DonAndersen Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Folks, For near 60 years I've been FFing, I believed that fly weight determined the line weight required to cast the fly. Note, I said cast not lobbed. Time after time I read of people on here thinking about buying a 2>4 weight rod to cast things like streamers and nymphs which I would have thought would be better "cast" using lines heavier than 5. I always found it strange that anglers chose their fly delivery equipment w/o considering the weight of the fly. If hunters did this, some poor pilgrim would be chasing tigers with .22's. Catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhunt Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think one side of the coin is the modern (last 25 years, or so) tendency towards fast action rods. I have one that I assembled on a blank that I partially share a name with, it's a 5wt but I use it as my streamer rod with a 200 gr sink-tip because I can actually feel the SOB cast. Concurrently, I think there has been an improvement in materials and/or tapers that makes current graphite rods much more versatile in terms of the range of lines and flies they can cast. For example, I have an old 9.5' 6wt IMX that I still love to fish, but if I try and cast a heavy nymph rig with it I can feel the rod start to "colapse" in the butt section, and performance suffers. In contrast, I have an Amundson Midge (moderate action 8' 4wt) that can honestly cast a size 6 3xl cone head streamer as long as I open my loop a bit and pay attention to the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 But Dan, a 200 grain line is an 8 weight. Perhaps you have a 8 weight Rod rather than the 5 weight. Not the first time that happened. Your 5 weight fast actioned rod is really an 8 weight.. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgetwaiter Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I can't hep but wonder I'd the question I posted last night is part of this. My goal is to carry one rod, if I'm gonna do that I need to be able to handle the wind. I'm liking the feel of those light fiberglass rods but I don't know if they can do what I need them to. I'm making an assumption that the fast tippy action that can lob some more weight is also going to make it easy to maintain a compact loop that cuts the wind better. True or false? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Seems to me the explosion of tapers and how fly lines are weighted has thrown most of the old formulas by way of the dodo. Not to mention, when I first got into flyfishing in the 80's as a teen, graphite fly rods were much heavier then (reels too). That's a separate comment from even how fast the action is on many rods. So lighter rods in general + faster rods in general + a bazillion choices in how the tapers are distributed means easily you could have a +/- 2-3 fly line discrepancy, when you try to match it to the stencil weight on the rod blank. Fly lines are generally measured in grain weight at 30 feet, right? Couple of articles here: http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/choose-line-home.html http://www.flyfisherman.com/blogs/fly-line-wt-grain-chart/ Remember, if there's only a 20 to 40 grain difference before stepping up into the weight class, then recall that 20 grains = 0.04 ounces or 1.3 grams. Double that for a 40 grain difference, and you can see there's not a whole lot of difference. I think taper is your biggest variable nowadays. Anyways, I tend to overline my rods. I digress, as I have side tracked the conversation. Back on topic... As far as the weight of fly, yeah, I wouldn't particularly enjoy (so I don't) casting Charlie Brooks lead bomb stonefly patterns on my Winston 3 weight, but on the Helios 4 weight 10 foot tip flex is actually not that bad. Short line nymphing anyways, so... Just my 1.5 cents. Smitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Interesting. I respect the fly to rod relationship, but I guess I focus on the fish I expect to catch when I select rod weight. My 6 gets me all over the Bow and I would like to use my 3 for dries but I hesitate considering what I might hook. I still take the 3 out and use it sometimes but most times I'll just work harder on the presentation with the 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayhad Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 People use what they use to fish and target the fish that give them enjoyment. I have specific Sages that I only use for streamer fishing although they are only 3 or 4 wts, a small piece of t-12 (like 12") and you have a very effective sink tip, or just fish a longer leader. You will have to use some common sense as a 3wt isn't throwing a 10" double bunny for bulls, but a size 2 muddler or bugger... no problem. The only limit is your own perceived limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somereddeerguy Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 People use what they use to fish and target the fish that give them enjoyment. I have specific Sages that I only use for streamer fishing although they are only 3 or 4 wts, a small piece of t-12 (like 12") and you have a very effective sink tip, or just fish a longer leader. You will have to use some common sense as a 3wt isn't throwing a 10" double bunny for bulls, but a size 2 muddler or bugger... no problem. The only limit is your own perceived limitations. Well said! If someone wants to go "lob" streamers let em. Personally i could care less what gear a guy is using as long as its not killing fish, or interrupting my fishing experience. Too many internet warriors / purists put effort into criticizing others because they do things different. If throwing some streamers on a lighter rod gets the job done for someone and they enjoy their experience fishing all the power to them. While i choose to to focus on fly size in relation to my rod for that day, i have zero f***s to give if someone wants to do otherwise. If your that upset about it maybe you'd be better off focusing on why your not having a great enough time fishing to care what other guys are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Jayhad: I'll add my own "well said." BrownDrake; if the comment about being upset was aimed at Don, I'll just say in a little bit of defense that I don't think he was upset, he's just doing a little mid to late winter pot stir and see if anything hatches. I think it's good topic to bat around; of course, we could always revert back to the ever-popular topic of "What is the definition of Fly-fishing". Smitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrinhurst Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Jayhad: I'll add my own "well said." BrownDrake; if the comment about being upset was aimed at Don, I'll just say in a little bit of defense that I don't think he was upset, he's just doing a little mid to late winter pot stir and see if anything hatches. I think it's good topic to bat around; of course, we could always revert back to the ever-popular topic of "What is the definition of Fly-fishing". Smitty Because you asked...... fly fish·ing noun the sport of fishing using a rod and an artificial fly as bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhunt Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 But Dan, a 200 grain line is an 8 weight. Perhaps you have a 8 weight Rod rather than the 5 weight. Not the first time that happened. Your 5 weight fast actioned rod is really an 8 weight.. Don You make an interesting point - I don't think the blank was mis-labled in the factory, but for shnitz and giggles I looked up the CCS ERN and it works out to 7.90. Makes me wonder if the line ratings aren't "deflated" some to market them as having that uber-fast action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I own a 3 wt RPL+ that I've been known to fish with a WF5F on occasion. Does this make me a pervert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I own a 3 wt RPL+ that I've been known to fish with a WF5F on occasion. Does this make me a pervert? I think it depends on what you do when you have it in your hands . the sport of fishing using a rod and an artificial fly as bait. Wait a minute.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I think it depends on what you do when you have it in your hands . Jerkin' the face off fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Then obviously, not a pervert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The flycasting/line science between line size and fly size is: "The mass of the fly should not exceed the mass of the line preceeding the fly." So use the right line as there are many specailized lines available today to cast just about any fly on a 4 wt. Increase the rod weight and you can cast farther and create higher line speeds, especailly important when the wind comes up Yes, you can chuck an oversized fly/nymph rig on a light rod with a general taper line and "get it out there", but you don't really need a fly rod to do that, as you could just use a stick and some twine. In fact, from what I see out on the water, most anglers would be better casters if they did. Although, it's kinda fun to watch the infamous "Bow river chuck and duckers".(unless I'm on the oars, that *hit I take seriously) It's no wonder they go home complaining of sore elbows, shoulders and backs... Rod/Line/Fly imbalance + Poor Casting Technique = Bow River Chuck & Duck technique. All kidding aside, Don points out the obvious, Nothing beats having your favorite, appropriate weight rod, dialed in with the right line for the task. So effortless and efficeint and essential when the wind starts to howl.... And now I return to my winter state of "torpor", until river snouts re-appear for further examination... Fin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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