Nymphing For Steelhead

[monger]

Thanks for your thoughts Dutchie. I can see the attraction of catching them the "right" way. I've caught lots of fish in my day and numbers are becoming less important as well. I guess there is just a desire to touch one....I'm pretty sure I can hold off on the egg for quite a while. Satisfaction of doing things the hard way is usually a pretty good bonus.

I may come and borrow a book from you for some winter reading. Thanks for the offer

 

I hope my pointer doesn't find out about all this fall fish talk...she has me booked for pheasant hunting all next week.

 

Brian....I are a fish whore as well....sometimes it's just a blast to catch so many that it makes you giggle like a little kid

 

Cheers, Rob

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

well put Mr. D

[dryfly]

dutchie

 

This will go down in FFC history as one of the best posts ever. Thank you!

 

First, you have a great way of expressing feeling and passion. Nice. This was not just any old yada yada yada post. Good stuff.

 

And secondly, as you know three of us OFs [Al, Gord and I] are leaving this Saturday for the Bulkley. (BC steel virgins.) So I learned a few things from your great post...practical stuff beyond the passion. Been trying to absorb as much as possible...and mental osmosis and old age are ... well, it gets harder to learn stuff when yer an old dog ...

 

Here is part of my steelhead fly collection ... (adc has the Intruders.)

 

And yeah ... we tied a few eggs. FIRST I gotta hang a steelhead. THEN I'll become pure.

 

Hope to see you up there.

 

Thanks again...great post!

 

Regards

 

Clive

[dutchie]

ha ha clive

i will stop in and see you and Al '' adc'' for sure , i know where your staying , just finishing my packing now , waiting for '' angryjohn '' to fly back from texas and then were hitting the road

 

you do have my cell number for texting me , looking forward to seeing you both , i will tell you that you won't see em sipping on top like those big browns and rainbows i showed you and Al on our float trip , that would be just to easy ,

 

your first fish will be one you'll always remember clive , so handle it with care and savour the moment , they still take my breath away , everyone of them , i tailed the biggest fish ever '' for me '' , this year for my bud on the first trip over , Ty got a fresh buck that was well over 40 inches , he was so tuckered out at the end he was on his knee's , just before i grab the tail and held him , wasn't my fish but hell it took my breath away at the beauty of such a sweet fish , the raw power in my hands , made me shake all over , Ty looked like he was going to cry from the sight of him and holding such a fish , it really was something to be a part of , i'd post a picture but last time some guys got all carried away and it was a *hit show ,

 

don't want to talk about the big hen that gave us a really good licking about a hour before that , and left us standing with our mouths wide open and tears running down our face , had my hands on her 3 times and i couldn't hold that fish leave that story for another day , maybe at your cabin when we have a sip or scotch

 

Rob

stop by anytime for some good books on fishing for steelhead and tactics , also have some great books on steelhead flies , and no egg patterns in it , ha ha , this winter again i will have a steelhead party at the house , was a good time last winter, watch some good video's , all is welcome and great to meet new people and you'll be shocked at just who swings the odd egg every now and then , i'll leave it at that ,

 

 

i seen this saying the other day , made me laugh , was on another forum , i think it's kinda true with about how addicting this steelhead fishing can be , here it is below

 

''I've heard that fishing for steelhead is as addictive as crack.........I think I could kick crack.''

[Ricinus]

Nicely said and a great read Dutchie. I had Mike Brooks tie me some Syd Glasso style flies to try, unfortunately they will have to wait til next year.

[dutchie]

Nicely said and a great read Dutchie. I had Mike Brooks tie me some Syd Glasso style flies to try, unfortunately they will have to wait til next year.

 

 

mike brooks , those will be dandy , lots of guys use Syd's flies , so so many nice flys for steelhead ,

 

i'm not a great fly tier , don't have it in me to take my time enough on these steelhead flies , i always seem to be in a rush , when i do get in the mood , it takes me over a hour to do a nice intruder , so i don't tie to sell ,or i'd be piss poor with nothing ,

 

yet i buy lots of flys from everyone , i just like opening my boxes and seeing nice steelhead flys , classic ones , dee's , speys and even nice intruders i don't mind buying from guys at all , to me thats the cheepest part about steelhead fishing is the fly , the gas , hotel, tags, food , boat, rods, reels, lines , sinktips ,

 

and in truth it comes all down to the fly , so i like to buy stuff that i know will work , plus when i meet guys on the river we always like to do a show and tell and even trade or give the odd fly away ,

 

i tell this story to everyone , and it's the truth so help me god , i cringed and hummed and thought how crazy i was when i paid $15 for one fly, i think 4 years ago it was , yep $15 big bucks for one fly , then i gave him a $10 for another one , now this fly was a intruder style , done by Todd Scharf himself while i waited and watched him tie it , it took even him , a long time as he's pretty picky about it being well made , and with the best material , and what a better way for someone to learn from a master , is to stand right beside him and watch him tie it , so it was a win win for me in my mind , $15 bucks for a fly and a hour lesson i thought , first i just had to talk myself into spending $15 for one fly , after that it was easy , ha ha

 

i knew inside me that this fly would catch me fish , i had no doubts in my mind whats so ever , well let me tell you that at the end of the life of that fly , we was glueing it in the hotel room that night and trying to get another day out of it ,

 

why , well that fly caught me 11 big fish all on the swing with some of the hardest pulls i'v had yet in just 3 days , best was a 39 inch buck , before it was finished and i had to throw it out ,

 

crazy when you think of it , 11 great steelhead for $15 bucks , thats like a dollar and a bit per fish

 

so now i just look at it as only having the best fly's i can get and use , as you don't get allot of chances at these steelhead , so for my mind set , i like to have the very best flies i can get / buy / trade or do myself ,

 

you have a whole year to get some good fly's , you don't need allot , try to get some from those who fish the rivers you plan on fishing as they will be in the know what works the best

[Ricinus]

I'm trying to find something that's effective as bunny leeches etc, but is not like casting a wet gym sock. Have a great trip regardless of how you fish.

 

Mike

[jdangler]

I have been reading all these post, & thinking how fortunate all of you are to be able to go after Steelhead, it's on my bucket list, but job & funds keep me from it. I have been accumulating the equipment, the rods, & flies to be ready. For the record I swing flies on the Bow a lot & even though I catch more fish while nymphing I absolutely love the casting, the swinging, & the Tug & because of this I want or need to feel the same with a Steelhead. 1000 casts, who cares if I can get that Tug, that 1 big electrical type shocking Tug!

[dryfly]

Thanks again. Hope our flies work ½ as well as yer $15 flies.

 

Now we are all nice nice and dutchie has waxed poetic....below is from my book...was writing about swinging flies:

 

Over fifty years ago Roderick Haig Brown wrote about this technique for steelhead in his treasure of a book,

A River Never Sleeps.

 

I started down the pool happily, rolling the fly out into the tumbled water, mending the line upstream to give it a chance to sink well down . . . The fly came over the loaded place, and I held it there in quiet water at full stretch of the line...knowing how it hung, how it looked, how the water plucked at it and gave it life. I moved my left hand up to recover line, and the pull came . . .

 

Cool stuff. RHB could write well.

 

BTW ... Read the last paragraph in that book some day ...

 

Clive

[troutlover]

Didn't read all the posts but it is an interesting subject. At certain times of year nymphing will always outproduce any other method in certain areas.

Someone who has never caught a steelhead might wonder why not nymph if you can catch more fish. But the natural progression for steelheaders is realizing it is not about the numbers of fish. ITS ALL ABOUT GETTING THE HOT FISH. And I like to think that I might fish a method that will get me more of those HOT fish. And that is with either a dry when temperature permits or a wet with a light sink tip. I want fish that moves to my fly, more aggressive and typically fresher. Having a fish hammer my swung wet is a much more appealing than seeing an indicator go down. Or watching a steelhead boil,roll several times on several casts (changing flies to entice him) to eventually hammer it. No comparison.

Also nymphing eggs is usually best higher up in the tribs where there are other salmon spawning. I also try not be that high up in the system - older not as HOT fish.

Yes you can target fresher fish.

If you continue to fish for steelhead you WILL eventually understand what I am talking about.

 

Good luck. In this case ignorance is an excuse.

 

 

 

HOW ABOUT NYMPHING FOR ATLANTICS IN SCOTLAND?

 

 

I know NOTHING about steelhead fishing and i just wasn't understanding the debate and the BIG DEAL about how you catch one matters BUT the above post made THE MOST sense out of anything i read in this whole thread thank you PKK for helping me understand why swinging pays. I cant wait to get out in a couple years im saving my pennies and reading all i can get my hands on.

P.S-Dutchie your post was great aswell thankyou.

[Mykiss]

to Righty, the thread was asking a question IF YOU CUOLD NYMPH FOR SH, i replied with a yes and you jumped on the brown bear band wagon and started slamming anyone who says yes. you dont care if people bait fish for them but when some one does somehting different with a fly rod it is TOTALLY WRONG!!! what if i was nymphing a egg sucking stone fly or a sand shrinp? would this be better...

 

but if you want to act like JJones11 (he turned into a good guy) cerca last year then go for.

 

 

Glad to see Dutchie understands and gets it.. maybe others will going forward...and I NEVER EVER...... EVER said I think bait is alright to fish for wild steel.... Don't twist my words.....Gear and bait are way differnent.

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

ok so bait aside would it be non laughable if some one were to nymph a sandshrimp with a single hander for SH or is it just the nymphing with a spey that is the problem?

 

im just trying to figure this ting out now

[dutchie]

Over fifty years ago Roderick Haig Brown wrote about this technique for steelhead in his treasure of a book, A River Never Sleeps.

 

I started down the pool happily, rolling the fly out into the tumbled water, mending the line upstream to give it a chance to sink well down . . . The fly came over the loaded place, and I held it there in quiet water at full stretch of the line...knowing how it hung, how it looked, how the water plucked at it and gave it life. I moved my left hand up to recover line, and the pull came . .

 

Clive ,

someday i must get that book and read it , that is so like it happens , your flies will work just fine , i'll see ya anyway and i'll give you one that i know first hand that works , can't wait to see Al's intruders , as it's your first time Clive , if all else fails , then you go swing the egg , ha ha , just like the game monopoly , you get a free pass and don't have to go to jail , but i'm pretty sure you'll do just fine swinging for them , i'd like to see the look on your face when that big hard tugs hits ya

 

 

 

 

 

 

Glad to see Dutchie understands and gets it.. maybe others will going forward...and I NEVER EVER...... EVER said I think bait is alright to fish for wild steel.... Don't twist my words.....Gear and bait are way differnent.

 

i would have to agree 100% Rightyeegs , as i'm sure everyone would also agree , the bait is another big NO NO , my reason is i believe the fish take em way to deep and more fish do die from it , it is a full catch and release as they all wild , only a few places left in the world like it , catching a hatchery fish is another story , not saying i'm against using live bait on some fish , like worms for brookies as we keep em to eat , just not for these steelhead ,

 

[reevesr1]

Interesting discussion. The passion with which people defend their positions make this seem more like a religious discussion than a debate about fishing methods. To carry the analogy to it's conclusion, that would make the Steelhead (must capitalize the S now) the Deity of all Freshwater Fish, the Spey Rod Swingers (The Church of the Glorious Arc?) the fundamentalists, the gear guys the agnostics, the bait guys the atheists and the rest of us just trying to find someplace that we can practice our faith in a way that doesn't utterly piss off the other groups. I haven't figured out who the Muslim's are (PETA or Anti fishing groups?), but I do know that Dutchie is the Prodigal Son.

 

Obviously a bit of an exaggeration. I've never fished for Steelhead. I would not be surprised if I never do. Too many species that are ahead of it on my bucket list, and the truth is I don't have a lot of desire to fish a spey rod and don't get that big of a thrill out of streamer fishing. I've had many big fish "yank the rod out of my hands" in my life. If I'm going to spend a week chasing something super hard to get (and my wife won't give me a lot of chances to do that), I'd rather it be on a nice warm flat somewhere where I can drink Margarita's if it gets blown out. That said, I know that the Steelhead engenders a lot of passion among people who fish for it. I know that by listening to people I have a lot of respect for speak of it in near spiritual tones (back to the religious analogy). What I don't understand is how some people who can feel such passion over catching this fish using the method of their choice are able to project such disdain toward people who's method doesn't exactly line up with theirs. I mean, this was a knock down drag out over swinging streamers vs. nymph fishing! Sorta like the Baptists and the Episcopalians duking it out over an interpretation of Mathew or John's explanation of Jesus in the garden before the soldiers came. I mean, in both cases, the end result was a cross. Or in the case of the Steelhead, he ended up caught on a fly rod and made someone very happy. Why argue about it?

 

PS: I almost made it a political analogy. I had Republicans, Democrats, Tea Partiers, 99%ers, an Obama, Palin and Bush. Then I remembered I lived in Canada and if I used Canadian politics no one would want to be Harper. So I chose religion.

[Hawgstoppah]

exactly

[Guest Sundancefisher]

After reading the thread I came to my own conclusions.

 

I still don't get the negative attacks on people that want to fish and don't use selected methods deemed by some to be must haves. I have to think someone can get carried away and say...you have to use original bamboo, use no synthetics in the materials in the fly, fish in a way that only mimics the bugs natural behavior, not use synthetic wader material, walk or ride a horse to get there...etc. This whole fanatical elitist mentality of doing it one way only and calling your way the purist way or else the name calling begins...I just don't get it. Sure be proud of mastering a method or catching a fish using a specific method or going after a specific size fish...but talking down or making others out in your own mind to be lesser fishermen...that is just odd.

[dutchie]

420flyfishin

you can fish a nymph or egg with a single hand rod or a 2 handed spey rod , some will laugh at you , but who cares, you do your own thing , the point that a few guys were trying to get across , was it's really easy to catch em that way , and the better way in some opinions is to swing for them , kinda like having a piece of apple pie , or have that same piece of apple pie heated with a scoop of ice cream on top , ones just a little better then the other

 

Rickr

come on tex , you should give it a try ,

 

those that sent emails wanting to see the best fish in the week we was fishing in the dirty water this year , well after chatting with Ty and getting the go ahead from him as it's his ugly mug shot and i didn't know if he was maybe wanted by the law ,before i posted these pictures , ha ha

 

, here it is , we got this fish in ''the no name river'' he took a big black and blue intruder on the swing , this is the fish that left ty on his knees all out of breath , tuckered him in the fight

 

he was bigger then that female that left us with tears after such a fight and at one point we were up on a big log running down it try to stop her , as she had her mind set on going down river through a big set of rapids , i had my hands on her 3 times and i was just not strong enough to hold her , she ended up sliding down a good trench and the line cut clean off on the rocks , i would say she was the biggest female i have seen yet ,

 

 

check out the size of head on this big wild steelhead , also want to add that Ty was using a 4 inch hardy wide drum perfect and had to do lots of palming it to hold this big buck from running away on us , great fish , great fight, and whats even better , no egg , took him on the swing so this fished moved to the fly , he was even better in real life , pictures don't do him justice , now maybe some can see why we think it's better to fish for fresher fish and take them on the swing , this fish even made me shake after i tailed him

 

 

 

 

 

[monger]

That doesn't look/sound like fun...I'm never doing it if it makes you all weak in the knees

[tyler909]

hey dutch those are some great posts i had a great time . thanks for the trip and being part of the fun nothing like a swung fly for bc steel . hope you and john bang some bigges ill twist some intruders for ya. black & blue tried & true

good luck

[PGK]

.

[Conor]

Didn't the swung presentation make its way from the east coast salmon rivers, where it is a regulation to ensure fish are fair hooked? In other words, that they move to eat the fly rather than being flossed or foul hooked?

 

Are fish hooked nymphing or centre pinning often foul hooked or flossed? I have no idea, just curious.

 

 

[dutchie]

Didn't the swung presentation make its way from the east coast salmon rivers, where it is a regulation to ensure fish are fair hooked? In other words, that they move to eat the fly rather than being flossed or foul hooked?

 

Are fish hooked nymphing or centre pinning often foul hooked or flossed? I have no idea, just curious.

 

 

conor

i 'm not sure on where it started on the swung presentaion , i would say england myself if i was to guess , and yes that's the whole ideal about it , fool the fish and make him move to your fly , the hotter fish as some call it , there could be 10 atlantic salmon or steelhead in a area , maybe just one will move to take your fly , in my opinion steelhead are much much more easy to fool or have them chase your fly then atlantic salmon , atlantic salmon can be fussy SOB , most times if they get pissed they will attack the fly , i don't think to eat as they don't eat after they come into the river system , till after the spawn and the winter is over , then they do but we call them ''blacks '' ok to catch and in truth easy again as they hungry and will eat on there way to the ocean again , just nothing for the fight like they are when they first come into the rivers

 

steelhead , will eat , the hens will eat salmon eggs for sure , i can't say if they eat much after they come into the rivers, someone will know and hopefully answer this question , i did hear from a good friend who got a steelhead a few days ago with a good size rainbow in it's mouth

 

 

 

i don't think nymphing for steelhead is a cause for any concern about foul hooking them , the ones i got when swinging the egg were all hooked clean , not sure about centerpining for them as i have never done that , but i don't think so myself ,

 

flossing is a dirty trick they do when fish stacked in heavy , mostly on west coast salmon and in alaska they do it big time , to me thats not even really fishing , more like snagging , if i'm correct i have never heard it before being done on steelhead ,

 

now nymphing or centerpining for steelhead with bait , like roe is hard on the fish as they take it in so deep and some fish die from it , when your swinging flies across in front of the fish , they chase and follow , then grab and turn which hooks them in the corner of the mouth most times , i only once hooked a fish while swinging a fly in the down and across for steelhead not in the corner of it's mouth , it was a hen and i stuck her in the bottom and inside of her mouth , don't ask me how it happen or why , but thats where she was hooked

[Mykiss]

Ha!!!.... it's rig ups like this that are a joke. Just do your self a favor get a drift rod...Its much easier to cast that hardwear all day long!!!! What do you use on the gammy??? Roe..Prawn....?????? Stick to hatchery fisheries like the vedder or the Mat.

 

Agreed I was harsh with calling the rig up a joke... If 420 or anyone wants to throw split-shot, bobbers, spinners...Knock yourself out... I'm pointing out that if you choose to fish that way...Save your arm and rotator cuff the agony and get a drift-rod and center pin. But figure that out for yourself. Also adding that in my 15 years of fishing for steel from the lower mainland up to the Skeena.... I can count on 1 hand how many people I have seen nymphing for steelhead....Hence why I made the reference to feeling out of place with a bobber on a steelhead river....But again #$%^ it I have another hand with 5 open digits.... keep the dream alive!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And to say it's not about catching, WHAT???? sure it is! You mean to say I am going to go over to BC, pay hundreds of dollars of hotel money, a $60 steelhead stamp, a $60 yearly license, and over $200 in a week for day licenses, plus food, snacks, coffee and everythinhg else, and NOT WANT OR EXPECT FISH? I drop a thousand bucks easy for a week over there.... so hell no. I'm there for fish.... now having said that, if they are going to take a skating fly I'm all over that. If they want a swung fly, let's do it. If I am standing in a river full of eggs and can SEE them eating the eggs and ignoring my swung flies, by hell my egg pattern is going on.

 

And do I treat each one with love & respect when caught, like heck I do. There's nothing better than a steelhead

 

now back to your regularily scheduled programming.

 

It's post's like this that absolutely gets my blood boiling.... People who fish count to determine if the trip was a success or not. People who feel like they have to get there money's worth for CW's, steelhead stamp and out of province license by fish numbers. Thats not at all what the experiance is about.... If your concerned about the cost go south of the border and pound hatchey runs... BC and most everyone else in it won't miss you...

 

 

 

On a side note....That fish is seriously disgusting

[Jayhad]

Also adding that in my 15 years of fishing for steel from the lower mainland up to the Skeena and everywhere inbetween I can count on 1 hand how many people I have seen nymphing for steelhead....Hence why I made the reference to feeling out of place with a bobber on a steelhead river....But again #$%^ it I have another hand with 5 open digits.... keep the dream alive!!!

 

 

On a side note....That fish is seriously disgusting

Rightyeegs, we've never met so I have no idea how old you are but do you think this is a generational thing? You stated you have been fishing steal for 15 years. 15 years ago in BC there wasn't much nymphing rivers under indicators beeing done and the time with out the proliferation (sp?) of the internets I would think a lot less of exposure to the practice. Now people see nymphing under indicators as a standard procedure for trout, so perhaps thats where the influx of nymphing come from. Thoughts

 

I was fishing the Chilliwack last winter and I saw 3 dudes nymphing eggs, but i understand you if you started fishing steal 15 years ago there was a lot more tradition and respect.

 

I did notice a few west coast guide's facebook pics last april fishing hatchery brats on the chilliwack with pegged beads and they were killing them........... but they were all fishing pins and filling the freezer

[Mykiss]

Rightyeegs, we've never met so I have no idea how old you are but do you think this is a generational thing? You stated you have been fishing steal for 15 years. 15 years ago in BC there wasn't much nymphing rivers under indicators beeing done and the time with out the proliferation (sp?) of the internets I would think a lot less of exposure to the practice. Now people see nymphing under indicators as a standard procedure for trout, so perhaps thats where the influx of nymphing come from. Thoughts

 

I was fishing the Chilliwack last winter and I saw 3 dudes nymphing eggs, but i understand you if you started fishing steal 15 years ago there was a lot more tradition and respect.

 

I did notice a few west coast guide's facebook pics last april fishing hatchery brats on the chilliwack with pegged beads and they were killing them........... but they were all fishing pins and filling the freezer

 

 

I don't think its a generation thing...Unless being in your 30's is the cut off.... I think you may have hit on something with the transition from nymphing for trout to steelhead. Unfortunatley some of the greedy trout attitude has also made the transition over.