Rewarding illegal stocking

[DonAndersen]

Smitty,

Perch are invasive as are trout in lakes where they did not occur naturally.

The question that should be asked, which lake stocking species draws the most Anglers?

All of the lakes with the exception of Burnstick and Swan in the Rocky area were fish free.

When trout were in Cow Lake you couldn’t find a place to park. Last year, opening day with illegally stocked perch and Govt stocked pike, there were a whole two of us fishing. 

Cow Lake raised trout to 15 lbs.

Sad - what a waste of Fishing opportunity. 

 

Don

 

[Smitty]

1 hour ago, DonAndersen said:

Smitty,

Perch are invasive as are trout in lakes where they did not occur naturally.

The question that should be asked, which lake stocking species draws the most Anglers?

All of the lakes with the exception of Burnstick and Swan in the Rocky area were fish free.

When trout were in Cow Lake you couldn’t find a place to park. Last year, opening day with illegally stocked perch and Govt stocked pike, there were a whole two of us fishing. 

Cow Lake raised trout to 15 lbs.

Sad - what a waste of Fishing opportunity. 

 

Don

 

Don, as usual, despite your impression, on a basic, fundamental level, we agree. 

For invasives, you say puhtata, I say poe-tay-toe! (Anyone catch the LOTR reference there?) Therefore, by your logic, Brown and Brook trout are invasives as well, as you well know.  Lots of native fish in Red Deer / Clearwater - North Sask water basins before the Europeans showed up. The minnows, whitefish, bull trout, suckers, walleye and pike weren't stocked, to my knowledge (by all means clarify the facts if I am wrong...).  Funny how you'll tolerate brown and brook, but you have your hackles raised for native-yet-invasive cutts in nearly vacant niche like the Upper Ram...

And I know of Cow lake's potential. Another example; Crawling Valley was predicted to have the next rainbow trout record; but according to Kyle McNeilly it was always intended to be a transitional fishery before pike-walleye-perch-whitefish took hold. Yes, I know it was a different intent than Cow, I am simply pointing out that I am well aware of the fertility levels and potential of many of our pothole fisheries. It is sad indeed.

Wasn't it Mr. McNeilly also promoting the stabilization of lake levels of Upper and Lower Kananaskis lakes as well? That those 2 lakes have / had the potential to grow huge trout if TransAlta could just stop messing with the littoral zone? Again, correct me if I am wrong on that account. But that was told to me as well from Jim Stelfox.

Lots of pothole fisheries going to waste. And, to completely circle back to the original point, zero retention on perch ain't solving nothing until someone cites me some studies or evidence of this much ballyhooed "deterrent effect" improving the quality of our stocked fisheries. Otherwise it's just game of regulatory one-upmanship of "oh yeah, you did that, so we'll do this to show you!" My take anyways... 

I'll say no more on this dead horse; topic officially beaten to death!

-Mike

P.S. Anyone know what happened to Kyle McNeilly? After he stopped writing for the AFG, he kinda fell off the face of the earth...

P.P.S. No brainer that trophy stillwater trout fisheries attract alot of attention. 20 boats on Muir mid-week by my count last spring...too bad the province isn't quite dialed into this yet in an "all-in" basis...
 

 

[Dangus]

19 hours ago, FishnChips said:

I fished in BC last year for Rainbows in a lake that had been illegally stocked with Largemouth Bass. For 2018, on that waterbody, the catch and retain limit for Bass was 8 per person. 

Those bloody Bass do not belong in that lake, and this year, 2019, for that same lake, there is no limit on Bass. The province is going to allow natural human predation clear that lake (in theory anyway). At least there is tacit recognition by the province of BC that those fish do not belong. 

I am purely a catch and release type in fresh waters. However, I did kill a Bass and fed it to a beautiful bald eagle perched nearby. 

With bass being a classified as a gamefish in BC, that act falls under the “it is unlawful to...waste the fish you catch” category.  Just sayin take a look over your shoulder before doing that again. 

[FishnChips]

You are quite correct.

 

[Sparkplug]

15 hours ago, DonAndersen said:

Smitty,

Perch are invasive as are trout in lakes where they did not occur naturally.

The question that should be asked, which lake stocking species draws the most Anglers?

All of the lakes with the exception of Burnstick and Swan in the Rocky area were fish free.

When trout were in Cow Lake you couldn’t find a place to park. Last year, opening day with illegally stocked perch and Govt stocked pike, there were a whole two of us fishing. 

Cow Lake raised trout to 15 lbs.

Sad - what a waste of Fishing opportunity. 

 

Don

 

 

So in light of this, I would like to ask (genuine question - I don't know the answer to this - want to see what everyone thinks), what would be involved in undertaking a high-profile "rehab" project on a lake like Cow?

It sounds from the post quoted here that Cow was much more popular as a trout fishery, than it is as perch/pike.  So would it be a stretch to think that the angling community would generally be supportive of trying to restore Cow back to being a trout fishery - just Cow Lake, as a first step (for now)?

Pike/perch crowd can go to wherever the pike/perch are otherwise.

 

[scel]

7 hours ago, Sparkplug said:

 

So in light of this, I would like to ask (genuine question - I don't know the answer to this - want to see what everyone thinks), what would be involved in undertaking a high-profile "rehab" project on a lake like Cow?

It sounds from the post quoted here that Cow was much more popular as a trout fishery, than it is as perch/pike.  So would it be a stretch to think that the angling community would generally be supportive of trying to restore Cow back to being a trout fishery - just Cow Lake, as a first step (for now)?

Pike/perch crowd can go to wherever the pike/perch are otherwise.

 

I would revolt on this concept.  I love Cow Lake.

It may have been more popular as a trout fishery, but it is a fantastic pike fishery, especially through May and June.  In mid June, the topwater pike fishing can be absolutely amazing.  While there may not be historically pike or perch in Cow Lake, they are naturally occurring in many lakes in the area.  Even if it were converted back to a trout fishery, there is nothing preventing the same thing from happening again.

[DonAndersen]

Shel,

Only the flowing waters and Burnstick Lake contained pike. 

Every other lake only had minnow populations. 

These lakes were stocked with invavsives from somewhere.

Cow Lake does contain pike, most have died due to winter kill. Catch rates are lower by far. 

What a trade - from 15 lb. rainbows to 2>4 lb, pike and tiny perch.

To rotenone Cow Lake would cost upwards of a million dollars. To do other lakes in the area may add another million. 

Time for a perch killing tax in fishing licenses? $20/year/angler  would do Phyllis and Tay the following year Struble and Twin. 

Don 

[Birdo]

What if they started stocking other trout like browns, broookies and tigers in the lakes with perch? They are more predacious than rainbows, could be a win win?

[monger]

Once the perch are present, only rotenone will get rid of them. Years of netting in Sundance (Calgary) did nothing to decrease numbers. Now other lakes have been vandalized with perch and some with Prussian carp. There is a very large segment of the population who wants fish meat and have no idea of what stunting is.

[Sparkplug]

5 hours ago, DonAndersen said:

Shel,

Only the flowing waters and Burnstick Lake contained pike. 

Every other lake only had minnow populations. 

These lakes were stocked with invavsives from somewhere.

Cow Lake does contain pike, most have died due to winter kill. Catch rates are lower by far. 

What a trade - from 15 lb. rainbows to 2>4 lb, pike and tiny perch.

To rotenone Cow Lake would cost upwards of a million dollars. To do other lakes in the area may add another million. 

Time for a perch killing tax in fishing licenses? $20/year/angler  would do Phyllis and Tay the following year Struble and Twin. 

Don 

 

"Perch killing tax" - love the idea, though may need a more politically correct name.  If applied to all licenses (which I agree it should be), it would probably have to be in support of a more province-wide program, which in other areas may be towards creating new QF's or other activities to enhance specific local fisheries, rather than to just be about killing perch (not to take away from the importance of doing that, in certain waters).

Some other brainstorm ideas, that could be supported by such a fund (no particular order):

- Fund some legal/regulatory work to take on TransAlta and create more restrictive operating licenses (towards run-of-river operation, with greater lake level stabilization as a key operating limit parameter) for the K-lakes hydro system; maybe get some benefit in terms of stabilizing K River flows?

- Buy out the landowners around Dipping Vat Lake, and restore that to its former status

- Further aeration/development of new QF's, e.g., some of the potholes W of Calgary (maybe multi-species?), e.g., Norman, Frederick?

- Perch-killing/lake rehabs in RMH area

 

[DonAndersen]

22 hours ago, Birdo said:

What if they started stocking other trout like browns, broookies and tigers in the lakes with perch? They are more predacious than rainbows, could be a win win?

Tried at Phylis Lake and was a complete failure. In order for fish to grow large enough to be meat eaters, there has to be food. Perch ate it all.

The big browns in Phyllis get to 10”.

 

Don

[Dangus]

48 minutes ago, DonAndersen said:

Tried at Phylis Lake and was a complete failure. In order for fish to grow large enough to be meat eaters, there has to be food. Perch ate it all.

The big browns in Phyllis get to 10”.

 

Don

Was going to say that.  Guess they could just make these spots brood stock dumps and slowly build it up.  Browns can live well over 10 years. Just need time and to avoid rock shampoo.

[monger]

At Sundance in Calgary there are a few large brown trout. I think they eat the perch. Small browns and brook trout have been stocked recently, but I don't think there is enough food around for them to grow big enough to become effect perch murderers. Hopefully some of the young trout learn to eat juvenile perch early in their careers

[bowbonehead]

2 hours ago, monger said:

At Sundance in Calgary there are a few large brown trout. I think they eat the perch. Small browns and brook trout have been stocked recently, but I don't think there is enough food around for them to grow big enough to become effect perch murderers. Hopefully some of the young trout learn to eat juvenile perch early in their careers

More importantly how was the Bone or Shark chuming on Acklins......