.

Agreed, I can do nothing and see what happens. I didn't say poaching doesn't bother me or that I don't do anything about it. What I said is look at all the facts. I donated significantly to the streamwatch program that was on here years ago. I also do other initiatives. Problem is, there is only so much time and money. I have chosen causes specifically that I can make an impactful difference. One is land reclamation on a global front, which I have mentioned previously. I also work very actively for childrens cancer care and multiple sclerosis society. I am also trying to run my energy business which is seeing its worst crisis in history.

 

A lot of people who are not fisherman find it hard to understand why a fisherman would want to protect the fish species if not for personal satisfaction. The irony is not lost on me that we as fisherman harm fish each and every time we go out, yet we are crying to save populations of fish that were dumped into our rivers. I have a hard time justifying it myself.

 

So good for you for taking a day out and sitting in a court room to say how bad poaching is. What would be more meaningful to me, would be, you posting educated unbias information and then go on about your ideas and actions on how you think we can solve this situation.

[BurningChrome]

The article isn't even about the amount of poaching overall, but the amount of poaching infractions actually found - either via someone being caught and fined, or discovery of an animal carcass. There's no way of knowing (at least not from the info provided) if the increase is due to increased population, increased enforcement (didn't they hire more officers last year?), or something else. There just isn't enough to go on from what was provided, though the articles and accompanying headlines kind of lead you to believe that everything is terrible because that sells papers or drives clicks.

 

The last sentence in the linked article seems to sum it up:

"Despite the inflated number of poaching incidents, spokesperson Cox said that there’s no immediate need for alarm."

[Pipes]

Therein lies your problem; blind assumptions. I'm VERY well aware of the fact that I don't have all of the answers. I also appreciate the fact that a fresh perspective isn't always an informed perspective. At no point in my gas leak post did I suggest that I knew the science behind any of it. I post articles and ask questions. I often leave a post with more information than I started. That is a very good thing. The more informed folks, yourself included, are a wealth of knowledge that I am privileged to tap into.

 

If your assumption is that I endorse every article I post, that's your problem. I'm prepared to listen when someone tells me that I don't have all of the information or that my perspective isn't correct.

No my problem is that you post links and then offer up opinion without the effort of trying to understand. To your quote:

 

"Sounds like it was a minor leak and that there is no risk to the public. I don't think the public includes fish."

 

Doesn't sound like a post and question. Sounds like post and answer.

 

I appreciate your concerns on a variety of topics, but I question and challenge your tactics which I assume is also fair game when someone posts a topic, but clearly I'm out of line. I guess I'm too old to understand the whole social media thing.

[jpinkster]

"Sounds like it was a minor leak and that there is no risk to the public. I don't think the public includes fish."

 

Doesn't sound like a post and question. Sounds like post and answer.

 

I appreciate your concerns on a variety of topics, but I question and challenge your tactics which I assume is also fair game when someone posts a topic, but clearly I'm out of line. I guess I'm too old to understand the whole social media thing.

An answer to what? I don't see a statement being made in either direction. The post stimulated a conversation and the conversation revealed that there is nothing to be concerned about. That was the intention, and I was pleased to see some of the very detailed information that was provided.

 

You aren't out of line, I just think you're suggesting I'm doing something that I'm not.

[fishteck]

I'll add my 10 cents worth!

I have always had the belief that barbless hooks, photo fish handling and release techniques, disease and the environment cause more mortality than the fish that are taken illegally. Not to say that any loss of fish by what ever means needs to be reduced.

 

Nevertheless, it is up to us as individuals to believe whatever " science based research" we wish to subscribe to. Unfortunately the majority of fish biological research is more of a survey nature with inadequate variable control, therefore the results are only a time slot of what is taking place in the field. Fish seem to have the ability to maintain populations from what ever stress we place on them for our own enjoyment and abuse. Case in point is the Bow River. The rainbow and brown trout populations go up and down over the years. Have fish harvest quotas and illegal fishing techniques influenced long term survival?

[TroutPanther]

I appreciate the links jpinkster, keep em coming (even if once in a while, like the gas leak in the bow, they may be inconsequential!)

[fishnerd]

I noticed a lot of poaching near the highwood of bull trout should send some more wild life officeres

[SilverDoctor]

Did you report it?