fisher26 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Hey guys: It's been a long time since I've posted, but right now I have a question that a few of you might be able to answer. So I'm a catch and release fisherman, like most of us fly fisherman. On occasion, however, I'll go out of my way to catch and keep whitefish. Anyways, I've done some winter fishing on the Crowsnest and I've come across literally zero whitefish, only large rainbows. Usually, that'd be a good thing, but both times I've gone out, I've gone precisely for the purpose of catching some whitefish for consumption. Anyways, if anyone has insight on winter fishing, or the winter fishing the Crow and whitefish, I'd appreciate it. I'm nymphing with fine tippet, lots of shot, and size 14 to 16 nymphs. Do they congregate in the upper reaches of the river or something? What's the deal here? Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRock Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 They are sitting in faster currents. Not the slow slack deep wintering holes that you'd find rainbows during winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisher26 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Thanks DRock, I'm going to give that a try and post if I have success. Btw, is there any reason why whitefish are in faster current in the winter? I'd think they'd have the same metabolism as trout. That being said, a lot of the skills that I depend on to catch fish can't really be explained all that well anyways, lol.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scel Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 While they are both salmonids, whitefish prefer cooler and more oxygenated water than most trout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harps Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The mountain whitefish population in the Crowsnest is really low and in trouble.They are hard to find now and I'll bet the regs are changed to protect them soon... at least I hope so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The Old Man drainage RMW is in trouble period. Almost every tributary's fall run has been minimal for yrs. While the population had been declining already in the 80's the OM dam pretty much wrote the end of the big spawning runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanpaul Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Interesting point. My fishing group went on an annual basis to the Crow every late April starting some 25 years ago. When i check back on my diary, we caught more whitefish than trout at the beginning of that time period. As the years passed, our whitefish total continued to diminish while our trout catch remained relatively the same (small decline but not as significant as that of the whitefish). I thought that the size limit ban on the rocky mountain whitefish would improve or at least stabilize the population but it appears not to have. That the reason being offered is due to the Oldman Dam is interesting but considering most of our fishing during this time period was above Lundbreck Falls...not sure if that is the entire reason. I do know we catch less whitefish now than before, just not sure why? I also remember that most were caught in the slower, larger pools. You could actually see them swimming around in the gin clear water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 No idea if they're native above Lundbreck Falls or any of the larger falls in the system but there used to be huge runs iirc from below Lethbridge all the way to Racehorse and the Livingstone. Don't see that anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanpaul Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Good point Taco. An interesting sidebar to this is an observation I have made on another southern Alberta stream. Prior to the installation of an electricity generating turbine below the dam, the resident rocky mountain whitefish population was prolific and there were no trout present. We caught many whitefish (great in the smoker) both in the summer and winter. Once the turbine was installed, thus creating essentially a spring creek below the dam, the trout population suddenly improved but I have noticed that the whitefish population is again, significantly less. Perhaps a healthy trout population comes at somewhat of a detriment to the native rocky mountain whitefish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Taco is bang on regarding the Whites. Bull trout are suffering the same fate in lots of streams. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisher26 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Forgive me if I have a hard time believing some of this. Back in 2009 we were fishing the Crow and catching Rockies hand over fist—we probably caught 40 between the two of us and most of them were big. Actually, I've never really caught so many large fish from one of our little streams. At the very least I don't think Rockies are in trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if a bubble has gone through the population structure, but there's no reason for the Whitefish population to suddenly disappear. What is there now some toxic chemical being introduced to our streams? Or is it because Southern Alberta's population has nearly doubled in 15 years? Personally, if the RMW population has declined, I think it's just a natural fluctuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Forgive me if I have a hard time believing some of this. Back in 2009 we were fishing the Crow and catching Rockies hand over fist—we probably caught 40 between the two of us and most of them were big. Actually, I've never really caught so many large fish from one of our little streams. At the very least I don't think Rockies are in trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if a bubble has gone through the population structure, but there's no reason for the Whitefish population to suddenly disappear. What is there now some toxic chemical being introduced to our streams? Or is it because Southern Alberta's population has nearly doubled in 15 years? Personally, if the RMW population has declined, I think it's just a natural fluctuation. Ever caught one hundred, two hundred out of a single 100 metre run? I have, more than once. Have I contributed to the decline? No doubt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisher26 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Well, I don't know if I'd have the patients to stand in a single run and catch two hundred fish—sour grapes on my behalf, perhaps due to lack of skill. Personally, as far as the decline of any species I think angling pressure plays a part, but it's far from the entire story. Anyways thank you for the feedback… My outlook on Rockies has changed to some extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserN Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I used to catch the odd whitefish in the Crow, but I have not caught one in years there. They have really crashed in the City section of the Bow river because of a 5 fish limit. I hope they get the protection they need as they are a decent sportfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I've yet to catch a single mythical RMW in almost 3years and 300+/- angling days on Bow and a cpl dozen other ES streams since moving to AB .....I'll likely photograph a samsquanch before I ever catch a bottom dweller whitey,being as I rarely ever nymph? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harps Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 That the reason being offered is due to the Oldman Dam is interesting but considering most of our fishing during this time period was above Lundbreck Falls...not sure if that is the entire reason. I do know we catch less whitefish now than before, just not sure why? There have been changes to habitat and access in the upper reaches of the Crow, including the installation to many crossings, and the intensive addition of roads and trails in the headwaters. MNWH are very sensitive to sediment in streams, especially since they spawn in the autumn after a summer of instream activity has deposited fine materials on areas that they spawn on. Because they don't clean the substrate like trout do, their eggs will suffer higher mortality than any other species spawning at that time in those conditions. On occasion you find an area where they are schooled up, especially in the fall and winter. At those times you can catch 100's, but that doesn't say anything about the entire population- they might be the only MNWH left in the river! Recent surveys (E-fishing and Snorkel) indicate a low population. Without MNWH, we loose a critical part of the aquatic ecology... it's like taking away deer and forcing wolves to look elsewhere for prey. Their diminished populations will be reflected in cutthroat, rainbow, bull trout and other fish species populations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I believe they migrate in our rivers more than we realize and take up areas which we may not even fish. I certainly catch more in the fall as they start stag for the spawn. Have caught RMWF on dries many times in fast chop much like Greyling. I believe the numbers generally are down although I did witness a large contingent in a stream along the trunk road that was impressive. Possibly there is now less spawning habitat but that is more just a personal observation than science. The bow has suffer a decline in the last few years and the silt release combined with last year's flood won't help populations of any of our resident fish. Unlike the lake whitefish which can grow large prolific populations the RMWF is a more delicate species with much slower growth abet a much larger spawner than trout. I agree that they do tend to be more active feeders in the winter than Trout. I have always enjoyed catching them as at times when the trout don't seem cooperative whitefish will step in to fill the void. Unfortunately they are much maligned and I've witnessed fishermen throwing these guys up on the bank instead of doing proper catch and release with a disdainful "its just a sucker". I do find them to be more delicate than trout (more like Greyling) and really try not to lift them out of the water for release. I think they are like the canary in the coal mine. An excellent indicator of water health. Just my 2 cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanpaul Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I just read an article by Bob Scammell where he indicates that Lake Newell will be catch and release for pike starting this April due to the collapsed fishery. He feels the demise of the pike in Newell is primarily due to the 'newer' regulations whereby fishermen now can generally only keep one pike...and that is a large one. Since most large pike are females and are the primary egg layers, what we are doing is the equivalent of 'culling the best of the heard'!! If you apply this theory to RMWF, perhaps our new regulations where one can only take plus 30cm fish is accomplishing the same negative thing? This would help explain my findings of less RMWF above Lundbreck Falls and less RMWF in that southern Alberta river immediately below the dam. Lots of neat ideas in this thread and I totally agree with Harps in that RMWF are definitely worth the effort to keep around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monger Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 My buddy has been snorkeling down the Bow for years in the Bowness region. In the past he says the bottom was covered with Whitefish. Starting about 10 years ago the numbers started to diminish and are now a fraction of what they used to be. Hard to pinpoint reasons, but the numbers are crashing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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