Is It Time For A Serious Discussion About This Forum And Fishing Reports

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

For me, it comes down to overall ethics and philosopy. If you want to be percieved as elitist, go ahead and keep your secrets. Not too many of us have the freedom and spare cash to go exploring enough to have any degree of success discovering our own repetiore of decent fishing spots. I know, because before I had marriage/mortage/children constraints I did find my share of dead ends, marginal fisheries, and wild goose chases.

 

I don't know about someone being labeled an 'Elitist' if they don't divulge their fishing spots online.

 

No offence Junior, but you chose to get married, have kids, and get a mortgage. By your logic, if I understand your post correctly, someone who makes these life changing decisions has earned the right to someone else’s knowledge? And if they don't share their spots they're an elitist?

 

C'mon man.

 

[Smitty]

I don't know about someone being labeled an 'Elitist' if they don't divulge their fishing spots online.

 

No offence Junior, but you chose to get married, have kids, and get a mortgage. By your logic, if I understand your post correctly, someone who makes these life changing decisions has earned the right to someone else’s knowledge? And if they don't share their spots they're an elitist?

 

C'mon man.

 

Excellent reply. Bang on.

 

And Junior, I'm happy to take kids from school fishing; and I also don't mind divulging spots as I mentor them either. Mentorship has nothing to do with the points I made. You might be right about this forum not contributing to poaching. But I'd rather not take that chance, again, given what I know what's happened (ok, I am not scientifically certain, but the cause and effect seems obvious to me) to perch spots due to internet postings here in northern AB.

 

Smitty

 

 

 

 

 

[Current]

I did find my share of dead ends, marginal fisheries, and wild goose chases.

 

 

Some of my most memorable days were full of these , too. But if you find enough of these you might find your own secrets...

 

It's part of the mystique of the sport. It's a feeling you have inside. That feeling isn't there if you get your spots off the internet or park next to the three trucks already at the bridge.

 

I got the feeling bad these days. Spring fever! Can't wait to get out and explore...

 

Cheers,

 

 

Current

 

 

 

[trailhead]

My observation on this whole thing and this is an observation and not an indictment of anyone. When someone posts postive results of an outing on a river, any river. It brings out more anglers. Just something I've noticed. Someone says the Bow is hot for hoppers, you get a whack to guys out on the Bow fishing hoppers. I'm as guilty as anyone, the internet is a giant sharing place. If you don't want to post don't, if you feel otherwise go ahead and post, if you think it will help or harm in any way shape or form, make a decision. One other observation, if someone posts that the Highwood is fishing great, I won't go to there. It's probably a better idea to hit the Crow.

[robert]

Interesting comments in this thread, keep them coming. I've often wondered what people did before google maps, and some won't use that.

 

 

I've given up spots in the past, and lost them to crowds, won't be doing that again. But i will share holes with friends and i've had them do it for me.

[SanJuanWorm]

I'll share a spot. The douglasdale bridge. But stay out, it's my spot.

[kentan]

My observation on this whole thing and this is an observation and not an indictment of anyone. When someone posts postive results of an outing on a river, any river. It brings out more anglers. Just something I've noticed. Someone says the Bow is hot for hoppers, you get a whack to guys out on the Bow fishing hoppers. I'm as guilty as anyone, the internet is a giant sharing place. If you don't want to post don't, if you feel otherwise go ahead and post, if you think it will help or harm in any way shape or form, make a decision. One other observation, if someone posts that the Highwood is fishing great, I won't go to there. It's probably a better idea to hit the Crow.

 

the problem is thats its to late now. doesnt matter who posts pics of what its been posted 1000X already. There was about a two year perioid in which this website just exploded, in that time everyone was trying to out pic out fish or just simply out do the other guy! It snowballed and is now out of control, there is know stopping it. I bet that the people, you know who you are wish you wouldve done things differantly a couple years back. I know I do, I feel partially responsible and some guilt for being a part of it back then. I was caught up as well. Now it doesnt matter. This topic is dead and buried, cant do anything about. Its funny that we're actually talking about it now! you want secrets and solitude youre sleeping with the bears in a tent somewhere. Which isnt an option for some of us that have three kids playing hockey and lacrosse. The Bow used to be a nice option, close to home and know traffic...ever, up until about 2/3 years ago!

[bigbowtrout]

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

 

[DaveJensen]

My guess is PGK, judging by your comments you're a part of that crew, the old Bow guides; self-professed experts whose entire existence and vanity comes from the good old days and their 'skills' guiding a river full of effluent. It really is funny. I’d also venture a guess that you can't get any work guiding anymore because of your attitude, bad temper, and the fact that the new guys (and some of us old guys) are better than you

 

Nope, he's a 26 or so year old that got out of school a couple years ago, that needs to learn the eternal value of communication via non-posturing methods, approached with humble manners, that respects others may have vast experience and knowledge apart from what his limited experience and ability has led him to believe to be black & white 100% accurate. He's actually a great person that, with tact and developing his weak areas of communication, could be an amazing asset to everyone. His communication unfortunately does not come through in the way he hopes, which is clear to most everyone, but he'll have to take ownwership and explore that area in life to fully develop into his potential. But, and I can tell you out of similar experience to him, it's up to us to learn our own life lessons, often in a much harder manner than needed.

[PGK]

.

[bigbowtrout]

Oh screw it.

 

 

 

 

[reevesr1]

I fished this morning south of town. Well known spot. Had it to myself. Caught fish. Just like most days.

 

[ironfly]

I don't know about someone being labeled an 'Elitist' if they don't divulge their fishing spots online.

 

No offence Junior, but you chose to get married, have kids, and get a mortgage. By your logic, if I understand your post correctly, someone who makes these life changing decisions has earned the right to someone else’s knowledge? And if they don't share their spots they're an elitist?

 

C'mon man.

I don't think of any aspect of fishing as a right, but rather a privilege. Personally, I see a sense of entitlement as a bit of a plague on our society.

 

Yeah, all that exploration was a lot of fun, and I found a few spots on my own that way, but what I was really talking about was recruitment. Let's say a 30-something Dad makes a decision that I assume we'd all support- to take his kids fishing. But he doesn't know anything, has no free time or money to explore, and without help he'll have a few failed trips, everyone will be dissappointed, and they'll most likely give up. I'd rather be helpful, and create more "friends of the river". If you've become cynical about that sort of thing, that's understandable, but unfortunate.

 

Let's not oversell ourselves, though; it's pretty fashionable to claim that we pick up litter when we go fishing, but honestly, how many of you have seen that happening? I figure if every person on this board picks up trash, as they all seem to claim, then you must see three or four guys doing just that pretty much every time you go fishing, right? If that's true, fabulous, but I've never seen it a single time. My point is that it's pretty tough to say who will be a steward, and who's going out pillaging. I have freely given away spots of my own, and returned to find them occupied. Sure, there's a twinge of dissappointment, but that is outweighed by the knowledge that a few others have found the way, the truth and the light.

 

It sounds like some posters to this thread would actually prefer that there were no more, or even less anglers, because they don't want to share. To me, that seems elitist. And if you're willing to share info to certain people, under certain circumstances, but won't share that info freely...well, by definition that is elitist.

[Din]

In my opinion, there's a large difference between sharing spots on larger rivers or rivers where there is lots of fish (bow, oldman, crow, etc) to sharing spots on intimate waters where there may not be as many fish, and those fish will be put down for the rest of the day if someone has fished over them.

 

You can come back and fish a cutty spot later in the day and catch the same fish, but it's often not the case for some other streams...Stauffer is no secret, but have you ever fished it one day and not seen a fish to only find out that someone was only a few bends up?

[Smitty]

I don't think of any aspect of fishing as a right, but rather a privilege. Personally, I see a sense of entitlement as a bit of a plague on our society.

 

Yeah, all that exploration was a lot of fun, and I found a few spots on my own that way, but what I was really talking about was recruitment. Let's say a 30-something Dad makes a decision that I assume we'd all support- to take his kids fishing. But he doesn't know anything, has no free time or money to explore, and without help he'll have a few failed trips, everyone will be dissappointed, and they'll most likely give up. I'd rather be helpful, and create more "friends of the river". If you've become cynical about that sort of thing, that's understandable, but unfortunate.

 

Let's not oversell ourselves, though; it's pretty fashionable to claim that we pick up litter when we go fishing, but honestly, how many of you have seen that happening? I figure if every person on this board picks up trash, as they all seem to claim, then you must see three or four guys doing just that pretty much every time you go fishing, right? If that's true, fabulous, but I've never seen it a single time. My point is that it's pretty tough to say who will be a steward, and who's going out pillaging. I have freely given away spots of my own, and returned to find them occupied. Sure, there's a twinge of dissappointment, but that is outweighed by the knowledge that a few others have found the way, the truth and the light.

 

It sounds like some posters to this thread would actually prefer that there were no more, or even less anglers, because they don't want to share. To me, that seems elitist. And if you're willing to share info to certain people, under certain circumstances, but won't share that info freely...well, by definition that is elitist.

 

 

Well, I know I've come full circle and so I apologize for my repititiveness and/or circular argument. But,...

 

I honestly don't know where you are coming from Junior. I guess if the price I pay to keep certain, fragile spots a secret, is to become an elitist, then, so be it.

 

But your stance is almost gun-to-the-head like. Perhaps an exaggeration, but where is the mandate to "must" share information? Is that a condition of becoming an FFC member? Obviously no is the answer.

 

Again, everything you've said is irrelevant to the original point of why I started this thread. Many members - besides myself, in fact more often than me, because the community is based in Calgary - many members take other people out fishing. Many members have mentored other people, in terms of hand-on, direct instructional help. That dad with kids could find plenty of help - PLENTY, I tell ya! lol of people willing to point a family in the right direction. Plus the local fly-shops, plus the AB Fishing Guide, plus numerous books (I count 4 that specifically cover Alberta), dvd's, and video's. Where's the lack of help here? Where's the lack of info? The truth is, with a little bit of effort, isn't there really a glut of information overload?

 

And what's all that got to do with any member of the FFC not mentioning a 3rd stage, delicate tributary that can't handle either the crowds and/or people of ill-intent? Even if the premise is wrong, isn't it better to err on the side of caution and hold back some spots, just in case?

 

Look, I acknowledge I have a selfish motive; like many here, small stream fishing in solitude or with close buddy family member is a real treat. But I don't think its elitist just because you are willing to share when you fished, how you caught fish, what the conditions are like, but you hold back on a favorite spot. Or, that you don't mention to an internet audience of 4000+ every single spot you fished. Let me tell ya, that's way more sharing than it used to be when I was growing up, pre-internet.

 

Anyhoo, your entitled to see things the way you see them, but I'm pretty ok with what I share and what I don't. I guess I find your definition of elitism...weird.

 

Smitty

 

[Current]

Let's say a 30-something Dad makes a decision that I assume we'd all support- to take his kids fishing. But he doesn't know anything, has no free time or money to explore, and without help he'll have a few failed trips, everyone will be dissappointed, and they'll most likely give up.

 

 

It seems like most of our fathers did fine before the advent of the internet. If you're looking on a computer for a place to go fishing...you're doing it wrong!...imho

[SanJuanWorm]

It seems like most of our fathers did fine before the advent of the internet. If you're looking on a computer for a place to go fishing...you're doing it wrong!...imho

 

 

Love it.

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

It seems like most of our fathers did fine before the advent of the internet. If you're looking on a computer for a place to go fishing...you're doing it wrong!...imho

 

Indeed.

 

 

[Ricinus]

It seems like most of our fathers did fine before the advent of the internet. If you're looking on a computer for a place to go fishing...you're doing it wrong!...imho

 

 

 

Sweet

 

 

 

Mike

[reevesr1]

Depends on what you call using the internet. If you mean using it to tell you where to fish, ok. That is possibly doing it wrong. But I use the internet as an aid to scouting new areas. I think I'd be crazy not to. Google Earth/maps in coordination with my garmin is a pretty powerful combination. I've used it to find productive looking water in areas I've never been (and in some cases I'd never even heard of) and as a way to find possible access points.

 

And while we are on fathers, they certainly did not have the internet, but word got around pretty quick in those days as well. People used to literally follow my father and his friend Ken around. They called them "Richard's Army". This is back in the day that the top speed of an outboard might be 15-20 MPH. He said he would go to a flat everyone knew about and anchor. The boats following would anchor up then the people quickly get in the water and start wading. Dad would act like he was getting his stuff together and then when people had waded sufficiently past him, start the engine and get away as quick as he could. He would also have outdoor writers from the Houston papers call him for fishing reports. While he would not give specific location info other than bay system, he never had any problems giving tactics. He used to say "it doesn't @$@#ing matter, 90% of 'em don't have the slightest idea what they are doing anyway." And I have no idea how many people he taught to fish in his lifetime, or if not taught them, significantly shortened their learning curve (mine included). I have pictures of a father and son (the kid was like 8) that he took out after he met them at the dock with no fish. Took them right back out to nearby reef, showed them a few spots, and caught a few fish. The smile on the kids face showing his trout is priceless.

 

So today, we complain that the internet is ruining fishing. 10 years ago it was TV, before that it was magazines. Before that is was outdoor sections of newspapers. Before that it was mouthy guys like my dad who were not afraid to share their knowledge with pretty much anyone. Listen to the folks in the fishing shop and every one of those methods of communication were going to kill fishing. Still seems to be a lot of fish around (and where I'm from there are more now than there were 20 yrs ago), and to repeat myself for the 1000th time, sure doesn't seem to me to be too hard to find solitude if you want it.

 

So I guess I am curious as to what we are talking about here? I am obviously a huge proponent of sharing knowledge. Most everything I've learned in fishing was built upon something or someplace someone showed me, including the ability to scout new places or try new tactics. I would feel like an utter hypocrite if I then hoarded my knowledge. That in no way means that I am going to give out specific locations. And I don't think hardly anyone does. But take away the ability to share knowledge, tactics, and flies that may be working (as some on this thread has suggested) is wrong, IMHO.

 

There is also this undercurrent of "if you don't find it and figure it out yourself you are doing it wrong." Really? How many of you really, truly figured it out yourself? No dad, no books, no magazines, no maps, no instructions, just picked up your fly rod and went out and figured it all out. I'm pretty safe in saying that number is zero. So what is the acceptable amount of knowledge sharing? Only stuff you learned from your dad counts? Roderick Brown Haig? Barry Mitchell? Your buddy at the fly shop? SFOTF? We all have our methods of gathering intel. Every previous generation thinks the current generation is getting their information too easily. I bet some medieval fisherman bitched when books were invented and those damn kids could learn just by reading. Cheating bastards. Pretty amazing that through all the changes in technology and in communication, the fishing, at least to me, still seems pretty damn good around here.

[Taco]

Jesus you're a talkative bugger Tex but you and I are pretty much thinkin' the same. Someone showed me how and where and by christ it's gonna get passed along.

[Smitty]

Because this debate has truly split into 2 separate tracks, I'll say, I completely agree with Rickr. And I don't think that contradicts any of the points that I made earlier.

 

 

Smitty

[reevesr1]

Jesus you're a talkative bugger Tex but you and I are pretty much thinkin' the same. Someone showed me how and where and by christ it's gonna get passed along.

Oh that I could be as succinct as you Taco.

 

And Smitty, I'm very well aware it took two tracks. It was the other track I have a different viewpoint on.

[ironfly]

Because this debate has truly split into 2 separate tracks, I'll say, I completely agree with Rickr. And I don't think that contradicts any of the points that I made earlier.

 

 

Smitty

Love it! I also agree with everything he said, and I also do not think that I'm contradicting myself. Tex, you should go into politics.