misterbig Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Looking for some help on the best knot to use to join fluorocarbon tippet to leader. I have been using blood knots but find when i hook into big fish i find the line breaks off right at the knot. I am left with just a mono curl where the knot was. I use around 5 twists per side and moisten before tightening. m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussC Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Looking for some help on the best knot to use to join fluorocarbon tippet to leader. I have been using blood knots but find when i hook into big fish i find the line breaks off right at the knot. I am left with just a mono curl where the knot was. I use around 5 twists per side and moisten before tightening. m Misterbig It was suggested to me by Brian Chan to use a Triple Surgeon's Knot to attach fluorocarbon to mono. A super strong knot for leader to leader connections. Instead of using the surgeons knot for making leader to leader connections, use a triple surgeons knot instead. To tie the knot: •place the long leader to your right and overlap the end some 3 inches along the leader to your left. •grasp the tag end and leader to your right and twist it into a loop in between your hands. •grasp the standing leader on your left and the loop in your left hand •using your fingers ,the end of your closed forceps or other tool, pull the tag end and free leader on your right through the loop three times •grasp the tag end and long piece of leader on your right in your right hand. Grasp the tag end and long leader on your left in your left hand •gently pull your hands in opposite directions to start seating the knot •wet the knot and tug in opposite directions to finish seating the knot. •trim loose tag ends close to the knot. (this small neat knot can be trimmed close without affecting the 100% break strength) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyfisher Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I use a double surgeon's knot (4 wraps or turns). Use good flourocarbon. Seaguar G Max is quality material, it has a soft outer coating so when combined and joined to a mono leader it will not cut through the softer material. Rio, SA, Climax all make good leaders and match up well with G Max. I seldom experience knot failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterbig Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 I will try the surgeon's knot. the leader is a RIO 9FT tapered leader 3X and the Fluorocarbon is also RIO which is 3X. I usually tie on tippet material to get extra life from my leader. I know for sure that the not failed because the leader is just an inch or so short of 9 ft. Flyfisher where do you buy Seaguar G max products. thanks for the info guys. m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I usually try to avoid a floro to mono connection. I try to go the swivel route when possible (nymphing, chironomiding etc). When I do, I have had luck with a 3-4 turn surgeons with A LOT of spit to lube the knot while tightening. Always lube your knots, but be especially careful with floro. I remember a similar post on this topic, and pretty well everyone recommended the surgeons. I have had good luck with Rio Floroflex and Frog Hair Floro. Frog hair is quite a bit more expensive, but much higher strength for diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyfisher Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I will try the surgeon's knot. the leader is a RIO 9FT tapered leader 3X and the Fluorocarbon is also RIO which is 3X. I usually tie on tippet material to get extra life from my leader. I know for sure that the not failed because the leader is just an inch or so short of 9 ft. Flyfisher where do you buy Seaguar G max products. thanks for the info guys. m I'm in BC. It is available in quite a few fly shops here, should be so in AB to. The best deal is to buy it from Cabela's (US), they sell G Max in 100 yd spools at reasonable cost, otherwise it's a bit pricey here as you can only get 25 yd spools. Note: I don't use spit to lubricate knots tied on fluorocarbon. Better to wet the knot with water; spit is too slick for fluorocarbon and can result in knots cinching down too tightly when tying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beedhead Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I like this site.... http://www.killroys.com/knots/knots.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I'm a double uni guy 4 turns each side,never had a problem.6 turn single on the fly for the loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterbig Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Can a leader go bad?(Expire). I am currently using a 3x leader (Rio) and then attached a 3x flourocarbon. I tried the triple surgeons knot. Fish hooked fight for 2 min and then snap. Look at the break and at the knot.I think it must be the flourocarbon. So I use a triple surgeon knot and tie on a piece of 3x climax(standard tippet material). Three casts later and then fish on. Fight for couple minutes and snap. Knot failure again. Is there a test that you can do to check if leaders are bad or knot test with out resulting in damage to the leader structure? So frustrated. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 The biggest problem with attaching fluoro to mono leaders is that the fluoro is harder than mono and will cut through it under strain. That's the reason Seaguar has gone away from standard fluoro line and tippet and is producing only double extruded material with a hard fluoro core and a softer(same consistency as mono) outer layer. Depending on what breaking strength I require, I use Grand Max for the lighter applications, but also use Seaguar InvisX fishing line(4-25 lb test) as tippet/leaders also. Comes in 200 yd spools, so in most cases one purchase gives you a lifetime supply. http://www.seaguar.com/Products_IX.html I am looking at "Carbon Pro" for 2lb test leaders, just haven't found a source, yet. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyfisher Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Mono does have a shelf life (not sure exactly how long as it depends on storage), in my experience the good brands are fine for a couple of seasons anyway if kept in a dark place and out of sunlight. Store in a cool place during the off season. Since you are having problems with mono to mono connections and just not with fluoro to mono here are a few thoughts and questions to consider. 3X is pretty strong and in my experience more than strong enough for most trout fishing. Are you fishing for trout? I seldom ever need anything over 4X. How tight are you cinching down your knots when tying them? You need only to snug the knot down with a steady gentle pull working it tight by pulling on standing and tag ends. Do not snap a knot tight as that will greatly weaken it! To see if you are snugging your knots down properly look at one after you have tied it by viewing it through a pair of binoculars looking through the the binos in reverse. Any knot you tie should look fairly even and all wraps snugged down. Compare how the knot looks to a good diagram. I prefer a double surgeon's knot, 4 passes through. Try 4 passes through instead of 3. Could you be setting the hook to hard when you get a take? I have a friend who over reacts when he gets a take and sets the hook violently when he strikes back. He often experiences breaks offs, but usually when he strikes back. It could however weaken a knot causing failure later in the fight. Hope you get it figured out. Confidence in ones knots is paramount to good success especially if you target and want to land big fish consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Am I the only one who uses the double surgeon's knot with 2 passes through? It very rarely lets me down and the Knot id a lot smaller and cleaner. I hope Clive reads this post as I think he had some issues with expired leader and tippet and he took the shop to task on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbransfield Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Tippet rings. http://shop.siman.cz/ under accessories. There the best, whether it be for attaching butt sections to a nymphing rig, or for knots on stillwaters for biggg trout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Din Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I only do it 2 times as well, never have had a problem with it failing... Am I the only one who uses the double surgeon's knot with 2 passes through? It very rarely lets me down and the Knot id a lot smaller and cleaner. I hope Clive reads this post as I think he had some issues with expired leader and tippet and he took the shop to task on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Ditto! I only do it 2 times as well, never have had a problem with it failing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I've had the two wrap surgeon's fail when going mono to fluoro both when hung up on bottom and on fish. I was told to use a four wrap surgeon's instead and found it too bulky as well. Now I'll just use mono to my first fly then fluoro from the first fly to the other two. Otherwise I stick with all mono or all fluoro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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