Srd To Close Stauffer Creek

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

For those that didn't pay attention like me, SRD's Vance Buchwald is proposing a closure of main stem tributaries to the Red Deer October 15>May 14.

There goes Stauffer, South Raven Fallen Timber, Little Red and on and on,

Obviously a well thought out proposal.

 

Express your outrage!!!

 

to Vance.Buchwald@gov.ab.ca

 

If you wish to read and respond to the whole questionnaire, give me a shout donandersen[dot]bamboorods.ca and I'll send you a copy of the PDF.

 

 

PS: for all those Calgary guys who generally don't give a crap - browns/whitefish are spawning in the Bow and Crow drainages. Are those places next?

 

 

 

Don

[jayjjones11]

So you want to kill all the otters that are killing the brown trout, yet you don't want to protect their spawning gravel from being stepped on by the ever increasing number of anglers?

 

Who would not want to protect the future of the rivers? Close the Bow from 22x or Burnsmead Bridge upstream in the winter...let the fish have a break! Open it back up in April

[DonAndersen]

jayjj11,

 

Just so that you understand the problem. Walleye have been protected in the Red Deer system for a number of years thereby exploding their population. Walleye are predators, the browns and whitefish are the prey.

So in order to maintain balance, apparently SRD blames the fishermen for taking fish from the river and wants to reduce the impact of legal fishermen to "0". In the 20+ years I've fished the Red Deer River, I've yet to see my first dead fish dangling from a fisherman's hand.

 

And the reason for the closure to protect the brown trout and whitefish spawning makes sense if places like Stauffer Creek had any whitefish. Well, I guess they do, maybe one or two near the S. Raven Junction. Brown trout spawning areas are impacted a lot more by migration problems caused by beaver.

 

 

You cannot manage any habitat for a single species. You must consider all impacts and manage them accordingly. To blame fishermen for lousy SRD management is just plain stupid.

 

And yep - there's Otters in the Red Deer Too!! Like all predators, they should be controlled to balance them with their prey.

 

jayjj11 - you kinda remind me a a young biologist I meet below the Oldman dam who was gushing about catching all the big bull trout below the dam and carrying them above. I asked him how many whitefish were also transferred. He just couldn't get the fact that predators do well when they have prey. Ever wonder why farmers don't graze cows on summerfallow. They'd starve to death.

 

 

 

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don

 

[Jayhad]

I know nothing about walleye, but from what friends have told me the walleye in the Red Deer system have become stunted and skinny. wouldn't opening a slot size for walleye balance out the equation?

 

[Aguabonita]

I fish the Red Deer for walleye, trout and pike a lot. There is definately no problem with the walleye population, in fact I'd say they could use a good thinning. The idea of closing tribs to protect trout and whitefish seems ultra-stupid to someone who is catching a hell of a lot of walleye. When I'm catch and release fishing pointlessly limiting my angling opportunities really pisses me off. Going to get a copy of the proposal from Andersen and see what the hell is going on.

 

Dean

[DaveJensen]

Don, your spreading of misinformation is staggering.

 

This is a PP2 issue. Dam downstream, no other waters above are to be affected. Please, everyone, understand that this is not going to have anything to do with any tribs above the Dickson Dam. Vance is the PP2 bio only and has no dealing with ES2 waters. http://www.mywildalberta.com/Events/Events...dar.aspx?id=793

 

So that everyone understands, I've literally been the only person to attend every Red Deer Region Fisheries Round Table meetings in pursuit of any kind of protection for the RDR w/f and browns. At these public meetings, 2 other trout people have attended a mtg once. I've tried to get TUC involved in process for the river, however, nobody bothers to show for these mtgs. Through the mtgs the past 8 years, I've finally managed to get Vance to go so far as to try to change the regs to protect the fall spawning season. My goal since day #1 has been to get the RDR Fisheries Management Plan opened for review as it is nearly 20 years old and many facets have changed and need attention. Am I frustrated that it has taken so long to only get this far and that literally nobody else has bothered to pursue this? You bet!

 

In the current proposed regulation change - the idea is simply to afford spawning protection for fall spawners while gov process evolves. Like it or not, we have to deal with gov process. This regulation move is a short term check while Vance begins procedure on the RDR Fisheries Mgt Plan. That process will likely see 3 or 4 years pass before the resulting mgt plan results from process & includes whatever regulation changes come of that process. Would you rather allow the w/f pops decline for 4 more years (min) while process occurs or ensure they are protected so we have some semblance of a population when the FMP comes to be? The fall closure is for the benefit of w/f and browns, and piggy backs onto the spring closure to protect the warm water spp. While we lose 2 months of fishing, we protect a prey spp that is the life blood of the walleye (native spp).

 

There are otters in the area, however, in 1000+ floats I have never seen one. I am sure there are a couple around.

 

For clarification, a 24" brown is as much a top level predator as a 24" walleye. It also utilizes a wider variety of food sources based on availability.

 

The issue of opening the river to walleye retention is valid and one that I raised the past few years at the Red Deer Region Fisheries Round Table meetings. I raised the point out of consideration for other fish users in the river as the walleye pop appears quite healthy. However, this goes back to my 10+ year goal to have the RDR Fisheries Mgt Plan reopened. The idea in the short term is to get fall spawners some protection. Whitefish are one of the top prey spp in the river, and given their populations have fallen way off the map, they need protection. Lower the limit and give them some spawning protection in the short term until the Dept can get process going on the RDR FMP. Otherwise we simply allow continued deterioration of the w/f stocks. Most everyone understands predator - prey relationships. As I've mentioned several times previously, to have the RDR FMP opened for discussion is imperative, as it will provide framework for the river's mgt. Otherwise, we end up in a situation like this, where someone pipes up with no clue about what has been discussed at public meetings, few people bother to be involved, and the resource's mgt get little attention due to higher priority items and a lacking budget.

 

In everyone’s feedback to the current regulation review, I ask that you request of Vance that the RDR Fisheries Management Plan be reviewed ASAP so we can get going with proper management of the resource.

 

Cheers

[Jayhad]

Dave,

thank you for some clarity

[Aguabonita]

I read the survey, and it does request input about applying the regs to all red deer tribs and is pretty easy to take out of context, thanks for clarifying. The crappiest thing about the survey is that there is no way I can make an informed decision from it, other than through my experience which tells me there's not a lot of whitefish, same amount of browns and a whole whack of walleye. Is there a backgrounder or something that describes any data that has been collected? Guess I'm going to have to dig a little. In the meantime I'll fill out the survey and let em' know what I think.

 

Dean

 

P.S. I think fall/winter (oct 15 - march) C&R is more appropriate and don't disagree with a reduced whitefish limit during the regular season. Egg trampling and C&R mort is not likely an issue, just not that much pressure on the red. I don't think there's a lot of bang for the buck in the extended closure and would like to keep an open water opportunity in the winter that's close to home.

[wingshooter]

There is no shortage of suckers in the Red and seems to me that the goldeye and sauger and walleye are doing great. All eat dry flies and take streamers so why do we need browns? I guess they are not as sexy as a brown trout safari sipping size 20's. Everybody has their vested interest. What the real problem is is those jerks in jet boats and punk kids drinking beer and dumping their empties in the river as evidence this past weekend below the Trenville Park. The bottom is littered with dead raft floaty things, beer bottles, cans and safeway bags. Now that is how we should have SRD controlling the masses not a few good ol boys taking a few rockies for the smoker. Apparently Vance is retiring so go bark up another tree or go pick garbage if you love our river.

[Jayhad]

What the real problem is is those jerks in jet boats

Don't you run a jet.... doh :Hi jack:

[acct421]

Walleye eat dries? Never knew that.

[PGK]

.

[birchy]

PS: for all those Calgary guys who generally don't give a crap - browns/whitefish are spawning in the Bow and Crow drainages. Are those places next?

 

So that everyone understands, I've literally been the only person to attend every Red Deer Region Fisheries Round Table meetings in pursuit of any kind of protection for the RDR w/f and browns. At these public meetings, 2 other trout people have attended a mtg once. I've tried to get TUC involved in process for the river, however, nobody bothers to show for these mtgs.

 

Guilty of the very thing you and Neil always bash Calgary boys for... Priceless.

[duanec]

holy carp. read this and few other recent posts.

is it january already?

 

just sayin'

 

carry on

[wingshooter]

Don't you run a jet.... doh :Hi jack:

 

Yep sure do but don't throw my empty cans in the river and use anglers for pilons. You also won't be seeing me ripping up and down over the redds because it is a nice warm day and I need to burn some gas or dragging my anchor through redds like I saw some fly anglers do in a jon boat in years past. Common sense is not that common anymore................

[reevesr1]

holy carp. read this and few other recent posts.

is it january already?

 

just sayin'

 

carry on

 

And the fishing is still damn good. Just wait till it sucks!

 

[Weedy1]

I heard a rumor they may open Stauffer up to ice fishing. Can anyone confirm this?

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

Here is the exact wording from the Gov't Survey.

 

20. Do you agree with Sustainable Resource Development’s proposal to apply the Red Deer

River regulations to all main stem tributaries?

a) Strongly Agree Agree c) Disagree d) Strongly Disagree e) No Opinion f) Don’t Know

 

Looks like it means what it says. ALL TRIBUTARIES. Little Red, Fallen Timber, S. Raven, Stauffer Creek, and on and on.

 

There is a whole bunch of stuff going on that does make one wonder.

 

1] Why a Regional Biologist would start this 1 month before he retires?

2] Why the survey didn't ID are area as Buchwalds only?

3] Why other Fisheries Technicians in the Rocky Office made comments about closing all waters where fish may spawn?

4] Why are fishermen blamed for the whitefish/brown disappearance when there is no evidence that this happens? I've never seen a dead fish in anglers hands in the 25 years I've fished the Red Deer in the fall/winter.

 

There is no question that browns and whites are in trouble but are anglers the issue or are there other many larger forces @ work?

 

Blame anglers, it's easy - doesn't require any expenditure of effort or $'s. And the best part, some people get sucked in.

 

Don

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dekkard2019]

 

What is the problem here? I am confused. We miss out on fishing for 2 weeks so brown trout and whitefish can spawn. Seems fair to me. I fish the Lil Red a lot and if it is closed 2 weeks earlier, so be it. The fish are number one!!

[FraserN]

In the NW stretch of the Bow river, within the city of Calgary, the fishing for trout improved substantially since regulations were imposed to protect them during the spawning time. The stretch is currently closed in April and May, as well as October and November. The number of white fish has dropped dramatically in the past decade, because the limit is still 5 over 30cm. If the harvest of whitefish was curtailed, their numbers would rebound. I don't see why similar regulations to protect spawning brown trout on the Red deer river and tributaries wouldn't be beneficial, also.

[halcyonsancta]

The fish don't interfere with my mating habits - why should I interfere with theirs?

[reevesr1]

I think if you spoke to my wife she would say that the fish DO interfere with my mating habits.

[Bigtoad]

I think if you spoke to my wife she would say that the fish DO interfere with my mating habits.

Mine too...

 

With all this talk of walleye in the Red Deer, I thought I'd throw this guy up that I caught last week below the dam on a streamer while trying to catch a brown. It was the second one of the night, but quite a bit larger than the first. Both fought like little girls... I guess that's why I like catching browns in the RD more than anything else. If it was a brown that size, it would have taken me well into my backing and that would have been after I chased it downstream a few hundred yards. Still a nice surprise though. Any tug on the rod is a welcome one

 

 

And you can't tell me after looking at this that it doesn't slicker up it's fair share of mini-browns. Ever wonder why you don't catch small browns in the RD? I'm sure the goldeye do a number on the fry as well. Never have been able to figure out why they close the RD for so long in the spring and then keep it open all fall... seems counter-intuitive to me but what do I know.

 

Cheers.

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

Got a email from Buchwald. Closure of tribs. is only below the dam.

 

Looks like my paranoia got the better of me.

 

The present river closure starts Feb 28 and ends May 20 or about 11 weeks. The new proposal for to increase the closure from Oct 15>May 14 or 28 weeks.

 

Curiously, SRD's proposal doesn't limit bait but allows maggots which seems to reinforce the targeting of whitefish which they are trying to protect. Go figure!

 

Buchwald says " ASRD will doing a public review of the existing Red Deer River management plan for the section of river from the Dickson Dam to the Tolman Bridge. As part of this review the management of walleye will be looked and the potential for limited harvest will be examined. Brown trout numbers below the dam will always be limited, since suitable habitat is also limited. The 2005 flood had a negative effect on at least two years of recruitment (2004 and 2005).

 

 

Don

 

 

 

[mrmomar]

@Don Anderson,

 

Can you please provide a link to the survey you mentioned?

 

Thanks!