Disturbing Conditions

[fly2]

Trespassing...what a joke these rail companys are. Then I guess it is better to just report any concerns to the Transportation Saftey Board, rather than deal with the other idiots. Then the TSB might be forced to investigate the complaint. Seems the rail industry makes their own rules to suit their shareholders interests, regardless of the impact to our environment or public saftey.

 

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTV...hub=TorontoHome

 

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/stats/rail/2005/prelim_2005.pdf

 

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/stats/rail/2007_jul/R07_2007_e.pdf

[Inconnu]

Apparently the property/ownership was negotiated many decades ago when the RR was the most important form of transportation in Canada and was considered a link that bound the country. Basically the RR wrote its' own ticket when it came to negotiating the parameters of who ran the RR, who owned the land it sat on etc. etc. You may notice that there are Railroad Police here and there. They have the same power as the RCMP if I remember correctly, when it comes to problems arising around RR property.

The trespassing thing was also established to try and keep people off the tracks. There are many people who are killed or suffer near misses every year in North America. Not to totally defend the law but without it everytime someone who was say inebriated walking home on the track was struck and killed they would be open to lawsuits not to mention kids and adults who like to try and race trains across trestles (I can't imagine why I ever....I mean why anyone would ever do this.) etc I can't imagine it would be very easy to see someone in time to stop a few thousand tons of steel.

At anyrate that is how I understood the issue when reading about the RR in Canada though I have no idea why I was doing that at the time.

[ladystrange]

it takes somewhere around 1.6km or a full mile to stop a train going at average speed or there abouts. so no, there would be no way to stop a train in time, unless the conductor has HAWKMAN vision and can see 2 clicks down the track.

 

i guess it is the 'danger' that promotes people to race a train. or shear stupidity.

 

nice to see that they responded and - might do something about it. check up on the location in 3 months and see if the condition has changed for the better. if nothing has been done, pursue transport canada or something along those lines. just in case the phone call was to placate you and give you the warm and fuzzy feeling of doing something right

[Red]

I received this reply from CP Rail today, says their Senior Manager checked it out and said it's okay. I'm sure glad they checked it out though, I just hope he's right. I'm quite impressed by their response so far, they seemed to get on it right away.

 

 

Thank you for writing to Canadian Pacific about our tracks in the Crowsnest area.

 

 

 

As track safety is of primary importance to our company, the senior manager in this region responsible for track inspection and maintenance did undertake an immediate and thorough inspection of the track conditions along this corridor, and determined that the track meets all federal regulations for operation and is safe for use.

 

 

 

For your information, the photos taken reveal some minor, what we refer to as, rail head spalling and head checking, which is confined to the rail surface and does not penetrate the core of the rail. The rail " gap " shown in the one photo is located at a rail joint (the joint bars and bolts are visible in the photo) . Although the rail ends have some spalling which reveals some surface steel , it is not in a state that would make it unsafe for operations. It is a condition that is reviewed as part of our extensive track maintenance and inspection protocols that will be adjusted in our regular maintenance program.

 

 

 

Across our system, there are twice - weekly track inspections by our track maintenance personnel that include visual inspections of rail, tie conditions, and fastenings. In addition , and more specifically, the Crowsnest Subdivision undergoes at minimum two rail joint inspections per year, a Sperry test (rail flaw detection) 4 - 5 times per year (5 scheduled for 2007), along with bi-annual rail grinding. The Track Evaluation Car, which evaluates, among other parameters, the cross tie and fastening integrity, is also run 3 - 4 times per year, most recently at the end of October, 2007. These inspection practices meet or exceed all federally regulated standards.

 

CP is intensely focused on safety and accident prevention in all aspects of our operations. The safe transportation of goods across the rail network, and the safety of the public and employees are CP’s top priorities. We value the input of interested citizens, and again thank you for contacting us regarding this matter.

 

Should you have any further concerns, please contact CP at the Community Connect desk.

 

Kind regards,

 

Christine Brown

 

Community Relations Advisor

Canadian Pacific Railway

1-800-766-7912

Community_Connect@cpr.ca

[fisher26]

UPDATE:

Recieved this response, I'll see what you think...

 

 

Thank you for writing to Canadian Pacific about our tracks in the Crowsnest area.

 

As track safety is of primary importance to our company, the senior manager in this region responsible for track inspection and maintenance did undertake an immediate and thorough inspection of the track conditions along this corridor, and determined that the track meets all federal regulations for operation and is safe for use.

 

For your information, the photos taken reveal some minor, what we refer to as, rail head spalling and head checking, which is confined to the rail surface and does not penetrate the core of the rail. The rail " gap " shown in the one photo is located at a rail joint (the joint bars and bolts are visible in the photo) . Although the rail ends have some spalling which reveals some surface steel , it is not in a state that would make it unsafe for operations. It is a condition that is reviewed as part of our extensive track maintenance and inspection protocols that will be adjusted in our regular maintenance program.

 

Across our system, there are twice - weekly track inspections by our track maintenance personnel that include visual inspections of rail, tie conditions, and fastenings. In addition , and more specifically, the Crowsnest Subdivision undergoes at minimum two rail joint inspections per year, a Sperry test (rail flaw detection) 4 - 5 times per year (5 scheduled for 2007), along with bi-annual rail grinding. The Track Evaluation Car, which evaluates, among other parameters, the cross tie and fastening integrity, is also run 3 - 4 times per year, most recently at the end of October, 2007. These inspection practices meet or exceed all federally regulated standards.

CP is intensely focused on safety and accident prevention in all aspects of our operations. The safe transportation of goods across the rail network, and the safety of the public and employees are CP’s top priorities. We value the input of interested citizens, and again thank you for contacting us regarding this matter.

 

Should you have any further concerns, please contact CP at the Community Connect desk.

 

 

Could be BS but at least they pretend to care.

 

Thanks again for the numerous concerned responses. I'd love to see similar topics where people band together to deal with fisheries/environmental concerns!

[toolman]

Good to see they have taken the time to respond so respectfully. Looks like some folks in the rail business are staying on top of their responsibilities.

[reevesr1]

Could be BS but at least they pretend to care.

 

Thanks again for the numerous concerned responses. I'd love to see similar topics where people band together to deal with fisheries/environmental concerns!

I doubt it is bs. They cannot afford the risk of a failure after a member of the public brought the issue to their attention.

 

Even though it does not appear to be a problem, it looks very good on you for pointing it out to them. Very nice job.

[Highlander]

Thing is it is like this Across the whole country, just to much track and not enough people to prperly inspect it. when CP went private they let go all the Track walkers that check on this stuff. so over the last 30yrs the conditions have deteriorated to this point. Back in Kingston there was a spot I complained about that was missing abount 5 ties in a row, and where there was a tie you could pull the spike out with almost no pressure, and this was a main line through a city and still from what I have heard it is still bad. Personally I think it is amazing that we have had a large disaster yet.

 

just my opinion

Teck

 

FYI the CPR has always been a private company. You are thinking about CN, which is a completely different company and unrelated to CP (except that they both operate railroads). The majority of the derailments over the past couple of years have been CN's.

[Harps]

Thanks for clarifying Highlander.

 

I know some of the folks that work for CPR (contact for Hook and Hackle Calgary). They seem to do good and care (they have a biologist addressing stream issues in BC... none that I know of in Alberta) and have decent standard practices for working around water. Like all companies/orginizations things do get overlooked and budgets are an issue.

 

It is good this issue was brought to their attention in a respectful and reasonable manner and excellent that they responded quick in a manner that shows consideration for the public and the environment.

 

Cheers,

[Gary]

Interesting thread. As I read the last few posts I can't help but be reminded of the Peanut's cartoon. You guys remember the ones. Lucy tees a football for Charlie Brown. Charlie runs, kicks. Lucy pulls the ball away. Charlie falls on his head. Course Charlie always lets himself be convinced that this time Lucy won't pull the ball away but we know what always happens to poor ol Charlie Brown.

[darthwader]

Below is the email reply I received from CP regarding this and they want to know the location so they can assess it. Have you passed the info along Fisher26?

Thank you for your email. If possible, could you please forward details on the location of the track in question, and I will ask our Track Maintenance Supervisor to assess for repair.

 

For your reference, CP is part of a heavily regulated industry, and our safety program consists of comprehensive maintenance and inspection protocols for our entire track system and trains. In addition to a visual and computerized track inspection system and strict maintenance procedures for all locomotives and rail cars, CP has an electronic trackside detection system in place, which monitors track conditions and train performance at all times. We have the most modern safety equipment available today, including: hot bearing and hot wheel detectors, wheel impact load detectors, locomotive event recorders (black boxes) and mobile rail-flaw detection equipment with ultrasonic and magnetic resonance scanning technology. CP track maintenance employees regularly perform visual or computerized track inspections throughout our system. Train crews also are trained to report any concerns they may have with track conditions. Additional track inspections are carried out as needed during extremes of heat or cold, or extraordinary environmental conditions such as high water or excessive rainfall. Engineering field personnel conduct walking inspections to check the integrity of all track joint bars.

 

This is an interesting thread and I am glad it was brought up. Kudo's to you guys for finding something and pursuing it.

 

After reading their response, it is clear that they have a very hi-tech sysyetm with all sorts of neat computerized stuff to detect all sorts of intersting things.

 

Why then do they keep running into each other??

 

Anyway, very interesting find and many props for giving it the attention you have.

[Gary]

Well..here we go again. Must be spring cause another train has left the track in Crowsnest Pass. Sometime late yesterday afternoon (Feb. 12) or early yesterday evening two engines left the track out close to Crowsnest Lake. Course probably just an anomaly cause I hear its CN that is the unsafe rail company. Can't remember exactly where I heard that. Oh right it was mentioned in a presentation to Crowsnest Pass Council by the CPR.

[fisher26]

Gary I'm a little confused, are you saying a train derailed? If so, what did it spill (coal, anti-freeze, oil?) and has it got into the Crowsnest Lake or river?

[Gary]

The derailment was a very minor one. 2 engines left the track. No other cars involved and no spills. No immediate cause for alarm. Only real damage was to the CPR track and of course the 16 or 20 hours of lost traffic. Nothing has been contaminated. The fact that once again a train derailed here in the Pass is a cause for concern. Not only for the people that live here but for everyone that is concerned about the health of the Crowsnest River and the impact on water consumers downstream.

 

The current rail system, designed for 80 car trains, can not support the traffic it is currently seeing. Couple that with an eroded safety and inspection system does not bode well for people living close to train routes nor for environmentally sensitive areas. Don't be fooled by the response to concerns showcased in this thread. CPR's (and CN's) track record in the past few years speaks for itself.

[regdunlop]

Gary,

I fished the Crow today and noticed what looked like some track maintenance going on. Two engines and about 6 odd looking railcars going really slow on the tracks in both directions. This was the only rail traffic of the day as far as I could tell. Do you know if this is in response to the minor derail from last week?

[newflyer]

I have an ear fairly high up the chain at CP (in the board of directors) and my name carries some weight because of it. If there are track problems along CP lines I would be pleased to pass the concerns on to the company on behalf of all of us.

 

Brian.

[Gary]

I couldnt say Reg...but I would guess they are going to watch the tracks through the Pass a tad closer...I am sure they really dont want any serious occurances.