Who Is So God Damn Insecure And Weak ?

[flyfishfairwx]

Someone was reading about what a great hike it was then saw the small print at the bottom saying it had trout and thought what the **** I have an old rod my grandpappy gave me and some lures so I'll take those and give it a go. After 10min of fishing with the wrong gear and losing it all on the bottom the uneducated dickhead packed up and went home.

 

 

I can only hope so!!!

[theiceman2]

Back east they have fly fishing olny rules n place, maybe it is because they are salmon rivers, maybe the east cost realize fly fishermen are mostly catch and ralease and it takes all of the guessing work out of it. I think the bull trout spawning grounds should be no fishing or fly fish only.

 

Everything asde alot of spinning gear guys I have fishid next to on the bow and western streams eventually show me their rig and its illegal. From barbed hooks to bait....

[cuttbow]

Lets move to the random camping issue. Lands act says 14 days stay. Permanent outhouses 300 ft from water ways. No fences and yet we see rigs there all summer outhouses on the streams and 4 forestry trucks in the parking lot.So my taxes are going where?

 

Fishing regs,m Follow BC and have some balls and enforce them. Im sure 10 years from now well still be giving warnings. Go into a shop in BC and all the spinners are single and barbless.

 

My 2 cents

[cuttbow]

Go for it dude my post just got whipped out for some strange reason.

[cuttbow]

Hi jack, howzit goin'?

 

 

 

PPfffft, try a 50-90 Sharps

nope still like the 300 win mag barbless of course

[reevesr1]

Back east they have fly fishing olny rules n place, maybe it is because they are salmon rivers, maybe the east cost realize fly fishermen are mostly catch and ralease and it takes all of the guessing work out of it. I think the bull trout spawning grounds should be no fishing or fly fish only.

 

Everything asde alot of spinning gear guys I have fishid next to on the bow and western streams eventually show me their rig and its illegal. From barbed hooks to bait....

 

Let's not kid ourselves. Fly fishing only rules are often put in place to be restrictive for other types of fishing, not always for the fish. Fly fishermen are quite often the elite class. Not much of a surprise that in the end, in many cases, they get the rules changed to suit them.

 

 

[northfork]

This is my least favorite subject. I personally reject the thought that someone is somehow less than moral because they use spin gear (discounting the barbs, but you seem to be just as mad at the fact that they used a spinner at all). I have taught my sons to fish with flies, streamers, spoons, spinners, plugs, as well as live bait, while in most cases practicing catch and release. I'm proud of that. Fishing is fun in all it's forms. The fact that most of my fishing, and all my river fishing, is done with a fly rod does not make me a more ethical being. Anyone who thinks it does is deluding themselves, IMHO. In the end, we are all just jamming sharp pointy objects in fish. For our fun. How hypocritical is it of us to decide a single #2, or #12, or #20 is somehow morally superior to a #4 treble?

 

And I also find it quite humorous, and often sad, that we want to classify more water as fly fishing only. While many of us kid ourselves that we do this for the betterment of the fish (and I will admit that for some this is true-they are doing it for the fish), isn't it strange that while protecting the fish, we don't change the way we fish, since we are, you know, fly fishermen? What bullshit.

 

And quite frankly, I'll fish any damn place I want.

 

Very well said Rick. 100% with you there.

 

Flyfishfairwx, you need to cool down man. *hit/poaching/illegal stuff always has and always will happen. You are acting as if this is the only incident in Alberta. Read what other guys are saying... I dig where your comin' from here but chill the fugg out man.

[flyfishfairwx]

Let's not kid ourselves. Fly fishing only rules are often put in place to be restrictive for other types of fishing, not always for the fish. Fly fishermen are quite often the elite class. Not much of a surprise that in the end, in many cases, they get the rules changed to suit them.

 

 

I sometimes wonder were that line of thinking comes from.. what happened to make you think that..

 

You fly fish, I fly fish, and everyone on this BB does.. we are not an elitist group..that is an old idea..

 

I used to spin fish , you still do , and for Avalanche - my sons still do.. but for their own reasons..does this make us elitist spin fishers ?

 

I have never had a fly fisherman or woman look down their nose at me, but have had several spin fisherman turn their backs on me.. when I show up with my fly rod.. so who is being elitist ?

 

 

The rules are changed because there is a reason to change them.. not on the whim of an elitist group.. of any type.. the fish and persevering the resource to be used not used up..is the msg of that quote, if you get hung up on the word "fly" because of some slight or prejudice from the past then you are missing the point in the msg..

 

If that means making a fly fishing only fishery then so be it.. if it was made a fish only on Odd # days then so be it.. what ever it takes to persevere the resource.

 

I wonder whom is kidding whom?

 

 

 

[reevesr1]

So a spin fisherman turns his back on a fly fisherman? Gee, wonder why. Not like we ever look down on them or anything.

 

So please tell me why any body of water should be fly fishing only? Because it has the lowest mortality rate? Then what is the acceptable mortality rate? What determines it? Is it science, or is it since ff tends to have the lowest rate it must be ok? I guess the reason ff has less is small, single hook.

 

I have no issue with changing to single, unbarbed hooks only on any lure or fly-and sold that way. Fantastic idea. Don't change the overall methodology, change the "bait." But fly fishing only? Copout.

 

Funny that in every other case on this board, the prevailing opinion seems to be whenever some group has the most money, they get an inordinate say in the making of the rules. I would submit that if that is true, then it's true in fishing as well.

 

In the west, I find we tend to revolt against anything that panders to the most sensitive. In fishing, we are the most sensitive, but I guess it's ok to pander to us. And don't say "its for the fish" to me. If we were truly for the fish, we'd all stop. We want it to be good for the fish just as long as it is good for us too. (I'm exaggerating a bit here. But just a bit.)

 

A bit off topic, but:

Lets say fly fishing mortality is 1% (making that number up)

Spinner mortality is 2% (making that up too)

Bait fishing mortality 4% (same non-source of info)

The fly fisherman would say "fly fishing only!"

The Spinner guy says "no bait fisherman!"

The bait fishermen says "those numbers are bullshit"

 

The extreme environmentalist says "When fishing with legal means, fishing mortality is between 1 and 4%. Those numbers are unacceptable and all fishing needs to be banned!"

[flyfishfairwx]

So a spin fisherman turns his back on a fly fisherman? Gee, wonder why. Not like we ever look down on them or anything.

 

 

So who looked down their nose at you when you were spin fishing,or fly fishing or told you to do that plse tell me the back story of this elitist thing you have..

 

So please tell me why any body of water should be fly fishing only? Because it has the lowest mortality rate? Then what is the acceptable mortality rate? What determines it? Is it science, or is it since ff tends to have the lowest rate it must be ok? I guess the reason ff has less is small, single hook.

 

I have no issue with changing to single, unbarbed hooks only on any lure or fly-and sold that way. Fantastic idea. Don't change the overall methodology, change the "bait." But fly fishing only? Copout.

 

Funny that in every other case on this board, the prevailing opinion seems to be whenever some group has the most money, they get an inordinate say in the making of the rules. I would submit that if that is true, then it's true in fishing as well.

 

In the west, I find we tend to revolt against anything that panders to the most sensitive. In fishing, we are the most sensitive, but I guess it's ok to pander to us. And don't say "its for the fish" to me. If we were truly for the fish, we'd all stop. We want it to be good for the fish just as long as it is good for us too. (I'm exaggerating a bit here. But just a bit.)

 

A bit off topic, but:

Lets say fly fishing mortality is 1% (making that number up)

Spinner mortality is 2% (making that up too)

Bait fishing mortality 4% (same non-source of info)

The fly fisherman would say "fly fishing only!"

The Spinner guy says "no bait fisherman!"

The bait fishermen says "those numbers are bullshit"

 

The extreme environmentalist says "When fishing with legal means, fishing mortality is between 1 and 4%. Those numbers are unacceptable and all fishing needs to be banned!"

 

 

I will quiz 'harps' for the true info on this..

[Pythagoras]

Nice! I was wondering where I left that lure! Send me a PM where I can pick it up.

 

It just SLAYS those Golden Trout...them ain't as good eatin as the Bulls though...less meat on em.

 

 

[flyfishfairwx]

Nice! I was wondering where I left that lure! Send me a PM where I can pick it up.

 

It just SLAYS those Golden Trout...them ain't as good eatin as the Bulls though...less meat on em.

 

Turd..

 

Mom he is making fun of me....send him to his room......

 

[bigbowtrout]

I like cake

[duanec]

I like cake

[zed]

I like cake

 

 

i hate cake! cake sucks! especially angel food cake. my mom made me an angel food cake every freakin year for my birthday! that $hit's garbage! all you guy's ever talk about is cake! how about brownies? cake is for bums.

 

thanks mom.

[bigbowtrout]

Your Mom let me lick the spoon

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

Lets try this for size. I belong to several fishing groups. Not a worm dunker in any of them. Never met a worm dunker who was interested in the public fishing resource. Never met a worm dunker who ever spent any time working to improve the public fishery.

SRD enforcement target worm dunkers - why - 'cause they know that most infractions are done by them.

But times are changing. As more worm dunkers learn to FF, the ethics of FF are getting diluted.

Is FF only the answer - No. Just makes things worse. Brands FF types as elist. Not a good thing.

I'd really like to see worm dunkers working to improve our fisheries but I'm not holding my breath waiting.

 

Don

[Avalanche]

There is a big difference between a "worm dunker" and some guy tossing a Panther Martin, Mepps or a Len Thompson 5 of Diamonds with a single barbless hook...

 

You can't paint all fishermen with a single brush. There are many spinner fishermen that are law-abiding citizens and have a concern for the environment, the ecology and the health of the fish. A fellow "worm dunker" and I spent many hours on Quirk Creek a few years back participating in that project. We weren't the only spinner fishermen to participate either.

 

As more worm dunkers learn to FF, the ethics of FF are getting diluted.

 

Sounds like you are saying once a loser, always a loser.

 

Sorry...it's statements like this that give fly fishermen the elitist stereotype some of us are trying to dispel. Apparently some are happy to add credence to that stereotype. This is unfortunate.

 

Does the fact that I have spinning equipment and use it once in a while make me a lesser being than you? Well...I also have a split-cane fly rod. Guess were even then huh?

[nebc]

Did anyone report this to the Conservation Officers right away or not?

[reevesr1]

Folks,

 

Lets try this for size. I belong to several fishing groups. Not a worm dunker in any of them. Never met a worm dunker who was interested in the public fishing resource. Never met a worm dunker who ever spent any time working to improve the public fishery.

SRD enforcement target worm dunkers - why - 'cause they know that most infractions are done by them.

But times are changing. As more worm dunkers learn to FF, the ethics of FF are getting diluted.

Is FF only the answer - No. Just makes things worse. Brands FF types as elist. Not a good thing.

I'd really like to see worm dunkers working to improve our fisheries but I'm not holding my breath waiting.

 

Don

 

As fishermen evolve, many of them move on to more advanced techniques. The only exception to this, I would think, are people fishing for food.(not judging, just stating!). I would think that even some of them begin to learn that fishing is just fun and look for other ways to to it and places to go. Bait restrictions on most of the fun flowing water and more, but admittedly not enough, of stillwater aid in this transition. And that is good. So the first transition is from bait to spin. Doesn't cost much to do this, and opens up many, many fishing opportunities. As he fishes more he will begin to consider fly fishing. But the transition to fly fishing is much more difficult. First off, it certainly costs significant bucks to enter. And it is endlessly complicated. And is very, very intimidating. And many fly fishermen seem like asses. I did not want to do it at first because of the above reasons and the fact that I just didn't want to be "new" at something I had done my whole life. And partly because I thought "screw those guys." In the end, I am very glad I did it. But had I not I wouldn't care any more about the fishery than I already do.

 

It could be argued that the fact we care this much about the fishery and fishing is what drives us try to find the best way to experience it. I just think we need to be very, very careful about criticizing "less advanced" methods. If fly fishing truly is the pinnacle, then as participants it is our responsibility to educate others, not castigate them. This year I've converted 3 spin fishermen to fly fishermen (maybe it's 4). Not because I wanted to make them more responsible and ethical fishermen (they already were) but because I wanted them to get as much enjoyment out of this that I do. And this passion is what will drive people to get involved in fishery issues.

 

What I think I'm trying to say in the above poorly constructed paragraphs is fishing is an evolution. The spin fisherman is really just me, but a few years ago. To be disgustingly inclusive-he is my brother.

 

Remember that evolution is a continuing thing. The next evolution of the fly fisherman seems to be from nymphs to dry. Some even evolve to no hooks. What if they get to set the rules? There is always someone more evolved than we are.

 

And FFF, while I would be interested in the mortality stats, that wasn't my point. However little or high the mortality is from any method, the biggest jump is the infinite jump from 0 mortality (not fishing at all) to whatever the fly fishing mortality is.

[Simpson]

Can't say I am a fan of those trebles, but am I really much better running three flies.

 

I have a good buddy who I have been fishing with for years. We both started chucking gear and I moved to the fly about 6 yrs ago and have never looked back. I use the fly rod for any and all types of fishing..I would rather not catch fish then do it on a spin setup, but that is just my personal choice and I don't look down on spin guys as long as the regs are followed. I personally get more satisfaction from using a fly as not all but sometimes is more of a challenge, and at the end of the day it is about satisfaction of the accomplishment. Using a fly that I have made and created only intensifies the satisfaction X10. I often give this same friend I mentioned above pressure to try the fly rod but as Rick mentioned he is reluctant to try something new that we all know can be difficult and frustrating in my case for many years! I have however managed to get him using flies with his spin rod (nymph set up) which in his case has improved his success. (+now he buys flies off me )

 

I think it is evolution. I find it funny how anytime I am talking fishing with someone out of the fishing community they just expect I keep my fish and mean 9.9 times out of 10! I am quick to point out that if everyone did that there would be nothing left to catch. Of course there are exceptions and I am not harping on anyone keeping fish within regs, but this is just an old school mentality, people used to fish to put food on the table.

 

For me it come down to RESPECT for the rules and as long as they are followed I have no issues with either method. Unfortunately there will always be people in this world with no respect. However, all I can do as an individual is influence this by educating my children family and friends about the importance of respect and conservation for this amazing country of ours.

[flyfishfairwx]

Did anyone report this to the Conservation Officers right away or not?

 

Put it on the creel report with my info and have an extra report here to phone the guy... 2 1/2 hrs from anybody, and no cell reception...

 

Would love to know what those other creel reports say????

[SteveM]

Someone was reading about what a great hike it was then saw the small print at the bottom saying it had trout and thought what the **** I have an old rod my grandpappy gave me and some lures so I'll take those and give it a go. After 10min of fishing with the wrong gear and losing it all on the bottom the uneducated dickhead packed up and went home.

 

How dare you call me an "uneducated dickhead"?

 

BTW, what was your first clue that this fisherman was "uneducated"?

Was it the wire pike leader attached to the spinner?

 

[flyfishfairwx]

I may have over reacted to this whole thing, but and there is always a but....

 

I was truly looking forward to showing my son, the wonder and beauty of this location and to catch some of the rarest trout in AB..

 

Then to find that thing sitting on the ground while trying to get into waders, was too damn much, I saved all my venom and anger for you all and continued to have a great day with the boy.

 

 

I will not post the pics of his first G/trout any where as it may encourage fools who use this type of gear, BARB'D spinners to visit these places..

 

If it is legal then I am OK maybe not happy but OK with the use..

 

I do try to educate and convert as many souls to FF as possible, just because ....

 

Would I react to this type of thing the same way UBET!!!!!

 

If I settle the FUGG down .. then they have won.. and the wrong eyes will rule.. the eyes that think only of themselves and break the law and rules when it suites them, I will not cower away from them ever...

[Avalanche]

I don't think anyone is asking anyone to turn a blind eye and act like this stuff never happens. It likely happens more often than any of us cares to believe. Did you read my post in "fishing finds" about the Ford Fender setup and chain stringer on the Livingstone? You think I was happy to see that? Absolutely not. Would I have done something had I caught the perpetrators red-handed? You bet. Was there anything I could do at that point? Nope. Shake my head and carry on with the hope that the jack-asses that thought that was cool would eventually be stupid enough to get caught. Unfortunately there are far too many miles of rivers and far too few conservation officers to keep it under control. I might add if there suddenly were enough conservation officers to patrol these rivers we'd all be bitching about having to pull our waders off to get our wallets out to show our fishing licenses...