How To Manage A World Class Fishery In You Backyard

[Kyle]

One final word before I go back to the bushes. Why not let the fish managers manage the fish? There's a reason for these people you know. They're good.

 

Hey Kris,

Once you are a fisheries biologist think you could change around the pike regs in this province, or atleast talk some sense into the retards who made the regs? Right now it is asking to keep the big spawning females aka. 3 over 25 inches (which is obviously not good) Just want to make sure your managing the fish

 

uh-oh I said pike on this forum

[Tako]

Hey Kris,

Once you are a fisheries biologist think you could change around the pike regs in this province, or atleast talk some sense into the retards who made the regs? Right now it is asking to keep the big spawning females aka. 3 over 25 inches (which is obviously not good) Just want to make sure your managing the fish

 

uh-oh I said pike on this forum

 

Silly Kyle. Pike on a trout forum. When we goin goose shootin?

I don't know jack about pike but I'll go out on a limb and say they're similar to walleye? So you got two options.

1) Remove some mature adults (who are possibly too old to spawn, however a stage rarely reached in fish) to avoid excessive harvests on juvenile fish, which are your future harvestable fish populations. As long as the adult harvest is sustainable and you're still meeting your spawning success rates, you're all good.

2) Remove a small number of juveniles (as you seem to prefer) and keep the big boys for guaranteed spawning success, which can potentially lead to an overpopulation of stunted pike?

The two management approaches will be used differently under different circumstances.

 

I think. I don't know jack about pike though. I'm more or less guessing based on what I know about slot sizes, which ain't much.

[toolman]

Thought I would mention that even though the number of angler license's sold, has dropped slightly in Alberta, folks who are flyfishing, may be doing so more often than they have previously. This would account for the percieved increase in the number of anglers on the water.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

so would the increase in cross province fisherman, as well as people from the states.

[Ricinus]

I wouldn't be surprised if the collapse of the Walleye fishery has led to the reduction of licences sold. As for crowding, it seems to be more of a problem on easily accessible waters. For what ever reason a lot of Farmers and Ranchers are not allowing access thru their property which forces more pressure on waters accessed thru public land.

 

Regards Mike

[Guest bigbadbrent]

I think the main thing this site needs to exemplify, and should insist on when anyone asks a question about fishing anywhere is etiquette. I grew up fishing small streams with my dad, where if you saw another guy, you'd go say hello, tell him that he can have whichever pool he wants, and then we'd walk a couple kms the other way before starting fishing again. We had lots of guys do this to us, so we thought it was the standard way of being good. Its only in the last couple years that the etiquette is going downhill. Maybe people don't realise, or they do and just don't care, but I'm sick and tired of people seeing me heading up a run that they are wanting to fish, and they literally run to the top of the run and start walking down, to make it look like they are going to get all of it (happened to me on tuesday) or people who leapfrog one pool on a small river...i could rant for hours on this, but i'm gonna be a lot uglier in person this year if it keeps up.

 

hell, i wouldn't care if everyone just ASKED before stepping into a pool.

 

Just because the river is busier, doesn't mean that etiquette has to be thrown out the door. I know i'm tired of giving up the spot i've walked an hour to, because some yahoo decided to budge in right beside me.

 

I could see it turning to combat fishing, where there is no such thing as being a friendly guy on the river. People will start driving to the river fully rigged up, and race to the pool if they see someone else....it's supposed to be a 'gentlemans sport', but it's getting ridicilous.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I think the main thing this site needs to exemplify, and should insist on when anyone asks a question about fishing anywhere is etiquette. I grew up fishing small streams with my dad, where if you saw another guy, you'd go say hello, tell him that he can have whichever pool he wants, and then we'd walk a couple kms the other way before starting fishing again. We had lots of guys do this to us, so we thought it was the standard way of being good. Its only in the last couple years that the etiquette is going downhill. Maybe people don't realise, or they do and just don't care, but I'm sick and tired of people seeing me heading up a run that they are wanting to fish, and they literally run to the top of the run and start walking down, to make it look like they are going to get all of it (happened to me on tuesday) or people who leapfrog one pool on a small river...i could rant for hours on this, but i'm gonna be a lot uglier in person this year if it keeps up.

 

hell, i wouldn't care if everyone just ASKED before stepping into a pool.

 

Just because the river is busier, doesn't mean that etiquette has to be thrown out the door. I know i'm tired of giving up the spot i've walked an hour to, because some yahoo decided to budge in right beside me.

 

I could see it turning to combat fishing, where there is no such thing as being a friendly guy on the river. People will start driving to the river fully rigged up, and race to the pool if they see someone else....it's supposed to be a 'gentlemans sport', but it's getting ridicilous.

 

I have seen the same problem just get worse as the years pass. I stopped fishing the Livingstone after a year of having people arrive late, walk quickly upstream of me and start pounding the water. They just did not care how I felt. I have asked about joining in the "cycle" through a pool on the Bow only to be "told" where I can fish on the periphery. Then what do you do? I am not in the mood to fight over fishing water with some power trip fishing psycho. Some of the best pools in the Bow are huge and one just bounces through them and starts over. Those guys would flip having to fish steelhead in BC shoulder to shoulder.

 

Sigh...

 

Small creeks are even worse now cause I have had guys do strange things. Once I started fishing a small creek first thing in the morning. Some guy showed up about two hours later...started walking upstream till he saw me and then leaped ahead into the next pool. When he saw me walking past he reeled in and ran upstream again to get to the next best pool. That continued until I was fed up and kept walking for 1/2 hour to get away from the jerk.

 

What can you do other than promote proper behaviour on a site such as this.

 

Maybe we need a new section called etiquette questions and answers...

 

Cheers

 

Sun

[Guest bigbadbrent]

I think on the bow its kinda sad that people think they need to be in your pool though. There are so many fish, that they are everywhere and it's not needed to hop in a pool with someone. This is kinda of mute in the winter, where they are kinda stacked up, but even then, there is enough winter holes and not that far apart on the bow that is should discourage people all congregating to one pool.

 

 

I've had a guide almost get in a fight with me on cataract, because i was planning on going upstream of him, with the thought that i would be going nearly 4 kms upstream to my favourite pool (without stopping to fish..). He wanted to know where i was going, and when i told him, he said 'no your not'...almost got in a fist fight...i still wanna pound the guy (and yes, i went to my favourite pool..)...I still regret not rocking every pool on the way there..

[toolman]

For me, the etiquette rules on the Bow are simple. Let people have their space. Don't be crowding in on the run if someone is fishing there. Say hello to everyone you meet through the day. If someone is at a run, they may be interested in fishing a dry fly and it won't be cool to go through the water with a nymph/streamer rig, doing the Steelhead shuffle. So, if it's really busy on the water, go somewhere else. It's that simple. I never have anyone getting po'ed at me for my river etiquette.

If you see me fishing a run that you would like a shot at, then come and say hello before attempting to step in on the run or I will run you off. It's that simple

Show me a bit of respect and I'll likely share or give you the water, after I have a go at it for a short period of time.

[headscan]

I hate to say it, but you're not going to see this get any better. Etiquette in general is pretty much dying off everywhere. When you put on your turn signal to change lanes how often does the guy behind you in the other lane speed up so you can't get in front of him? How many times has the person on the elevator pressed the "close door" button even though they see you running towards it? Etiquette on the rivers is just heading in the same direction. Your choices are to either deal with it or let it bother you to the detriment of the rest of your day. Sure throwing a punch might seem like a good idea - at least it might make you feel better for a few minutes - but think how ridiculous it will sound when you say to the arresting officer or the presiding judge that you hit him because he leap-frogged you or jumped in your pool. Maybe the CBC can do a documentary on it one day - River Rage! Just treat others the same way you'd want them to treat you and if you introduce anyone to fishing teach them to behave the same way you do. If you stoop to the level of the idiots, you're just perpetuating their behaviour and demeaning yourself.

 

Anyways, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[vhawk12]

I don't see a problem starting upstream from someone...if you go a ways up. I mean, should there be a "start here" sign and then everyone just lines up and works their way up to the "stop here" sign? If you get to the river first, does that mean that you have first 'dibs' to all pools upstream of you? No, you don't. To me it comes down to courtesy...I will work upstream and down, sometimes I work upstream with dries, and walk back to the truck, sometimes I will work up with dries and nymph on the way down, I will reel in and walk around a pool if there's a guy in it, ask him how it's going etc. if there's a bunch of people, I'll probably just go somewhere else. I was taught to be respectful and friendly, and have had stuff happen on the river, but it's just a sign of the times. I know that my dad has pretty much quit fishing because of what goes on on the rivers these days and I do fear what it is going to be like for my 4 yr old when he gets to be my age.

[toolman]

From the Alberta Sportfishing Regulations...

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Alberta Angling Ethic

 

In accordance with the Fish and Wildlife Policy, the Alberta Government promotes the following angling ethics.

 

The ethical fisherman has respect for wild creatures, knowledge of his natural surroundings, a sense of fair play and consideration for the rights and expectations of others. Fishing, as promoted by the Alberta government, should foster an ethical relationship of the highest order between the angler, his quarry, his fellow anglers, and the natural environment. Ethical conduct is expected of anglers in Alberta.

 

1. Maintain the sport of recreational fishing. Emphasize the fishing experience. Use sporting methods, gear (lures, line type and amount of technology) appropriate to the type of fishing and the size of fish desired.

 

2. Provide proper care and handling of caught or released fish. Fish are to be released with the greatest possible care and minimal amount of handling. Fish that are kept should be killed quickly once they are out of the water and in such a manner that their edible or trophy value is preserved.

 

3. Conduct sportfishing activities that result in the least disturbance to the surrounding environment. Refrain from littering land and water. Take refuse to a proper disposal site.

 

4. Respect the need and expectations of your fellow anglers. Treat other sport anglers with common courtesy: (a) leave room for others to fish, ( disturb the fish as little as possible, © leave the fishing site in the same condition as it was found, (d) don't remain in one fishing spot too long, (e) be cooperative and understanding, (f) keep only as many fish as you require to enjoy the sport.

 

5. Consider other landusers. Carry out fishing activities in a manner that minimizes conflict with other landusers and anglers.

 

6. Respect the rights of landowners. Request permission for access across private property. The landowner has the right to grant or refuse access.

 

7. Follow angling regulations. Know and abide by all fishing regulations and encourage others to do the same.

 

8. Anglers have a duty to address illegal activities in a safe manner. Angler’s actions could range from alerting others to closed waters or wrong size or species being kept to reporting all observed violations of angling regulations to the Alberta Fish and Wildlife Division. It is important to collect pertinent information (such as vehicle licence numbers, violator descriptions, etc.) that will assist enforcement actions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fish and Wildlife Division

Alberta Sustainable Resource Development

Great West Life Building, 9920 108 Street

Edmonton, Alberta T5K 2M4

Email: Fish.Guide@gov.ab.ca

[Guest bigbadbrent]

I don't see a problem starting upstream from someone...if you go a ways up. I mean, should there be a "start here" sign and then everyone just lines up and works their way up to the "stop here" sign? If you get to the river first, does that mean that you have first 'dibs' to all pools upstream of you? No, you don't.

 

 

I think you do have dibs to at least have the other guys that show up later, give u the courtesy of coming and asking you where you're heading. If you're following up behind a guy, you better leapfrog a hell of a lot of pools to not make him mad. I've had days on the river where im there at 8am, guy shows up at 9 and leapfrogs me one pool. Thats absolute garbage. Anyone that fishes with me knows that i boot through 2-10 kms a day of river walking..a guy leapfrogging another person is a good way to piss someone off. At the least you can ask which way they're heading, and where they started. If they started in that pool you're looking at, why not go downstream a few pools, they haven't touched them, and by the time you're back to the pool they started on, its fully rested.

 

 

Being there first should be the end all way of determining who gets what pool. They got their early, its their RIGHT to that pool they want to fish without being bothered or having to share. If they want to share, then they'll let you know when you ask.

 

I don't care if people fish behind me, i care when people put themselves in front of me, its blatant disregard for the other person.

[DonAndersen]

For rent:

 

A Louisville slugger with MANNERS stencilled on the side. Ignore the blood and hair. Doesn't slow down the swing. Used occasionally on the Crow.

 

Don

[vhawk12]

Well where does one get in then on a busy day on the river? Sure, if there's only a couple of you it makes sense to space out as much as possible. Like I said, go up a ways, but not stop right in the next pool. I find on the Livingston, lots of times you only get one cast and the fish can be down for half an hour after. I just don't like guys who think they have the right to the entire river because they were there first....To me, they have dibs on a reasonable amount of water, but not all of it. I also said to be friendly and respect other anglers, to me if you are considerate, you won't usually have a problem. I'm just saying that some guys think they own the river and your the tresspasser because you got there a bit later, which I disagree with. I have a problem when there is tons of open water and the guy starts fishing the same pool as you. I guess I just think that you should spread out as evenly as possible according to the amount of people on the river...if you see one other guy, then head a good distance either way, if there are 10 guys, go to the stretch with the most space between it? How would you know where to hop in if there are 10 guys? or 20? otherwise?

[Guest bigbadbrent]

thats when you don't hop in. you missed ur chance to fish that run. you should hop back in your car and move, or start hoofing..thats my definition of 'paying ur dues'..

 

wake up earlier, take the day off work, whatever it takes, walk your balls off, thats paying your dues. Chances are if you're there earlier then anyone, you get choice of the 'best' run, and if you walk far enough, you'll stop putting urself into that position.

 

A river is never so busy that you won't find a spot to fish where you're not going to piss someone off, especially the livingstone, oldman, highwood, bow, crow, etc etc etc. Fish the spots that everyone is ignoring, fish aren't dumb, they'll move into the spots where they aren't being pressured (i love following guys who are going pool to pool, not fishing the pocket water inbetween)

[Brownstone]

A .. If you know me, come and fish with me

 

B .. If you don't know me, come introduce yourself and refer to A

 

 

don;t walk around me in the bushes with your head down not saying a word hoping to "beat" me to the next pool, I don't care, I'll share the water with anybody who has the decency to talk to a fellow fisherman...Ive met many strangers on the Bow and end up fishing the rest of the day with them, and made a friend. If your gonna be fishing a crowded river, why not know the crowd. Face it, the Bow is seeing more and more pressure every season both from waders and floaters, and if your etiquette is lacking, fishing it is going to become less appealing for alot of people. Calgary is one of the fastest growing places in Canada and holds some of the finest trout water in North America, your not gonna keep her to yourself..

[vhawk12]

Sounds good to me Brownstone!

[trailhead]

The recommendations in the regs are good ones to follow. I have come upon fishers on the river and asked which way they were going and they replied "guess". So I moved up a few pools and fished upstream of them, I guess they were going downstream

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I have read it a few times and the operative is "RESPECT". There is an apparent lack of respect for others and I see it a lot in every day life. Improving on that amongst fellow fishermen can only rub off on others which is a great thing.

 

When I see a lack of respect for others on this board...I shudder to think what people will be like on the creeks etc.

 

Cheers.

 

Kevin

[Hawgstoppah]

River etiquitte at crowded spots has been bad on the bow for 10 or more years. Being there first doesn't seem to metter to some people, even when there's tons of fish elsewhere. If they see YOU catching fish in YOUR spot, there gonna crowd you and tangle in your lines and do everything they can to try and bust in on the spot that your catching fish at. Then when YOU get pissed off after 5 hours of this kind of behavoir, and have left your spot several times to catch lots of fish where others where fishing and getting nothing, and have the same jackasses continue to step all over you, then the same people will flame you all over internet bulletin boards and in flyshops for years, telling tales of how "you" are a pompous ass with no respect for others, even though it was you who got walked all over.

 

So yea, river etiquitte's been gone to hell for a long time. I personally go by the rule of, if you wanna fish where I am come talk to me. If you wanna fish where I am and don't talk to me (like all the jackasses on the day I refer to) then I'm gonna make your fishing through where I am a miserable time for you. Anyone who comes up to me and chats before fishing, is more than welcome to fish where I'm at and will probably get info on how deep, what flies, and where....

 

Etiqutte on one small stream down here I have fished a couple times is, if someone's paked there, don't go... period.

[wtforward]

Another problem or change I see today is people taking up permanent

residence at pools. It helps if everyone gives pools there best shot with

consideration to time in mind and other fisherman following then move on. That can help greatly in keeping

everyone on the move an can reduce leap frogging. I have encountered three to four

consecutive pools all taken up by fisherman and finally gave up trying to leave

pools for the front guy. After a considerable amount of time had passed (hrs) and working my way back

done stream had discovered the same guys still occupying the spot(s). It

looks almost like learned behaviour out of the steelhead community. Hole hogging

is bad form. I carry copies of a flyfishing etiquette write up in my vest. I got it off a Montana site

which was developed to handle pressure on some of there better know streams.

If I run into a potential confrontation I offer it up if the person(s) is interested. If not that is

fine and I just move on. Not everyone getting into the sport is aware of the 'consideration

for others' side of the sport and usually are eager to learn. Then there are the others........!

[darthwader]

I have read it a few times and the operative is "RESPECT". There is an apparent lack of respect for others and I see it a lot in every day life. Improving on that amongst fellow fishermen can only rub off on others which is a great thing.

 

When I see a lack of respect for others on this board...I shudder to think what people will be like on the creeks etc.

 

That doesn't concern me as much Kevin... people are way "tougher" behind a key board than they are in person.

 

You are right though RESPECT is the key word. Do unto others...

 

I guess I will wade into this discussion, beacuse it is interesting and it is important. We are fly fishing in Calgary. By that I mean everyone who is on this board represents Fly Fishing in Calgary. If you run into someone on the river, there is a very good chance they at least visit this board if they are not a full blown member. We, as a community, can not do much about what has been done in the past, but we can do lots to influence the future. It is our responsibility to educate and guide new fly fishers as they enter the sport with regards to conservation and etiquette with as much vigor as we show them techniques and great rivers. We are fly fishing in the Calgary area and we owe it to the trout and those who taught us to make sure the incoming generation has the tools to keep the sport both alive and civil.

 

Secondly, with so many people trying to make a living off of the river, it is impossible to stop the growth we have seen in anglers. These peoples livelyhoods depend on this river and they will promote it to get people out and fishing. You can now buy your fly gear at wal mart, can tire and then how many different fishing stores... fly fishing specific and not. That's not including guides. So the fact of the matter is... people who depend on the Bow and new fly fishers will promote the river and will continue to try to introduce new anglers to the sport, as their business depends on it. It's what we teach this army of newbies that will determine the future of fly fishing in Calgary.

 

Thirdly, if we could somehow create more pothole fisheries that were put and take that could keep those who are more interested in beating and eating fish out of the Bow and Crow and Oldman etc ... we might have a better chance of keeping down the numbers of people fishing. I think there is a kind of fishermen who likes to get out with the boys, pound a few beers and whack a few fish and the Bow probably is the place for him/her. But, I guess we are talking about the growth of fly fishing on the river so this topic is moot. I have wondered about the possibility of the Bow going fly fishing only...but I shudder to consider what that could mean and I realize that it is probably a selfish thought.

 

Finally, we have to realize that fly fishing is lots of things to lots of people. This forum is a tremendous resource for so many people and it is dissapointing to see idiots take good threads and show the rest of the world just how stupid they really are. I have seen other web sites like this go down... you all know what I am talking about... and I would hate to see this one encounter the same fate. I guess, if we can say anything, it's that everyone on this website is very passionate about flyfishing and flyfishing as a whole is better off for it. Now if we could just channel that passion to something constructive instead of some of the garbage that goes on...we will all be that much better for it.

 

Is it June 16th yet...can't wait to try a diferent river.

 

Later

[reevesr1]

Darthwader,

Great post. When I see opinions that state etiquette and propper behavior are things of the past and there is nothing we can do, while I know that could be true, I think we still have to try. The battle is not necessarily lost, particlarly with forums like this around.

 

Most people I've met on this river are actually pretty good. I try to remember that when I meet the jerks. They are still the minority.

 

As to talking to people on the river, if I'm fishing and they are passing, I almost always say hello. If its the other way around, I'll say hello if they make any effort at all to acknowledge my prescence. If not, I keep walking. I also have no problem (with one notable exception) asking if they want to share a run I am fishing. That said, I also have no issue with people parking in a big run (I do it from time to time) if they are willing to share. If you don't agree, my advice would be to get up earlier, or be prepared too walk a long ways to get away from everyone, or go fish some less crowded river. I hear the North Sask is nice

 

This morning I rode the bus to the train station. Whe my bus stopped, so did another and two busloads of people started movinf towards the train. Some started almost running to get to the front. I decided to wait for the next train. But a funny thing happened. Everyone went into the first two cars, packed in because they were afraid of missing the train. I continued to slowly walk toward the end of the train and got a seat in the almost empty 2nd to last car. I'm typing this from that seat

 

There is a lesson in that.