Pontoon Frame Dangers

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

Over the past number of years a bunch of us have had pontoon boat frame failures. They are happening on the same spot. The frame failures were on many manufacturers of boats. I've broken two - a Bucks and an Outcast. Others have had Water Skeeter frames go. The frames have been of both aluminum and steel. The Outcast 9 IR below is my frame.

When the frame breaks it rolls the tube upward on the failure side making the oars impossible to use.

Below is a upside down view of the failure point.

 

 

 

This is a closue up of the failure. Note that the rust if quite new.

 

 

 

And below is the opposite side of the failure which looks like it is about to fail as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

take care and please check out your boats.

 

regards,

 

 

Don

 

[sraak]

Have you had issues with stainless steel?

[DonAndersen]

The only stainless frames I'm aware of are made by Bucks. The only guy I know with one has had no issues with the frame. Tubes are a different story.

 

Don

[ÜberFly]

I had a buddy re-weld the same spot on my waterskeeter. If you catch it soon enough you can get it beefed up...

 

P

[Lenny]

I also have been using the IR 9 how old is your boat my welds look ok so far my unit is seven years old and has seen lots of water.

[Taco]

Donny puts 100+ days a yr on his toon and rows like he's pullin' a wake boarder...

 

 

 

 

just sayin'

[bjbailey]

Thanks for the heads up Don. This is great to know. I'll be checking my pontoon before taking it out!

[Crowsnest]

Donny puts 100+ days a yr on his toon and rows like he's pullin' a wake boarder...

 

 

 

 

just sayin'

Donny should spend less time 'rowin' and more time 'trollin'

[LastBoyScout]

Thanks I'll be giving my 9 a good look before I hit the water as well

[DonAndersen]

Donny Don't troll. He casts. Only guys from Edmonton troll - flies that is. Other than that, they are straight shooters.

 

And I put 90+ days a year on my boats.

 

My Outcast 9 IR was rewelded as well. I know that one Skeeter was also welded. I got my Bucks welded and it failed again as did Cody's weld job. Reweld at your own peril. If you place a straps completely around the shaft and tack it to both the side and seat TEE, it should hold. Note the should part.

 

The failures are in the design. A butt weld is the poorest in terms of strength. Pontoon boats are great ideas with poor design..

 

regards,

 

Don

[Tpetey]

I had the exact same problem with my 10ir. Outcast replaced free of charge, I did pay a little extra to get it shipped next day so I could be back on the water. Keep an eye on those connections.

[sraak]

Don - I have a stainless frame on my Bucks Pontoon, after three seasons it looks good. It is a two person pontoon though so the frame has quite a few cross members.

 

I wonder if it's a fatigue issue in addition to corrosion, my understanding is that stainless generally has a better fatigue characteristics than carbon steel.

[Crowsnest]

Does this mean the end of 'The Office', Donny's christened boat ?

 

For a new boat name, I suggest "Troll me knot"

[murray]

Don, thanks for the heads up. I have 2 boats in the garage that I will check tonight.

 

 

[DonAndersen]

Crow...

 

The tubes for the "Office" will no longer hold air. The top material is "breathing" with many small holes. The bottoms are still solid. The frames used on the Office tubes were both a Bucks and Outcast 9IR. Both broke. The Bucks twice, the Outcast is hanging in the garage after welding.

I replaced them both with a Outcast 800 two years ago when I sold most of my guns. Then I bought a Scadden Escape as a back up when I travel. A month or so ago, Wholesale had a deal on another Outcast 800 for $574.00. Damn is we aren't up to a 6 boat family again.

Too old to wait for parts. Ain't as much time left as gone. If something breaks I just fetch another from storage and deal with the breakage later.

 

And Crow - "Troll Me Not" - you are kidding right. What is the point of forums if trolling is a non-acceptable action. And if you buy decent rods, you don't have to troll. And that ,my friend is a "troll".

 

 

 

Don.

[FZR]

Thanks for the heads up Don. Aluminum does not rust. That frame is steel. The welds failed in the heat affected zone of the parent metal, probably in fatigue. Did you ask Outcast for help?

 

Frank

[DonAndersen]

Frank,

 

Contacted Fishin' Hole who sold me the frame and sent pictures - waited 6 months for a response and contacted Outcast and sent pictures. As the frame + components were bought w/o tubes there was no warranty. They told me that they warrantied the tubes only.

They also told me that a new frame was $150 + freight. Welding the offending parts back together $90.00.

 

And I've broke too many aluminum pipe wrenches over the years. Unlike steel, they don't bend - just break. Steel generally tells you when you have over loaded it. Aluminum will not give you a rust line indicating impending failure. The only line you'll get in in your shorts when the frame goes pop.

 

regards,

 

 

Don

[FZR]

Thanks Don,

 

I have two Outcast 800 boats and an Outcast 8D. They have not given me any trouble but I do not get as many days on the water as you do. My previous boats did have steel frames with smaller diameter tubes and I always thought they were too flexible. If I take anything away from this conversation it is to look for larger diameter tube so the stress concentrations at the welds are reduced.

 

I agree with you that aluminum is generally less ductile than steel. However, with tube products, the alloys and manufacturing methods make a huge difference on how they perform. It is tough to say what to expect for failure modes. In any event I agree that these failures are a fault by design or poor welding practice.

 

It seems new frame parts are less expensive than the cost of upgrading to a boat with larger tubes. So it might still be worthwhile to save money by going with smaller tubes. That is if the safety issue is not considered. That is not for me so I am happy you shared this information.

[muha]

Instead of welding it over old joint, could you maybe locate a t-sleeve of some sort ( chain link fence, city bus hand rail....), clamp that over broken joints and tack weld. Should keep you on water few more seasons.

[FZR]

Hello muha,

 

There are too many variables at play to give you a simple answer. This is complicated by the fact that the original equipment manufacturer's design or quality processes were not adequate for the service. You have alluded to this fact by suggesting that welding over the old weld is likely not a sustainable solution. I agree with that observation and suggest that you are on the right track by trying to modify the construction at the joint. I cannot tell you exactly how to do that. Instead I will offer you some steps to determine the correct repair method.

 

First, contact the manufacturer and see if they will share some technical information. You need to figure out how to weld the parent material to the repair without compromise to either material. To do so you will need to know the tubing chemistry and dimensions. That is normally provided by stating a material class (ASTM or some other standard) and a statement of outside diameter and wall thickness. Next you should ask them for a recommendation for a weld procedure. Finally, you should know if the joint was stress relieved (PWHT = Post Weld Heat Treatment). With this information in hand you can visit your welder and select the materials and welding method to provide an appropriate repair.

 

That said I can suggest a couple of things to consider for the repair. Once the old weld is ground out (you don't put a new bandage over an old bandage) then the hole will be bigger than the cross bar. So some method of patching the hole is necessary. A reinforcing pad rolled to suit the outside diameter of the main tube could be fashioned with a short length of tube attached that will form a socket to receive the cross bar. The fit of all the parts should be close tolerance so that they are tight before welding. The pad is then welded to the main bar and the cross bar is welded into the socket. Alternatively I would think about replacing the section of the main tube with one of a larger diameter. I would make it long enough to capture at least both cross bars and maybe longer if some other members might impart a torsion on the main tube. The front and back frame parts could be cut and inserted into the new main frame tube segments and socket welded in place. In all cases the final fit up must be true and square to avoid introducing racking or twisting under load. Don't forget to prime and paint the raw steel to avoid rusting.

 

Or if the new frames are only $150 then buy two and throw them away each time they fail. Or maybe upgrade to a higher quality product? That seems easier to me.

[muha]

I don't know much about welding, tackled a few minor jobs, that's about it. You sir have a whole different view on this, very informative, thanks for the input.

[FZR]

Muha, you are very polite. Thanks for your patience in reading all that! Sorry for the long winded answer. I am an engineer and any advice I give becomes my personal liability. I have many colleagues in court for years because they gave a partial answer based on unqualified assumptions and then they were sued. Not saying that you would do that but I can't control who is reading this nor do I have control of the work. A frame that fails and folds up could result in injury or death under the right circumstances. I could not live with that and I don't want the grieving family members looking for the guy that told him how to do the faulty repair. That makes things complicated. Good luck with your repairs.

[DonAndersen]

I have some sympathy for the pontoon boat manufacturers. The buying public wants equipment that weighs less and less. Doing so diminishes material thickness thereby reducing longevity.

Like Premier Prentice says "look in a mirror - it's all your fault".

Frankly, I would wish for higher quality product even if it weighed & cost more.

 

Don

[Taco]

If the $ aren't a big consideration, a good metal shop should be able to replicate and strengthen the original design. You may end with a $600 frame though.

[DonAndersen]

Taco,

The repair of the Outcast 9IR frame was a whole $90.00. Maybe added 6 ozs. To the system.

 

Mind you, when people get all excited over a 1/10 oz. on a reel being too heavy, perhaps 6 ozs. will cause heart palpitations, gout or premature ejaculation.

 

Don