One Less Grizz

[reevesr1]

Jason & Rick,

 

I'd be for a total moratorium on bullies... One thing I'll add, though, is one doesn't technically "bait" a hook for bully trout, but some do... Also, can't really H & R a bear now can you?!

 

P

I think you may be missing our point Pete. I'm not talking about stopping all fishing for bullies in bullie water, I'm talking about stopping all fishing period in bullie water. That would be the equivalent of stopping black bear hunting in grizzly country to prevent the possibility of what happened the the grizz those boys shot. (I'm not advocating this, just using it as an example)

 

And of course you can't h and r a bear. But my point, again, is that we as fishermen accidentally kill fish fish in the legal pursuit of our passion. Just like those boys with that bear. The bear just causes more outrage because its a big furry majestic mammal (and oh so much easier to anthropomorphize), not a fish with a brain the size of my fingernail.

 

Anyway, no reason to beat this to death. I just caution people to be careful with this topic (myself included) as the ethics/morality in this is fuzzy for all us sportsmen.

[Billwminnow]

That is crazy how you can be minding your business and along comes a bear you have so many instints going through youir head

 

[kentan]

Or they could just be full of BS and were really Grizzly hunting. We will never know.

 

Also I hope they dont get to keep the Grizzly, it should go with the COs to prevent such events.

 

 

I thought the same thing, who knows what these kids were doing out there. We only know what they tell us.

[Tungsten]

Like Nick already said you can not hunt grizzlies in AB, they are protected.In BC you can.Lots of problem black bears in this province,we just don't see it around here.

 

 

[Giovanne]

oh the hypocricy runs thick...

[Nick0Danger]

They will not be able to keep the bear, just like if you shoot a deer or moose out of season, or hit it with your car.

[SanJuanWorm]

I don't see the argument here. People choose to hunt. Are perfectly legal to do so. A grizzly charges these men while they are hunting. Were it me, that bear be dead too. Then i'd leave the bush, change my shorts, and have one awesome story to tell.

[jayjjones11]

Then take a photo with the bear while trying to hold back your smirks?

 

Sorry, but that doesn't add up. They got their photo for the mantle, a story in the paper. sounds like motive

 

There is no way to tell which story is truth, but I find it hard to believe they have a very close brush with death and they get a picture with it like proud hunters with their great kill.

 

It's more pathetic that this is news

[SanJuanWorm]

Then take a photo with the bear while trying to hold back your smirks?

 

Sorry, but that doesn't add up. They got their photo for the mantle, a story in the paper. sounds like motive

 

There is no way to tell which story is truth, but I find it hard to believe they have a very close brush with death and they get a picture with it like proud hunters with their great kill.

 

It's more pathetic that this is news

You're making your judgement based on a smirk in a photo? Holy smokes man. Give your head a rattle. If that's the case i'd have been crucified long ago.

 

We'll never know the truth. Just the story. If you had a gun in your hand and a bear was charging you what do you think you'd do? I'd be empyting my magazine.

[ironfly]

Have you ever seen a charging bear? A perfect head shot? Never mind steely nerves, that kid's got a horseshoe where the sun don't shine.

[SanJuanWorm]

Have you ever seen a charging bear? A perfect head shot? Never mind steely nerves, that kid's got a horseshoe where the sun don't shine.

 

I wouldn't miss.

[CROOKSIE]

Sounds fishy to me as well. Obviously, they did what anyone would do with a gun in your hand, at that time. However, i was a hunter when i was younger, and my gun was always loaded unless I was in a vehicle. Seems a little suspect to be out in bear country with and unloaded gun?? This is all just speculation, and we may never know the whole truth. Some things just don't add up.

[Nick0Danger]

Im sure i said this already im sure the truth was in there shorts.

[Golfman09]

When people can separate what they feel is morally right from what the legalities of the law state than this conversation will end. Until that point we are in very muddy water with no help for an absolute answer.

 

That being said I feel its our responsibility to manage these resources so they are here for our childrens, childrens, children.......and so on.

[SanJuanWorm]

Agreed. There is no winning the argument in this thread.

[Jayhad]

I would have responded to this thread if they had been hunting from a jet boat......

[ironfly]

I wouldn't miss.

Is that just bravado? 'Cause I'm one of the best shots in the country (I have a Golden Bullet from the Forces that says so), and I'm not so sure.

[petti]

Golden Bullet? i spent 4 years with 3PPCLI ive never heard of such a thing...

[CopperJonny]

Obviously it is Bravado , as a former Wrangler/guide in Northern BC for moose , stone sheep and Grizz . One shot to the head of any charging bear/anything on the run especially through a scope ! At 10 ft ! Is nothing less than a miracle! point and pull the trigger ! Especially when it takes a multi bore arsenal to drop a pissed of Grizz including .338 , .300 , 30-06 , AND 45-70 darn near point blank !! A hunt with a properly placed shot is when you normally may get a one shot deal . IF you happen to place that projectile in a vital area , it usually tucks tail and runs.......(listen for death moan) IF these fellas are being honest , I would say they used up a lot of lives in doing so !! that is unless they had a good rest and waited for a good clean shot on an innocent bear ! Lucky it penetrated the skull in the first place , which does seem to me ...maybe , just maybe they are telling the truth ! close range=more penetration , especially on that skull! Despite civillian caliber , a head shot is NOT ideal on a Grizzly.....but we propably will never know , you can bet they have been screened and interrogated heavily and seperately ( i hope so) by Fish and Wildlife!!

If they are telling the truth , they had a guardian angel looking over them . And so would ANYONE in the same position. Then again , I wasn't a member of that shooting , another party employed by the same outfitter was , actually the outfitter himself and others , and local folklore around Teslin is ....That the bears eat moose up there that eat water vegetation loaded with an organic natural "steroid" hence , Grizz on roids!

[SanJuanWorm]

Is that just bravado? 'Cause I'm one of the best shots in the country (I have a Golden Bullet from the Forces that says so), and I'm not so sure.

 

I was being facetious. Although i'm never really one for jokes.

[alan2]

Statistically, the vast majority of grizzly bear charges are bluff charges. No actual contact. (Dr Stephen Herrero, author and grizzly expert)

 

It was noted by the late Andy Russell, guide/hunter-turned-photographer, that grizzlies were much more aggressive towards him and his party when they were carrying guns and hunting than when they were simply filming grizzlies, as he did later in his career. Was it his body language? Difference in scent? He didn't know the reason, but was distinctly aware of the difference in bear behaviour regarding armed vs unarmed humans.

 

The vast majority of bear attacks in North America since records have been kept have been directed at 1 or 2 persons, extremely rarely on a group of 3 or more (apparently bears can count!). And those very rare attacks involving more than 2 persons are only recent, as in the last 15-20 years.

 

So, had it been three hikers, as many bear encounters often are, odds are the encounter would have been nothing more than a terrifying story of a near miss bluff charge, the grizzly would still be alive and no photo in a newspaper. (and no debate here!)

 

The presence of ravens circling is often an indication of a possible animal kill near by. I wonder if those guys knew that, or would have been observant enough to put 2 and 2 together if they saw them. Maybe when carrying a gun, little details like that go unnoticed. Over the years I travelled hundreds of kms on foot in the mtns, never armed either, and that is one of many things you keep in mind to avoid surprising a bear. Making noise so the bear is aware of your presence is another one. I bet they weren't doing that, since they were hunting. Also, my experiences showed me that a group in the backwoods collectively isn't as alert as much as an individual would be. The social aspect distracts from that; it's a different state of mind being with a group.

 

My point is this--for the reasons above, if they had not been hunting it would likely be a non-event. Instead, the bear is dead and someone, rightly or wrongly, is made out to be a hero by having shot it in the nick of time. In truth, only if we knew for a fact that the griz would actually have attacked them would there heroism be involved.

 

Me, I like grizzlies. Thins out the ranks whether I'm hiking or fishing. I've even thought of setting up my own sign "Aggressive bear in area" like they do in Kananaskis Country, except that in Banff Park they found it often attracted European tourists. (fact)

 

My two cents. Yes, I know that's about what it is worth!

[CopperJonny]

Yes , personally I like them too ! And the species really does need all the help they can get .( I chose not to guide for them , although was hired for the job to take bowhunters out for moose , after a kill and a fresh pile of guts were around the hunters often wanted a grizz tag to hunt over bait. Another process I don't agree with)

Rule of thumb up in the bush is , your rifle carries up to four rounds in the mag .( any more and you are propably carrying too small of a caliber to be effective anyhow and NEVER need a shell in the chamber until necessary) This rifle is for protection ONLY! ( as a guide)...when feeling threatened of an attack and most definately as stated ALMOST ALWAYS merely a charge ! So you have to be aware of that! The rule of thumb is/was ...50m 1st shot in the ground....30m 2nd shot in the ground , 20m and less well ....time to decide if you are more concerned for his species or your own hide at that moment , and they cover ground rapidly....you can save one shot to save your life or wait and see by shooting the 3rd in front of him ( kind of depends on how confident you are in your abilities and that the action won't happen to mysteriously jam at the wrong time , unless you have a semi) If you are a hunter and have a shell chambered , you have an extra warning shot at your disposal . I prefer bolts , and yeah ....jams DO happen at the wrong time , via nerves and fumbling fingers of fear.

If we don't "get" the rules of nature ie: a gathering of ravens etc . We propably shouldnt be out of our element in the first place . IMO.

I have never harmed a Grizz and I hope I never have too . Yet if I am ever in that position , and as long as I follow the "rules of thumb" I won't hesitate .

Also , another old saying is " If they are charging with both front paws hitting the ground at the same time , 99% its a bluff charge . If one paw is in front of the other , be ready ..your in for a fight . ( not really sure if that would be possible to see in the moment) only hindsight . And of course that theory is unproven .

Also , IMO if one won't enter the bush w/out a firearm , they don't belong there anyway .

[timhergott]

But it's okay to stab a fish with a hook, pull it through the water, hold it up breathless for a picture and send it on its way to be caught again? A little hypocritical? There is no shortage of black bears, hence anyone can shoot 2 on a general tag without a draw, the same can't be said about bull trout or cutties.

 

PS I am not a bearhunter, but see no problem with someone excerising their right to legally hunt black bears.

 

Are you seriously attempting to compare bear hunting to catch and release fishing?

[ironfly]

Golden Bullet? i spent 4 years with 3PPCLI ive never heard of such a thing...

This was almost 20 years ago, so maybe they don't do it anymore. It was awarded for 100 targets at 99%.

[petti]

Junior, sounds like you are a pretty good shot!