reevesr1 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I've been thinking lately about what makes one fish more desirable than another. If we are going to release them all, what difference does it make? Where I grew up it was, and still is, caught up in how edible the fish is. Even though many of us are catch and release now, we still mostly target fish who are tasty! It doesn't hurt that they are pretty good looking fish (and just what defines good looking-we tend to target predator fish and their appearance appeals to our senses), and put up pretty good fights. But there are lots of fish that look good, fight great, and were totally ignored because they had no food value. When my dad was a kid, Galveston Bay was loaded with tarpon. They were utterly ignored as a game fish as they had no food value. My dad and a couple of his friends were among the first, and almost only, fishermen to target them because fighting them "took your breath away." Here was a gorgeous fish that in my mind exemplifies what a game fish should be, a big, FAST, gorgeous, sleek, surface fighting beasts! And no one went after them. Why? It couldn't just be that they were not good to eat. In the 50s and 60s, it's not like fishermen were fishing for sustinence. While they certainly ate what they caught, it's not like they had to. The reason noone fished for tarpon, in my mind, is the fish had no "bragability" in those days. If you came back with a story, or worse yet a dead useless fish, nobody would care. Therefore, no value. I was on a trip several years ago in southern Louisiana. I'm in a friends boat and I see a massive school of lady fish. We called them "poor man's tarpon." They get up to around 4-5 lbs, are super aggressive fish that will hit almost anything when they are feeding (hey, just like a cuttie!), spend more time in the air when fighting than in the water, fast and pull hard. What's not to like? Well, to many of the people I fish with, everything. One friend said "I don't want those slimy, bloody things in my boat." My response was "you've sorta forgotten what this is supposed to be about." But again, for many fishermen, they think "why catch them." It's not like we could have gone back to the camp and brag about all the ladyfish we caught. Noone would have cared. To this day, I feel like I missed one of the best fishing opportunities of my life. It would have been a blast. Lots of fish fall into the undesirable category, sharks among them (though that is changing). I would rather catch sharks than almost anything. As fishing has become more and more catch and release, fortunately these opinions are changing. Bonefish, tarpon, and to a lesser extent jack crevelle have become target gamefish even though they have no food value. I'm not sure if permit are edible, but it doesn't matter. They are targeted for their power and wariness, not their food value. But they now have massive "bragability!" So what of fresh water equivalents? It is easy to see why trout are desirable. They are almost without exception gorgeous fish, and almost all hard fighters. Some certainly more than others. Rainbows to me are the pinnacle around here, but that is because I think they fight the best. Browns next because they are so damn pretty and fight reasonably well. Not as active as rainbows, more a power fish. Cutties are next. Again, off the charts pretty but don't fight nearly as well (I wish I could teach them to jump!) and quite frankly can be pretty stupid. Though if truth be told, I like that in a fish from time to time! Who says it's always supposed to be hard? But what of the whitefish? Why so maligned? They are admittedly ugly. But why should that matter? What do I care what the fish looks like as long as it pulls hard? And many whities pull real hard. Some big ones can get a bit log like-but so do some browns and many bull trout (who are ugly as well, particularly the big ones). But the poor whitefish has no bragability whatsoever. How many pictures of whities do you see? Almost none, because either no one will comment at all, or if they do, it will be usually negative. I would mention the sucker here, but what would be the point? He has even fewer supporters than the whitie. I don't mind catching them, but I'm a fish whore so don't count. There is another fish in the bow that has some prestige, though in truth I don't understand why, and that's the pike. They fight like crap, at least to me, and they can ruin your day if you hand gets close to their teeth. But they have MASSIVE bragability. Why? While the strike can be really exciting in all their agressiveness, once you are past the first part of the fight, they are really boring. Now, any 10+lb fish can be a challenge on a fly rod, particularly in flowing water, but why does the pike get such great press while the whitie gets pooped on? Is it the fact the pike is the apex predator and the whitie not? I don't know the answer to these questions. Truth be known, I like to catch them all. Like most, if pressed, I would say I'd rather catch a big rainbow than almost anything around here (and I include bull trout in this-something about them just doesn't engage my imagination. This could be because I've caught lots of big fish and don't really judge a fish just on how big he gets, or if he is the apex predator) because they are just so damn much fun. But I would never turn my nose up at a whitie, or a sucker for that matter. Unless they are getting in the way of catching that big rainbow! I like to brag as much, probably more, than the next guy. Sorry for the pointless ramble. I need to go fishing! Anyone know where I can load up on whities?? 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headscan Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 That thread in the Bow river reports got me thinking the same thing too. For me it's how nice the fish looks and the fight it produces. Your order of trout preference is the same as mine - rainbows, browns, then cutties. At this time of year I kind of prefer whitefish though because they put up more fight than the trout in cold water but they're still just so damn ugly compared to trout. I think a lot of it has to do with fly fishers (we are the snobs/elitists of the fishing world after all). A lot of our trout were imported by European sport fishers who immigrated here but missed their native fish. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were fly fishers too. Their attitude is probably what filtered down over the years. After all, I've heard stories of some fishermen way back (and maybe not so way back) tossing any whitefish and bulls they caught into the bushes because they thought they interfered with the rainbows and browns. At the end of the day any fish on your hook is better than nothing and the harder the fight the better. If it looks pretty for the grip and grin photo then that's just a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeler Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Probably the attitude that every new fisherman learns from those who teach them; it gets passed down that whities are too easy to catch or suckers are dirty fish, and nnwe're also inundated with magazines and films about the cool fish, but I've never seen a whitie make the cover of a magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Well, I sure don't turn up my nose at a cracka-fish on the end of my line. Of course, I can't cast worth shite, suck at reading water, barely know a caddis from a damselfly, and have such a short attention span that many times I don't realize my indy is under until it's popping back up; can't be too picky about what's on the end of the line when I have such a high degree of flyfishing suckage! Personally, I've had more whites take me into my backing on the Bow than 'bows & browns combined. Seeing that indy dip, then feeling a living,fighting fish on when I set the hook is what gets my adrenaline going to begin with. A whitie can give me that initial thrill just as well as any trout. But, as much as I would like to believe that all fish are equal, deep down there may be a little prejudice against whites; there is that moment when I think, "Oh, it's just a whitie...". Then, I release him & cast again to try for another. I sure as heck have never moved from a run 'cuz I'm only catching crackas. I'm not quite sure where that leaves me on this topic; I certainly don't despise whities as some seem to, but I guess I do see them as slightly less desirable a catch than trout. Maybe it's 'cuz they ugly... Now, suckas- they ugly & slimey, too! Icky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 But, as much as I would like to believe that all fish are equal, deep down there may be a little prejudice against whites; there is that moment when I think, "Oh, it's just a whitie...". Then, I release him & cast again to try for another. I sure as heck have never moved from a run 'cuz I'm only catching crackas. Well Rev, my bet is most people are like that, there are just a lot who won't admit it. I remember having a blast with you one day catching some big honkin' whities. Didn't hurt that there were plenty of rainbows mixed in. I would be a bit surprised that some who feign disdain for the homely whitie in public would stand there just like we did catching big white after big white. But only if they were by themselves. Kinda like fat chicks and mopeds eh? (just quoting an old politically incorrect joke ladies. Please don't flame me!) Marc-I never really thought of the fact they fight better than trout in cold water. But now that you mention it, they certainly do seem to keep their energy in really cold water better. I wonder if that's why we catch proportionally more in the winter-higher metabolisms=more feeding than trout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhuseby Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Whities are just as much fun as trout in my book, and other than an awkward shaped head have the same general body shape as a trout, inhabit the same water, and each most of the same food. So obviously, it's in the eye of the beholder. Although I don't have a lot of saltwater experience yet, surfperch are just as much fun as coho. Same idea. Every fish has its good points and weak points, let's just appreciate them all. Just like people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jksnijders Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Early in the season I usually see whities holding in pools out West. I won't hesitate to stick on a GRHE and pop a few for fun. They are certainly slimy in my eyes, about the only thing I don't really care for. When I went through the north, the natives I talked to looked at you like you'd just got off a spaceship if you said you ate any pike. They were all about whitefish and inconnu, and had little interest in anything else it seemed. Odd, I found, we ate pike every time we got them. I guess they saw more food value in whiteys and coneys. A guy I met in Tuktoyaktuk was netting them (also called "square hooks") in the bay across from town, I met him while wandering around, and offered to give him a hand. He cleaned a couple and gave them to me, and went through all the parts they use, which included the stomach and eyeballs. Not much they didn't use. He gave me fillets and egg sacks, and said it was best fried. The fish was decent, the eggs, not bad.(Maybe moreso because we were hungry..) I managed to get a couple inconnu on spinning gear, fight like hell and get up around 40 lbs. Heard them called "freshwater tarpon", which may be true, never fished tarpon myself. I've been trying to get a lake whitey on a fly, only taken a couple cracks at them, but getting close. Goldeye are another "trash fish" or at least undesireable, when we used to go for lake sturgeon, that I saw in a different light after getting them on dries. I don't mind catching whiteys, around 20 " they're a riot I think, they'll hammer dries too I've found. It would be preferable to me if every whitey I caught would spit the hook just before I landed it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jksnijders Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Here's a pic. He was using a skinning knife too, and made pretty short work of those whiteys, filleted perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Would have to agree whiteys can be fun on a really light rod ,I'll target them in the fall.Lake white fish in most of southern Alberta's reservoirs can be huge and really fun on a fly rod .Goldeye are easy to catch with a dry fly, and anything that grabs a dry has to be fun.Hell I've even bragged about catching huge Burbs .There all good fish ,the tug is the drug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 too me its all about teh bows and browns mainily because they are teh hardest too catch pound for pound out fights a cutty brookie or whittie i love bulls and pike mainly for teh shear size these fish can get and predator nature.. nothing beats watching fish destroy another fish too me cutties are getting old.. easy too catch they do eat dries almost all teh time but they are poor fighters same with brookies... they would be jsut above the whittie in my books wich in my eyes dont fight worth a damn, are easy too catch and arnt too pretty too looke at... big lake whites tho are sweet! only because they have some jam but mainly because htey are in teh low too mid 20s and 5+ lb slabs.... it htink it all boils down too what you want too fish for.. if its all about numbers and being easy then whitties n cutties is were it is at.. if u want fish with jam go for bows n browns and if u want something that eats its babies chase bulls n pike and good table fair are brookie~! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Whitefish are not ugly rickr... I think they are just a cool looking as most fish. Different in some way...the same in others. I think any question of value can almost always come down to abundance if taste is truly not an issue. Take for instance Atlantic Salmon. When Europeans first colonized the East coast the Atlantic Salmon was so abundant that colonizers thought them useless. They killed them in the millions to use as only fertilizer to grow wheat and corn. At first they didn't even feed them to the dogs. Later they became punishment food for prisoners. Soon the slaughter and loss of habitat took their toll and as the salmon became rarer...so the value of them went up. Eventually what was only good as fertilizer became food for the wealthy only. The same scenario went for lobster. They were so super abundant that they were feed to convicts who protested and rioted about having to eat lobster so much. Now look to the horrendous fishing management regulations in Alberta. The last thing to be fixed will be regulations for whitefish. They have been considered so abundant that I have seen fisheries consultants drop kick nice health whitefish into the trees. I have seen them killed before releasing and in effect treated like suckers. As they became harvested to the point of population crashing...they to are gaining in some popularity. While not as tasteful and trout...I do not mind eating them...especially smoked. The perception of abundance is what maligns the poor whitefish. Fisheries management lack of respect has not only crashed the whitefish...but as a major forage food of bulls and large cutts and rainbows...those populations are also seriously harmed. Without the historically abundant whitefish numbers...we will never see 20 lb bulls in Alberta again. Lakers get huge eating ciscos...a relative of the whitefish... Removing ciscos would only crash a stable laker population. The interlinking of species is often missed by bureaucrats. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeremie Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You know i think sometimes whities fight more pound for pound then any trout, Besides steelhead. But are there any steelhead in alberta? NO! I've been on trips where its like a god forsaken browns or bows wont bight and catching white fish is more fun. I've found i'd rather catch a 20" whitie or Whitties in most cases then catch a dinky little 10" brown/cutt/bow. If you've got nothing better to do then rant about catching a sucker or white fish on a saturday. Suck it up/ set up the 4 wt and go have a blast catching 10-40 white fish a day and dont complain about them being a by catch, and i'll bet you as soon as alberta starts running out of 2-15 pound trout whities will boom in popularity. So give the trout a break and catch a few white fish! tight lines guys! Jeremie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydropsyche Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 the tug is the drug. What a cool saying. To hell with "tight lines" (sorry, Jeremie), this is way better!!!!! Rickr. Right on, on all counts. My comment about taking out the trash was a joke (or course). Sundance, thanks for the post (Atlantics, Lobster). I had no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Personally, I've had more whites take me into my backing on the Bow than 'bows & browns combined. huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Bob hasn't fished dry fly with a 3wt on the Bow much then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordon Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 i think whities are a great day saver,like mentioned the tug is the drug and I'd rather hook a whitie that fed on my bugs than foul hook a rainbow or brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutlover Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 One of my favorite days fishing was at sunset on a small Alberta creek fishing for 5 inch whities rising to the dry. I like em i think of them as the save the day fish only because theyèr ussually not the target my ideal fish is that 16 to 18 inch rainbow that thinks he`s a bad ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I had a great day fishing for large whites with Glenbow a few years back. Sometimes it's not about what you catch just getting out and fishing is all that counts for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vhawk12 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I fear the day I catch a sucker on the Bow, I don't want to have to touch one of those things....I don't know why Whitefish sick me out too...ha ha, and no, I'm not a girl...just maybe a bit soft...ha ha. I've caught a few Whitefish on the Bow, they fight ok, the best fight was when I foul hooked one, then they really fight like a trout. I'm reading a book right now called Fishing Montana where the author talks primarily about trout, and Whitefish and the rest of the lot he considers "trash fish", yet talks about Whitefish in the same regard as the "trash fish". He talks about fishing the Madison that you have to know your riseforms to distinguish Rainbows versus Whitefish....I didn't know that Whitefish will surface feed. I know my grandpa's attitude toward bull trout was to toss em in the bushes because they ruin the cuttie population, I'm glad that that train of thought is starting to go by the wayside, although I'm sure that sentiment is still out there to some extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flytyer Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The only undesirable fish in my mind is a dead fish that is wasted, simple as that. All fish have their merits otherwises they wouldn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjorourke Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Nice looking mountain bonefish!! I had a great day fishing for large whites with Glenbow a few years back. Sometimes it's not about what you catch just getting out and fishing is all that counts for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 that is a lake whitefish not a rocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjorourke Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 That may be but I still think whities resemble the prized bonefish very much and are quite a pretty fish. that is a lake whitefish not a rocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 that is a lake whitefish not a rocky Why do you have to be such a smarty pants??? It was an awesome Lake Bonefish caught in a river Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Thats some big ass rocks in that river! How did they get so square? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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