Size Matters

[Bigtoad]

Ok, here's a question that I've had for a while now. I want to preface it by saying that I am in no way complaining about the size of the fish in the Bow, because quite frankly, whenever I fish it (maybe twice a year?) I am blown away by the size, especially the average size, of the fish in the Bow.

 

However, I've been wondering why aren't there 15+ lb rainbows and browns in the Bow like in other places,like New Zealand for instance? (I've been there, fished some, and saw a couple of monsters. When the local flyshop says "if you see a log that looks like a fish but you think "that can't be a fish... it's way too big to be a fish." well, believe it, it's a fish," you know there are some hogs around). I saw a couple browns and rainbows pushing 15 lbs and let me tell you, they were a sick sight to behold.

 

So anyway, back to the question, why aren't there bigger fish in such a great river like the Bow? Is it the long winter that slows down growth? The fishing pressure? Or are there some seriously monster fish in the Bow that just rarely get fooled into being caught? It seems like growth just kind of stops at maybe 8 lbs or so (still a sick fish... obviously, I get that). So why does it stop there?

 

Any insights?

 

Chees

[SanJuanWorm]

There are monsters in there. Very rare though. My personal biggest is 9lbs 29 inches.

[luukesh]

Yep, break out the 25 pound test and throw a worm in the rain.......

[SanJuanWorm]

Ha thats the only way to get em.

 

Just make sure luukesh is there to take a photo.

[Bigtoad]

There are monsters in there. Very rare though. My personal biggest is 9lbs 29 inches.

 

 

That is sick. Any photos? Brown, Rainbow, or sucker? Why aren't there more that size?

 

Cheers.

[Tungsten]

i think there are lots of 10lb plus fish in the river ,if you had a 12" long whitefish streamer pattern your chances would be better.

[toolman]

I don't believe there are very many trout over 10lbs in the Bow. The shorter growing season, available food sources and colder water temps of the Bow, would be my guess as to why the New Zealand trout are larger.

[SanJuanWorm]

Just a blurry blackberry pic. Max and I will visit this one next year.

 

 

Hawgstoppah caught the biggest rainbow i've ever seen come out of the bow. I believe its bigger than this brown.

[toolman]

That's a giant Brown, SJW.

 

Here are my best Brown and Rainbow trout from the Bow...

 

[SanJuanWorm]

I'd love to see anyone catch a 15lber outta the bow.

[agbff]

dems some big feesh eh?

[SanJuanWorm]

Yes I caught this one on a midge with 7x on my 3 weight during run off.

[OneMoreLastCast]

It has to do with the Strain/Sub-Species of Rainbow in the River as well.

 

As shown in the latest "Humble Fishermen's" video with the big escaped Farm rainbows, fish can grow to extraordinary sizes in a short period. These fish were only in the same water system for a few years and some of them were as long as, and much fatter than your above average Bow River Rainbow. They are obviously a different sub-species.

 

All Diploid trout mature and basically stop growing. They live an average of 4-6 years in perfect conditions and when you throw in the short season, that usually brings not so ideal Trout conditions with high water temperatures most years. Add the extreme winter conditions and it's easy to see why it is rare to see Trout over 10 lbs.

 

Triploids don't mature in the same way that Diploids do, so they continue to grow and actually live longer. So with the recent stockings in surrounding lakes, we will definitely see some trophys again in the province. (And please nobody suggest stocking Trips in our rivers.....)

 

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely Trout over 10 lbs in the Bow. I've been fortunate enough to land some "Fish of a Lifetime's". Whether these fish escaped from the hatchery and might be different strains, or they found some ideal conditions to grow big.....I'd post my personal best from the Bow, but I save it for stories around the campfire with friends. Plus, you wouldn't believe me.

 

If you want to see some of the Bow's biggest fish first hand, volunteer for the Carseland Irrigation Canal Netting. I've seen fish pushing 12-13 lbs returned to the river from the Canal.

 

Places like New Zealand, etc. are exceptions, but you'll be hard pressed to find another river with an Average fish like the Bow. So there is the chance of catching that 10 pounder, but releasing fish after fish in the 20 inch Range while you try isn't too bad I'd say.

 

At the end of the day, it's rare to find Trout elsewhere that fight like the Bow River Rainbow's of the same size.

[rusty]

Yes I caught this one on a midge with 7x on my 3 weight during run off.

 

Yeah right Dave...more like a pickerel rig and a couple of big nightcrawlers.

[Bigtoad]

It has to do with the Strain/Sub-Species of Rainbow in the River as well.

 

As shown in the latest "Humble Fishermen's" video with the big escaped Farm rainbows, fish can grow to extraordinary sizes in a short period. These fish were only in the same water system for a few years and some of them were as long as, and much fatter than your above average Bow River Rainbow. They are obviously a different sub-species.

 

All Diploid trout mature and basically stop growing. They live an average of 4-6 years in perfect conditions and when you throw in the short season, that usually brings not so ideal Trout conditions with high water temperatures most years. Add the extreme winter conditions and it's easy to see why it is rare to see Trout over 10 lbs.

 

Triploids don't mature in the same way that Diploids do, so they continue to grow and actually live longer. So with the recent stockings in surrounding lakes, we will definitely see some trophys again in the province. (And please nobody suggest stocking Trips in our rivers.....)

 

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely Trout over 10 lbs in the Bow. I've been fortunate enough to land some "Fish of a Lifetime's". Whether these fish escaped from the hatchery and might be different strains, or they found some ideal conditions to grow big.....I'd post my personal best from the Bow, but I save it for stories around the campfire with friends. Plus, you wouldn't believe me.

 

If you want to see some of the Bow's biggest fish first hand, volunteer for the Carseland Irrigation Canal Netting. I've seen fish pushing 12-13 lbs returned to the river from the Canal.

 

Places like New Zealand, etc. are exceptions, but you'll be hard pressed to find another river with an Average fish like the Bow. So there is the chance of catching that 10 pounder, but releasing fish after fish in the 20 inch Range while you try isn't too bad I'd say.

 

At the end of the day, it's rare to find Trout elsewhere that fight like the Bow River Rainbow's of the same size.

 

 

Great info, thanks.

 

And again, I'm not complaining about the size... catching 20+ inch fish on a regular basis just spoils a guy. My fishing is usually ruined for a few weeks after I fish the Bow just because no where else can I catch that big of fish so regularly. It's like eating the best steak you've ever had (which by the way is ALWAYS on the Bow on my annual overnight float trip, slowly cooked over the coals after it's been marinating for a couple days... seriously best steak I've ever tasted!) and then going back to eating some processed meat crap. It just ruins a guy.

 

And the fight! You're right, even the 16 inchers have some kind of complex and think that they are 18's. Pound for pound they could go up against any, anywhere.

 

Cheers.

[bigbrown]

disclaimer: not my fish

 

And yes, that is over 10 lbs, and it is super clean

[Keith]

I lived in New Zealand for a while and I also puzzled over the same question. I think the most important question is constant temperature, but I also think that subspecies/strain and the presence of large water bodies plays a part. Constant temp seems the main factor to me. In New Zealand, especially on the North Island the temperature is relatively constant all year round. They don't get below zero or above 25 too often, which keeps the fish in their ideal conditions. As we all know, Alberta has one of the more nasty winters on earth, but we've also had some seriously hot weeks lately, which are hard on the fish as well. NZ gets none of those. NZ has the most efficient agricultural sector on earth for a reason - the constant temps make it a great place to grow things and that means bugs and fish too.

 

Another thing NZ has is a lot of large lakes and reservoirs on both islands. In a lot of rivers, including the famous Tongariro the largest fish are generally fish that run up out of these large bodies of water. So essentially they are catching land-locked steelhead. As far as I know we don't have something similar to that in Alberta, but in BC and Ontario the similar situation occurs with trout in the 15 - 20 lb range being caught in rivers (Larger if you count the Gerrards). Trout as large as 50lbs spawn up out of kootney lake into the Gerrard river, although you are not allowed to fish them when they are in the river. Check out the DVD 'Landing the trout of your life' by John Barr and Landon Mayer to see them catching 15-18lb browns that run up out of Lake Ontario.

 

As mentioned above, strain can be a big factor. I am not sure of the strain/life-history forms that were stalked in NZ. However, in Blue Ribbon Bow, Jim Mclennan mentions that it is suspected that Bow River Rainbows are from a Californian Steelhead strain. This was determined from stocking histories, and makes sense given their silver colour, long spawing travels and hard fighting. So this would factor into the size of the Bow 'bows, although not all steelhead strains are necessarily huge.

 

I know the Bow has been electrofished in the past. That data must be public or there must have been some volunteers along for the ride. If the river does have any of those mystery lunkers that rarely get caught, I suspect one or two would have been shocked over the years. Anyone know anything about that?

[SanJuanWorm]

Very interesting Keith, thanks for sharing.

[jonny5]

I think places with an ocean tend to get bigger trout (steelhead and seatrout)... When I was in norway I saw a photo of a 22kg brown, that had to be a sea run. Out on the west coast, you can catch cutties in the salt water near the creeks and rivers, but those don't tend to get as big as rainbows or browns that spend time in the ocean.

 

Send a letter to you MP asking for a canal to be dug across BC so we get access to the ocean, and I bet we would be getting some nice big trout up here.

[RDevonshire]

I have been raised fishin the bow most of my life and l can honestly say there are trout in there over 10+, But like one member mentioned you have to fish big most of the time to get them, they dont get that way being dumb they want it big and easy. Some of my best experiences for big trout and pike would have to be down by caresland in a few choice spots. Whether spring for the huge rainbows or fall for the huge browns and pike. Next time anyones down there try a top water rapala and see what comes up might be the biggest trout you ever seen in the bow. About 7years ago me and buddy went down there at fall time and my buddy got a 14.6 brown, Monster on top water. He still has the polaroid on his fridge. Fish heavy gear cause if you go light well some fish just wont move. THE HOGS

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I believe a combination of food, nutrient loading, genetics, water temperature, seasonal stream factors, fish concentration and fishing pressure all plays a huge factor.

 

Take for instance Bull Trout and Alberta fishing in general. I found some interesting observations.

 

1. Food. Clearly the most obvious example in Alberta is the Crowsnest River. Upstream of the Coleman sewage pipe the rocks are clean, there are fewer fish and they are smaller. More food means more and larger fish. Prey species and type and availability has been overlooked by management people. Mountain whitefish were often killed and dumped into the trees but now people realize that their young of the year and juvenilles are awesome food for rainbows, browns and bulls. They provide such a huge boost in food quality that they can make the difference between small and larger fish over time.

 

2. Nutrient loading. When you fish a high mountain stream for years and year you are effectively removing a lot of nutrients that have accumulated in that stream. Unlike salmon spawning streams, our foothill streams receive very few natural pulses of new nutrients. When you remove enough biomass that effects fish size. You can plot historical success of salmon spawning in BC based upon tree ring growth. Salmon biomass actually grows trees. Relatively pristine foothills streams need that replentishment of nutrients to help the next generation. A giant bull trout dead under a cutbank or tree could add a lot of nutrients to feed bugs and then trout.

 

3. Genetics are huge. Some chinook salmon strains for instance give rise to 100 lbers while other strains struggle to reach 15 - 20 lbs. Arctic Char give rise to three distinct size classes of which the size class favors the parent's size class. For rainbow trout, we have many, many strains that do well in some instances and not others. Killing the big bull trout has for sure harmed our streams for future shots at such fish. Some runs of bull trout were large river dwellers and some lake dwellers and some small stream dwellers. Kill off a portion of those genetics make is almost impossible to recover.

 

4. Water temperature can have two effects. On one hand if too cold it can slow down a fishes growth while on the other hand can extend a fishes life. For Lake Trout, more northern varieties can live longer than southern strains. Optimum water temperature can make a huge difference on growth rates for rainbow trout for instance. Hatcheries in Montana can grow much bigger trout than a hatchery in Alberta over the same period of time.

 

5. Season stream factors such as ice, snow, heavy rains and run offs and even high temperatures can dramatically alter a fishes ability to eat and grow.

 

6. Fish concentration or numbers of fish per kilometer of stream or within a lake can dramatically alter the growth rates. While I would strongly link this to available food resources, quite often people may say why not just throw more fish in when stocking. The problem is you can stunt their growth or have them starve and die based upon number of fish versus available food. Yellow perch actually evolved the genetics to stunt themselve so that more individuals can effectively fit into a smaller volume of water.

 

7. Fishing pressure also plays a huge factor on fish sizes purely as a result of impacting the population through culling out the big ones and in a naturally reproducing population culling out the genetics that grow the big ones. In a heavily fished body of water often the largest fish get killed first if they are succeptible to harvest or poaching. Therefore fisheries management can alter the slot or size limit to favor keeping bigger fish. Fishing pressure also impact on spawning and size class success. When doing research on past historical fishing success and pressure it was very much evident that all foothill streams had some massive bull trout living in them. Over time those fish were killed. The upper Elbow once had lots of huge bull trout but now they are in trouble.

 

Just some of my observations over the years.

 

Cheers

 

Sun

[alhuger]

It has to do with the Strain/Sub-Species of Rainbow in the River as well.

 

If you want to see some of the Bow's biggest fish first hand, volunteer for the Carseland Irrigation Canal Netting. I've seen fish pushing 12-13 lbs returned to the river from the Canal.

 

I realize this is an old thread but how does one volunteer for the Carseland Irrigation Canal Netting?

[Keith]

I realize this is an old thread but how does one volunteer for the Carseland Irrigation Canal Netting?

 

 

Contact TU's provincial biologist Brian Meagher (bmeagher@tucanada.org). He will let you know the fish rescue schedule and how to get involved.

[uliwon]

if you are referring to year classes missing its easy...spawning conditions. The Bow had some serious spring blow outs in the last few years correct? Pretty much count on those spawning cycles to have poor egg survival, therefore a year class of fish in smaller numbers. Browns are less effected as they are fall spawners and rarely effected by spring freshet.

 

Big trout are two things...increasingly piscavorus (sp?) ie: Minnow eating pigs....as they get large, and, particularly browns as pointed out, nocturnal...

 

I have watched 10-15 lb Brown trout chase 12" whitefish around near the highwood mouth many years ago...most seriously large trout I recall, (over 28") were caught below the highwood in the summer, and of course closer to town in the fall.

 

A decent brown is 10lbs at 30"...plus or minus 1 lb for every plus or minus an inch. 27" Brown maybe is 7lb if its fatter female, males less (jaws and big heads don't carry weight)...28" = 8lbs, 29=9lb etc...

 

That beauty Brown shown is nice, but unless weighed in a net, I doubt it over 10lbs...from my experience killing alot of Steelhead back in the day...but what a dandy!

 

length x girth2 devided by 800 is only reasonably accurate...you need to consider other factors like gender, head size, and belly girth...a big brownie with a 8" sucker in its belly (that you can't see) can change alot...weight them in the net and subtract the net weight...no errors there

 

 

[jksnijders]

 

 

 

The biggest Rainbow I ever saw came from a canal.