DonAndersen Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Today toured some of the Clearwater River. On the second spot, a beast was swimming upstream. Crawled up on a log - stretched out and fell asleep. Just another unlicensed angler with it's belly full of browns. Otters seem to be extending their range. They are a "furbearer" in N. Alberta and are quite common in Montana. I've seen them in Yellowstone Park and in N. Alberta but never in the Rocky area will last year. Friends have told me of seeing them on the S. Raven, Prairie Creek, Mitchell Lake & I've seen them on Ironside Pond all within the past short while. A trapper told me that they were all over the place & taking fish everywhere. I'd never seen one so pooh -poohed the idea. After the past 2 years, his comment seems right on. Can't imagine the wreckage several of them would have on the over-wintering pools on the N. Ram. Frankly, I was shocked at this animal's behaviour. To go asleep in the presence of humans is just not normal for any animal in the wild that I've ever seen. He/she was not afraid of either of us who watched from 1/2 way across the river leading me to suspect that it could be a "young of the year" who had been chased off by Mom so that she could look after another hatch or maybe otter's " I don't give a crap" attitude or more seriously, non-furious rabies which acts much the same. A fish rose within 10' of the otter while it was awake and other than turn it's head, there was no hustling for supper. With Trans Alta's abuse of the N. Sask. River with the resulting flood ice, I'd expect that the otter came down either the Clearwater or Prairie Creek. As some family groups of otters have been seen on Pr. Cr., my money is that was the source of this otter. I have seen more otters - three - between last year and this than I've seen in the past 50+ years of wandering in Alberta's foothills/mountains. Whether or not as fishermen we are now facing another impact on the numbers of trout in our streams in not clear - but as Otters are fish gobblers - I'd suspect that there are now fewer browns in the Clearwater. Maybe it's time SRD changed the Trapping regs to reflect the new Otter reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 "Just Another Unlicensed Angler" ... Geez Don, I thought you had turned 65 and did not need a license this year!! The otters will be (are) a big concern if there are no countervailing predators and they are left to populate at will. There are a lot of mink on the Crow and I've seen them with small trout, but I think mergansers eat way more fish on the Crow. It is all one happy balance I guess BUT add a new predator and they can have an impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tallieho Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 i bumped into 4 of those guys at ironside pond last season ,they swam in from the north,chased out the geese,blue heron .Rather non-chalantly swam around & caught 3 bow's & had lunch on the muskrat house.They left heading north,i bid them adu,Cow Lake is that way with a fantastic lunch menu of PERCH .Iam sure it won't take long for them to clean out i.s pond.... later great pic's all the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker1 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 "Just Another Unlicensed Angler" ... Geez Don, I thought you had turned 65 and did not need a license this year!! The otters will be (are) a big concern if there are no countervailing predators and they are left to populate at will. There are a lot of mink on the Crow and I've seen them with small trout, but I think mergansers eat way more fish on the Crow. It is all one happy balance I guess BUT add a new predator and they can have an impact. Clive I have been seeing a lot of mink on the crow the past 8 years I fished it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I saw a whole family living on the Crowsnest river below the falls a couple of years ago. I fished the same area last year and didn't seem them again, but I assume they're still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
126barnes Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Nothing puts the trout down like an otter or two. Be thankful you don't have seals working their way up the rivers.................they may go up but they don't come down............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harps Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Otters mink and mergansers will all eat more sucker and coarse fish than trout... plus survival of the fittest, they will eat the dumb slow weak fish, leaving the tricky, good fighting fish for us, while protecting populations from stunting. Their range has been depressed, and it would be nice if they expand. Give me a day of few fish and an otter watching experience over a day full of fish, anytime! When we start killing otters and native natural predators to protect a introduced fishery is the day that we might as well start stocking again. You can't have a healthy wild fishery without natural predators... especially in areas that most people fish catch and release + are closed to fishing for some of the year. Otters are not and will not be a problem for our fisheries, especially compared to all the chemicals we dump in the streams (ag runoff, stormwater, treated(not) water, road salt); compared to all the habitat we wreak (riprap, culverts, cribwalls, diversions, irrigation water taking, etc); compared to all the fishing damage (walking on redds, taking fish, introductions, C&R mortality, etc), and comparded to all the hydrological changes we cause in the system (cutting the headwater forests, paving drainages, blocking floodplains, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Otters are cool... There's little to be concerned about. As an old trapper myself back in the day, caution is advised around Otters, they can be pretty rough customers. Female Otters are weaning pups at this time of the season and can be very aggressive and territorial. I've been run off the beaver pond before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Din Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Gave myself a heart attack last summer fishing a lake in BC...couple otters appeared and didn't think much of it so I continued fishing and let my fly get down to the right depth, started stripping in back in and one of them took my clouser. Fought it breifly until it chewed through my leader, not sure what I would have done if I attempted to land the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Thanks Harps, I couldn't agree more!! Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Harps, Just have to agree with your limited number of impacts on the trout. So I guess that we add Otters to: Irrigators/Dam builders/ oil company dewaterers, OHVs [ quads/bike/etc.], cattle grazers, pipeliners, logging, various dicky birds, Pelicans, Cormorants, pike and the other fish gobbling beasts and birds + the other assorted butt heads that we chose to do little about. " The real question is where do you spend your trout resources - on the above or ????? You can't have it both ways. Either you want trout or destroyers of trout. Farley Mowat was a fiction writer. There is no balance in nature - it is dynamic. All predators increase till they run outta grub and die - except man of course - he just keeps birthing & killing till nature looks after him as well. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Hi Don, I think you can have it both ways. Sorta like the Angel's share in distilling Scotch. Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I don't begrudge these poachers a few fish. The two legged ones are the real pain in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dube Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Maybe we'll hear of some stories where an otter chomps onto a hooked fish instead of a big bully. Good potential to take the fight on land adding a whole new dimension to landing a fish. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 ricinus, We can have it any way we want it. We just have to understand that an increase of predation will result in a decrease of trout. Or another 3 River Dam destroys up 25 miles of the best trout water in Alberta. More logging/gas/coal/cows means fewer trout. And each of us have out own bench mark of when enough is enough. And after the Three River Damn - I had enough. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harps Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 There can be a balance... a dynamic balance, but balance none the less... Otters would move on and switch prey image if trout got to difficult or sparse... like I said though... suckers first. Although, we need other places for otters to go. It was a very very limited list of impacts to cold water... but I don't include "fish gobbling beasts and birds" in the mix... they are a natural part of the ecosystem tht we've screwed up. Our management only causes more damage in the long run (okay thats not completly true, but I'm in a bad mood and thinking poorly about mankind right now). I prefer to limit man's influences on cold water... its also where my career has taken me. As for the 3 rivers Damn... well I'm sure you know my opinion... I considered myself a friend of Andy Russell- I spent a lot of time sitting with him listening to stories; between him, my grandpa, and my dad I learned to respect all of the ecosystem, not just the part I was using... I also learned to fish in the areas wreaked by the dam... for me, it was a starting point. I can't take any more of Alberta's crap on that scale (although we all do every damn day). I won't roll over and die... when I lose, which unfortunately happens everyday, I'll pick up and fight some more. Maybe eventually people in this country will do some of their own fighting, and the environment will get more respect for what it provides to us>> everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchy Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Harps, Forgive me for being pretty naive with this stuff.. But when you say "suckers first".. Can I assume that there are too many suckers in alot of these streams right now? Because I would imagine that if all the suckers were gone, that would throw things out of balance too wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harps Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Birchy, I meant that suckers are a slower fish and easier prey (plus their biomass is generally much higher than trout in a healthy system... except high mountain streams). I would almost never say there are too many suckers... may there aren't enough big trout to eat young suckers though (lake systems especially). If all the suckers were wiped out it would crash the system. it would be darn near impossible to remove all the suckers though. In places like Beauvais, they actively kill suckers because they compete with the 10" trout (I don't even believe that's really an issue...the issue is over stocking with little trout, then over angling the large trout). Removing the coarse fish (one of the bottom layers on a food pyramid) would cause havoc. Just like removing the top predator causes havoc>> over abundance of deer and elk in urban areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 It seems to me that river otters have always been part of the trout streams south of the border, such as the great trout rivers is Colorado. I think their impact would be minor and perhaps even beneficial. I feel your frustration Don, because the impact might be small, but as you're saying, it's just one more thing. However, I think the real issue rests with the 'Irrigators/Dam builders/ oil company dewaterers, OHVs [ quads/bike/etc.], cattle grazers, pipeliners, logging', not to mention the mud snails, dydimo, and whirling desease that seems to be popping up in trout streams. I think shooting a few otters or pelicans would be the easiest of the problems to fix, but I also think the benefits would be negligable. The only critter we need to protect trout stream from is mankind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 Keith, Bang on - the newest bumper sticker WHACK A QUADDER -SAVE AN OTTER!! Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I'll take one of those Don. make it extra large print so the idiots can see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfishfairwx Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Keith, Bang on - the newest bumper sticker WHACK A QUADDER -SAVE AN OTTER!! Don I will take one of those and maybe as well a WHACK A QUADDER - SAVE A STREAM BED, BANK, REDD, FRY, MY BACK CAST, HIGH MOUNTAIN MEADOWS, ETC.. ...... Man I think I just pissed off a lot of QUADDER's, but use the damn things responsibly and I won't make smart ass posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry Clyde it's not meant for those that are responsible users... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rehsifylf Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Harps, Farley Mowat was a fiction writer. There is no balance in nature - it is dynamic. All predators increase till they run outta grub and die - except man of course - he just keeps birthing & killing till nature looks after him as well. Don Didn't the natives refer to him as Hardly Knowit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Pretty much the same argument as the pelican one, No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 sick find don!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.