Fishscape Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 I am looking for a new 3 or 4 wt rod in about the 7' 6" to 8' range with a more "traditional" medium action. Basically, a small stream rod with great presentation capabilities for fishing technical streams with small dry flies. I have a 9', 5 wt. Sage VP that is my all-purpose rod, but it's too long and not delicate enough for small stream applications. I have used a 4 wt, 8' signature series TFO rod for several years, and it does the job, but I get all kinds of vibration in the rod (probably due to my crappy casting mechanics) and I'm looking for something better. Smoother and with great accuracy in the 30 foot range. I know you got to get out and try different rods to see which rod fits your casting style best, but I am looking for suggestions on what other people like as a starting point. One topic is length: do I go with 7' 6" or shorter or 8'? Also weight: is 3 ideal, or maybe 2 or 4 wt.? Price is not so much a concern for me if the rod is good, but I don't buy a brand because of the brand or because other people like it. Think: perfect rod for the willow thickets on Stauffer Creek when the PMDs are hatching and fishing BWOs on the Oldman or Livingstone in late September. I was thinking: - Sage TXL-F series - St. Croix Legend Ultra - Loomis Whisper Creek GLS - Loop Opti Creek - Amundsun Midge - T&T Whisper-Lite Any suggestions? Bonus if you can pick one up in Calgary. Thanks, Paul Quote
InvermereAngler Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Ummm I think you missed the best one...... how about a Winston Boron IIT. Have you seen their videos on the small creeks. Quote
Din Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Sage ZXL seems to fit what you are looking for as well. I have a 8' and 7'6" 4 wt that I use for the situations you want to. Quote
reevesr1 Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 I have an Amundson Midge that I really like (actually, it is my son's, but I steal it). It's such a personal thing though. As many have said on these threads before, go cast some of them and see what you like. You can hardly go wrong! Quote
ÜberFly Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 I'd go 7'6" 3 wt. Especially if you already have a 8' 4 wt. The midge is "Alright", but HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY (and IMHO is more of a 4 wt, despite what anyone tells you) I have a Redington Classic Trout and it is nice and light, comes with a lifetime warrantee and is $160! The others you list I am not familiar with so cannot comment. But see who has them in stock and give them a chuck. Another option is custom as you get better components for around the same cost as a stock rod. P - Amundsun Midge Quote
Bigtoad Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 I've got a TFO 4wt finesse that I absolutely love and doesn't break the bank. If you're wanting it for Stauffer, I wouldn't want to get something too expensive... you'll spend all your time worried that you're going to get a scratch on your precious new rod crawling on your hands and knees through the willows. It's a place that not only dreams are crushed, scratched, and broken, but rods are as well. I think all of those scratches and nicks just add character but you might feel differently. Besides, does it take a $500+ rod to cast 20 ft? Or is a $500+ rod going to get your fly hung up in the tops of the willows less often? I doubt it. Not dissing the more expensive rods or those that use them but if it's mostly going to be bushwacking on Stauffer, it might be better to leave the pretty rods at home to keep looking pretty. Just something to think about... Cheers. Quote
Current Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Ummm I think you missed the best one...... how about a Winston Boron IIT. Have you seen their videos on the small creeks. If you're thinking of something higher end with a more traditional action. I would second something from Winston. Good luck with the search! Current Quote
bloom Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Take a look at them all...but from what you've said so far, make sure you look at the "Midge". Go check it out at FishTales Quote
darrinhurst Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 I would also recommend a 3wt. I have a 7'6" TFO signature series four peice that I use for the smaller mountain streams as well. I can cast a mile with that thing if I need to cast to the far bank on the Liv or even smaller tight casts that require more precision. An awesome stick that I am happy to have spent the $200 on. My two cents. Quote
Roast Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 One topic is length: do I go with 7' 6" or shorter or 8'? Also weight: is 3 ideal, or maybe 2 or 4 wt.? Slight highjack, however I think that it applies to the original posters questions. I am interested in this as well. How does a 7'6" rod compare to an 8'6" rod. Why choose a shorter rod? Does it greatly affect the action? Is it a portability thing? I have never cast a rod that is that short, and want to know reasons why people choose short rods? For a river like stauffer/ ram/ highwood, what would be the ideal length an why? I know opinions will vary, however I am interested to hear everyones reasoning:) Quote
bigbowtrout Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 I have the Midge. It's a great 3wt but not much of a 4wt. I also have a T&T 3wt 7 1/2' and it's my go to rod The Midge is a great rod for the price. Having the etra tip is also nice even if it is a 4wt. You could also over line a 3wt real with 4wt line. Just go test em out!!!!!! and don't listen to Uber Quote
Harps Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Depending on how and where you fish longer can be better than shorter. Longer rods are better for reaching out over the water and dapping the fly. Also better if you are crawling through a meadow to cast streamside. Personally I've really liked my entry level Sage Launch... Great colour (blending in is key with tricky small stream fish), great medium action (the progressive flex is a perfect fit with how I cast), and perfect length for the type of streams I fish with it (Yes Stauffer, but more the thick beaverdam stuff in the foothills). Its a 3wt and I went up to a 8'6" because I like the extra length to reach out above the stream. If there's no room to cast a 9', there's probably no room to cast a 7'. If I was to redo it, I'd stick with Sage or pony up for one of Don's Bamboo rods!! Then again there is great fiberglass out there that looks very interesting! In regards to weight, 3 is good. Less just limits your ability to throw on a hopper and cast through the wind on that perfect beaver pond, plus, really with most small stream fish, the fun isn't in the fight, it's in getting to the fish and tricking it. Less than 3 and you are just buying because of an advert. I've used 4-6wts on small streams with tiny fish and had a blast too. Quote
DaveJensen Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Not to continue the hijack... I've never understood the reasoning behind a shorter rod for in tight situations either. I use 9' rods for Stauffer, hell-a-creeks everywhere. I've never been on a creek where a 9' rod won't work - at worst change the approach and positioning, and simply bow & arrow cast or dap in tight with the longer rod. A bow & arrow dap cast will be good within 20' of the fish, which is more than plenty if your approach is good. I don't know of any stream in Alberta that has a willow/alder canopy that you can cast under. The upper Mataura or mid Taieri in NZ might allow for side arm casting under the willow canopy, but I've honestly found tower and reach casts the most advantageous on Stauffer-like streams and a 9 footer allows for a lot of maneuvering. 9', 4wt, mid flex Helios for me. Formerly 8'8" G series Scott in 4wt, mid to full flex. The wt, length, flex point, and energy to flex are all equally important in developing a feel that works for you. Once you factor in your casting stroke, line speed in different situations, etc, you'll gain more appreciation of exactly what you are really after. And yes, dt vs wf lines do make a difference, as well as who makes the line (materials used, taper dynamics, suppleness of line, etc) as these will be quite different and do different things for you in various situations. Quote
birchy Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 I love my Scott A2 7'6" 3 weight. But to echo what others have said.. I CHOSE that one after casting a few side by side at Fish Tales. Quote
ÜberFly Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Why is that Chris?! I have an opinion (which he was looking for) to which I gave... Nothing wrong with that?! The Midge is a good "entry level" rod, but I stand by my previous statement when I say it's a brick, plain and simple! I spent a couple of hours casting different 3 & 4 wts (with my own 3 & 4 wt reels & lines) at the Expo a few years ago and this was my conclusion... P and don't listen to Uber Quote
tgo Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 Not to continue the hijack... I've never understood the reasoning behind a shorter rod for in tight situations either. I use 9' rods for Stauffer, hell-a-creeks everywhere. I've never been on a creek where a 9' rod won't work - at worst change the approach and positioning, and simply bow & arrow cast or dap in tight with the longer rod. A bow & arrow dap cast will be good within 20' of the fish, which is more than plenty if your approach is good. I don't know of any stream in Alberta that has a willow/alder canopy that you can cast under. The upper Mataura or mid Taieri in NZ might allow for side arm casting under the willow canopy, but I've honestly found tower and reach casts the most advantageous on Stauffer-like streams and a 9 footer allows for a lot of maneuvering. 9', 4wt, mid flex Helios for me. Formerly 8'8" G series Scott in 4wt, mid to full flex. The wt, length, flex point, and energy to flex are all equally important in developing a feel that works for you. Once you factor in your casting stroke, line speed in different situations, etc, you'll gain more appreciation of exactly what you are really after. And yes, dt vs wf lines do make a difference, as well as who makes the line (materials used, taper dynamics, suppleness of line, etc) as these will be quite different and do different things for you in various situations. I agree, in fact I like the longer rod to get the line OVER the tress and bushes along shore during my back cast. Quote
Fishscape Posted April 16, 2011 Author Posted April 16, 2011 Bamboo Regards Mike Well, not quite that much. Spend, I mean. I'd like to try one sometime though. Paul Quote
Fishscape Posted April 16, 2011 Author Posted April 16, 2011 Sage ZXL seems to fit what you are looking for as well. I have a 8' and 7'6" 4 wt that I use for the situations you want to. I have been looking at the TXL and ZXL. Any idea how they compare? I don't have the opportunity to try both at this time. Paul Quote
Din Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 I have been looking at the TXL and ZXL. Any idea how they compare? I don't have the opportunity to try both at this time. Paul I haven't tried the new TXL's, but the older ones I found too soft for me. Have a few friends who hate my ZXL's but love their TXL's though... Quote
brownsbask Posted April 17, 2011 Posted April 17, 2011 Wholeheartedly recommend the St Croix Legend Ultra, 7'9" 3 wt. If you can find one to take out and cast, do it. That was all the convincing I needed. St. Croix calls it fast action, but I would say it is closer to medium. Just my opinion though. Quote
Conor Posted April 17, 2011 Posted April 17, 2011 Well, not quite that much. Spend, I mean. I'd like to try one sometime though. Paul You can get bamboo rods from reputable modern makers for less then the latest brand name tech rods. Just look for used rods. You could go for modern high end glass or hand spun graphite, too. Check out Steffen Bros. or McFarland. http://www.mcfarlandrods.com/dsp_the_rods.php http://www.steffenbrothersflyrods.com/index.htm I saw a post on the 'Trading Post' here a couple days ago from a guy looking to trade a Steffen glass rod. Or, if your feeling spendy, you could get a Burky... http://cfbflyrods.com/rods/trout/ Or go crazy and get a Morgan... http://www.troutrods.com/ Plenty of options out there, other than the big names. Quote
Eelpout Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 You can get bamboo rods from reputable modern makers for less then the latest brand name tech rods. Just look for used rods. You could go for modern high end glass or hand spun graphite, too. Check out Steffen Bros. or McFarland. http://www.mcfarlandrods.com/dsp_the_rods.php http://www.steffenbrothersflyrods.com/index.htm . Beat me to it. I am also going to say FH Paddock who has two series of glass: brown (slower) and lemon (faster). I also have a 8' 5wt Hardy Glass (almost new) that I'd consider unloading. Not a 3 or 4, but more versitile Quote
Fishscape Posted April 18, 2011 Author Posted April 18, 2011 I've never fished with glass either. I guess I would need to try it to see how it feels. Thanks for people's tips. Quote
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