FlyTrapper Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Hi guys, as I'm sure most of you know, I am very new to tying. My interest has shifted to tying some dry flies and in particular, Elk Hair Caddis. There has been a couple questions I have been wondering about, and I was hoping someone could shed some light on the subject. The first question is about hackle on the fly. Today I purchased a bag of saddle hackle to use, however I am using size 14-16 hooks, and the hackle is huge, even using the smallest feathers I can find in the bag, is there a way guys make their hackle smaller? The fly looks awful with the large hackle I have right now. My second question is regarding thread. I am using Tan UTC 70. Whenever I go to tighten down on the elk hair, or even pull just a little too hard the thread breaks. Is the problem that I am pulling too hard or is there a chance my bobbin is damaging the thread? It is getting a little annoying as I cannot get enough pressure on the thread to get the elk hair to stay in place. As well, if anyone has any other tips on tying Caddis or any other dry fly it would greatly appreciated. Thank you! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcubed Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Suspect your bobbin is screwed if you're breaking UTC 70 that easily. That stuff is tough, and should easily handle any trout fly. Also, dig through your saddle and find any of the real small fibres. Otherwise it sounds like you ended up with a bit of a wooly bugger version. You'll want to make sure you buy 'dry fly' saddles, or something similar, otherwise you'll have issues. You can trim the fibres, but it's not going to look as good. Also, don't be afraid to tie them with Deer hair. I find they float better and easier to tie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I think EHC look fine with trimmed hackle. Fish don't care either. Trim barbs to length before wrapping. Also get some dry fly hackle for other patterns. They don't look so good with trimmed hackle. I actually find EHC work better without the hackle anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastBoyScout Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I find fresh Deer/Elk hair is not as brittle, older hair is a pain and new stuff is inexpensive. I like to put the wing on in two bunches, makes the handling easier and seems to end up requiring less thread wraps to finish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muha Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 When you wrap your thread on hook, add a thin strip of foam (length of hook shank), tie it on top. This will give you extra "bite" when you cinch down elk hair. You can also put 3-4 wraps of thread on elk hair (same spot where you would tie it onto hook), make it snug an as your pulling it tighter bring it to hook shank an tie it down. This will keep elk hair from spinning. Another good method is to put some dubbing prior to tying down elk. Instead of expensive hackle use CDC feather. Cut off barbs from stem, splice your thread and spin some cdc barbs than wrap it on collar instead of hackle. This will give your fly more appeal when fishing slower water an it also holds well in riffles. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hi FlyTrapper, You can use longer saddle hackles and shorten it, jut put it into a dubbing loop and adjust & cut to the right length, then wrap like regular hackle. This is how I did it before custom genetic hackle came along. Genetic hackle although more expensive goes a long way and is much easier to work with as the stem is more consistent and finer for wrapping. A far as the thread breaking there are 2 things you can look at, first your bobbin, be sure it's not cutting your thread at the tube end, steel bobbins are notorious for doing this over time. As you tie you sharpen the edges of the tube and add gouges. Ceramic tubes are the ticket. The second and more important is learning thread control. Spend some time wrapping on a bare hook and applying pressure to see where the breaking point of the thread is, get a feel for it before tying. It also helps to start with loose wraps and slowly apply more pressure as you go and flair. Winter deer hair can often "Cut" thread, summer is finer and easier to work with when you are starting out. Look for Costal deer hair or elk, its easier to work with and more suited to smaller patterns. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyTrapper Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Thank you for all the suggestions in here guys, I will try them out and see what works best. Going to go and buy a ceramic bobbin, almost certain that the steel one I have now is the issue. Thank you again. Edit: I just stopped by the shop and grabbed a whiting 100 pack grizzly. Crazy expensive on some of those products. Bought a ceramic bobbin as well, no breakage. Tied up a tester EHC and it worked great. The hackle is waaaay nicer to deal with, you get what you pay for. Again thank you for all the advice. Nick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcubed Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Just know that with that expensive hackle, you don't need much. Literally called a 100 pack as you should easily get 100 flies out of it. Back your hackle up with small wire and you'll definitely get your money's worth 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flywiz Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think EHC look fine with trimmed hackle. Fish don't care either. Trim barbs to length before wrapping. Also get some dry fly hackle for other patterns. They don't look so good with trimmed hackle. I actually find EHC work better without the hackle anyway. I agree about the hackle on elk hair caddis on bow river trout, take a look at goldenstone flyfishing's page below and check out the fly tying section, his EHC has no hackle, nor does a cdc and elk...sparseness can be a good thing on many patterns esp where these trout are seeing more flies than ever I think; During stonefly season, I've seen the same large trout come up and refuse a chernobyl ant a few times, only to take a narrower foam version http://goldenstone.ca/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokerfish Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 this is a easy and very productive alternative to the ehc. i tie it with deer hair sizes 12 to 18. usually no legs. best floater ever. butch caddis - kelly galloup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyfisher Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Thanks Pokerfish. Neat idea on the caddis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyTrapper Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Thanks for the link Flywiz! I actually have their winter articles bookmarked but I had no idea they had tying instructions and what not! That looks like an awesome pattern Pokerfish thank you! I will be trying that in the near future, like the look of it a lot! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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