Streamwatch Why?

[canadagrey]

First off, I fully SUPPORT THE STREAMWATCH PROGRAM.

:derby racer:

My question is WHY shoud WE PAY or solicit for Partners to in some way fill the void of the Conservation Officers in the province?

Should not the Alberta Government be responsible for enforcement? I think so.

The Streamwatch Funds could be better spent on Conservation and Rehabilitation.

Your Thoughts????

 

[Swede]

I think they should raise the cost of licenses to around 100$ for a year and then have a license you can buy that lasts 1 month for about 25$ for people that don't like to fish all year long There always saying they don't have the funds so raise the cost to fish. Ya some people might not buy one at a higher price but I think most of us would.

[DonAndersen]

BRB,

 

After more than 30 years the Alberta Fish and Game taught us that beating one's head on the wall doesn't do anything for either your head or the wall. AF&G has pestered the Govt for 30 years to hire more. Nothing was done.

The only way to get more enforcement on the ground is to do a Public/Private partnership.

So Streamwatch was born.

Now there are 3 and sometime upwards of 5 more enforcement folks out there in the Eastern Slopes. Depending on Govt keeping the enforcement slots filled, this may increase enforcement by upwards of 25%.

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don

 

[Wolfie]

DonAndersen...

 

..is not so typical that such a RICH province never has the $$$$ to return to it's land what it has reaped from it..that's all I've ever heard from a 'corporate province'.....NO $$$$$...what a load of crap..someone or some department is getting more of the $$$$ that the ppl of this province has paid for the fishing licenses then what this government proposed in the first place... and seeing just 3 bodies working the entire area is quite a joke...the worst part is that only one person working south of Red River...that is even more hilarious..and you say that you have been 'fighting' with the government for more than 30 years to do something about it...please my sides are splitting with laughter...ever thought of changing the idiots who were put in power...but it is much easier to turn to the public and ask them to fork over more $$$$ to enlist more bodies to police what this province has raped in the first place..or should it be known that the corporations did the raping, either way the end result is that the ppl in here whine a lot but if something is passed before them to shut them up..they are all for it..the almighty Albertan buck.......Wolfie

[DaveJensen]

Wolfie, as the person who started the project, along with my friend Barry Mitchell about 8 years ago or so now, I wonder if you have looked objectively at the situation. You can ask why only for so long before you get to the point of exasperation - at which time you either quit wondering/worrying/lobbying, or take another approach. Your ideological approach was represented well for many years, 30 as Don says, until we gave up on it.

In so many years of fishing, none of us were getting checked, nobody was seeing officers away from the most common accesses on the popular rivers. The idea Barry & I had was to make sure there was adequate signage to educate the angler as to the regulations, to protect the fishery and take away the angler excuse of not knowing them if/when checked. We then proceeded to hire officers through fundraising (asking o/g & forestry cos, and the public). It started off as 1 officer that had a sat phone to call the RAP line, working the BSR and RR exclusively. This person was a TUC employee and attempted further education by performing fish id tests and further verbal education to the watershed. Few people realize that the average angler is about 25% efficient on fish id tests. Streamwatch officers are essentially saving us from ourselves. From there, John Day in Nordegg and Kevin Stalker (head of enf for ES) grabbed on to the concept, realizing their budgets were never going to increase, and used the program to their advantage as well. Since then, it has expanded slightly, though nowhere near what we had hoped. While I ceased being involved due to a lack of clear direction, lack of guiding principles and direction (which Barry called me up last year to tell me to tell him I told him so - which I couldn't do to him), it is a good project, one that is finally coming round into what it should be. I personally still have issue with how funds are directed, the level of gov direction in the program, and what % of officer time is used for its original purpose, but it is far better to have that program in existence than to simply sit back on a forum and complain, or beat our collective heads against a wall trying to lobby a gov that simply has never shown interest. You know the definition of insanity.

Over the wkd, at the guide licensing mtg, Ken Ambrock came out and told the group point blank that if it wasn't for the Streamwatch program this past year, there likely would have been little to no enforcement occurring on our ES waters last summer. Sobering.

Streamwatch is a great project that needs our continued support. I'd really encourage you to not spend your time questioning the why, rather, please take the time and spend it on approaching your company for a donation to the auction, or get them to write a donation chq. It would be time better spent. The Alberta advantage is that we can do these kinds of things and have our gov listen and allow a small group like ours to be adopted and given full gov powers of authority. That's a huge step that doesn't happen everywhere.

Hope that helps you out a little bit.

Cheers

[canadagrey]

There isn't a meeting of any organization that is either Hunting or Fishing related you go to regardless of the topic that the Next Question Is WHERE IS ENFORCEMENT?

Barry, Dave & Don and all that spearheaded Streamwatch are all to be commended for their efforts in establishing this program to fill the void in enforcement created from our govt.

Maybe now is the is the time to restart a major push for an increase in CO's with the appearance of the vunerablility right now of the govt of the past 30 plus years. Votes talk.

[dutchie]

Votes talk.

 

your correct , only that if you was to add us all up for votes , we still wouldn't count for much in the numbers game , thats why they don't even look at it , the money is spent better in other areas for them to get way more votes

 

the only thing i see that could help everyone ''NOW'' , is everyone who fish's or loves the outdoors , is to help get it police'd heavy ,

 

every time you look you should see a CO somewhere or a streamwatch guy , and even at that they will still take fish home or break the rules , increase the fines for poaching would really be good , start hitting the rule breakers pocket books for money and they will soon stop , word travels fast

 

i just hope when this spring time rolls around , we all try or step up to bat in some way , even if it's just a wee little thing , it all will help and it's the only light i see at the end of the tunnel at this time , i'd like to see 5 guys in the south walking the rivers and checking the lakes , but that will never happen ,

 

i just heard from a email that alot of times the CO's don't get overtime pay and thats why they answer the calls the next day , budget cutbacks again ,

 

 

[TerryH]

I agree with much of the above -- i.e. the need for a Streamwatch program, given that the government is probably never going to provide a suitable level of enforcement. For this reason, I've supported the program in tangible ways -- i.e. cash donations, donations to the online auction, and I will continue to give. However, I am concerned that if Streamwatch is going to be an ongoing program, as opposed to a stop gap measure, there is the risk of donor fatigue setting in. Perhaps that is already happening. Anyway, where I'm headed is to suggest that a formal report be published at the end of each season. The report should give statistics on the number of warnings, charges, convictions etc. so that donors and potential donors can see the impact of the program. Terry

[reevesr1]

I think if you talk to Greg you would find that the final total from the online auctions were down this year fairly substantially. Could be various reasons:

-Poor economy

-donor fatigue

-loss of community (while bigger, the board does not have the sense of community it once did, IMHO)

 

My bet is the economy was the big driver in any loss of donations. Be interesting to see what happens next year. I donated a couple of prizes last year, but did not purchase anything. If the economy looks up, I'll still donate and probably buy something as well.

 

I agree with the posts that we should not have to do this, but until such time as the gov't steps up I can think of worse places to donate my time and money.

 

[dutchie]

donor fatigue

 

i'd say that is the big one , it seems almost every day someone looking for money for this and that , i can just bet what them poor fly shops get pounded with everyone wanting them to give something out for free , i bet it's sick with all the request they get and in truth that is not really fair for them to have to step up all the time ,

 

this should be on all of us , every guy or gal who fishes in alberta and maybe some of them guides from over in south B.C who fish over in alberta will donate something this year for the good cause , heck i'd buy a float from them on the elk if they donated it for the auction , how about it elk river guys , putting you on the spot LOL

 

i know this is a good cause , and maybe this year everyone can pass out the word and really push it as by god the rivers and lakes need it now more then ever

[nebc]

First off, I fully SUPPORT THE STREAMWATCH PROGRAM.

:derby racer:

My question is WHY shoud WE PAY or solicit for Partners to in some way fill the void of the Conservation Officers in the province?

Should not the Alberta Government be responsible for enforcement? I think so.

The Streamwatch Funds could be better spent on Conservation and Rehabilitation.

Your Thoughts????

I was with BC Fish And Wildlife for 33 years as a wildlie biologist, and can definately say that what made Conservation Enforcement effective was the establishment of a public information feedback network such as what seems to be the objective here. I would support it were I an Alberta resident.

[nebc]

I think they should raise the cost of licenses to around 100$ for a year and then have a license you can buy that lasts 1 month for about 25$ for people that don't like to fish all year long There always saying they don't have the funds so raise the cost to fish. Ya some people might not buy one at a higher price but I think most of us would.

 

While well-intended that pittance would not get you what you expect....and as usual, it is reflective of how the public is less well informed as to what the best options are.

 

Don't throw a pile of money at this but DO sponsor and support a much improved reporting feedback. Never just vote for giving governments more cash as the guys that need it cannot appropriately improve their capability with more cash very often. Government has a way of swallowing such $$ into the bureacracy where there is talk and little done...

[dutchie]

Don't throw a pile of money at this but DO sponsor and support a much improved reporting feedback. Never just vote for giving governments more cash as the guys that need it cannot appropriately improve their capability with more cash very often. Government has a way of swallowing such $$ into the bureacracy where there is talk and little done

 

nebc , very very well stated , that just about says it all

[Neil Waugh]

It's all very well and good to rant and rave about the government in your little FFC cyber-bubble, but the reality of the situation was spelled out at the guide licensing meeting by Ken Crutchfield (I don't recall Ken Ambrock being there) last weekend.

Where he put a wooden spike in the heart of the registry not because the fish and wildlife division doesn't necessary dislike the idea.

But because he DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY!!!

In fact he let slip that the Alberta government fish-and-game-o-crats are now preparing 2009-2010 budget scenarios for a 10 and 15% cut as Lloyd Snelgrove tries to squeeze $500 million out of the bottom line.

And as BRB was apparently told (I didn't hear it) there are already 8 vacant FWD positions that won't be filled. While Ken revealed he's also "transitioning" out of the government. Which probably means 9 empty desks.

That's the reality. Especially with Wildrose Danielle and every second Calgary oil patch angry calling out Stelmach over government deficits.

Calgary, you asked for it you got it.

[orvisonly]

DonAndersen...

 

..is not so typical that such a RICH province never has the $$$$ to return to it's land what it has reaped from it..that's all I've ever heard from a 'corporate province'.....NO $$$$$...what a load of crap..someone or some department is getting more of the $$$$ that the ppl of this province has paid for the fishing licenses then what this government proposed in the first place... and seeing just 3 bodies working the entire area is quite a joke...the worst part is that only one person working south of Red River...that is even more hilarious..and you say that you have been 'fighting' with the government for more than 30 years to do something about it...please my sides are splitting with laughter...ever thought of changing the idiots who were put in power...but it is much easier to turn to the public and ask them to fork over more $$$$ to enlist more bodies to police what this province has raped in the first place..or should it be known that the corporations did the raping, either way the end result is that the ppl in here whine a lot but if something is passed before them to shut them up..they are all for it..the almighty Albertan buck.......Wolfie

 

Wolfie et al,

 

I sense that you are challenged with respect to understanding the concept of a democracy. Let me take a moment to explain to you and the rest of the Reds on this forum the concept that, in a democracy, the government and the people, that is the majority of the people, are one and the same. When you chastise the government for its policies, the group that you are really at odds with is the majority of people in the province. The government does what it does because that is what the majority of people want. The concept you struggle with is that an individual can be part of the majority on the most of the issues, but find him or herself in the minority on some issues.

 

When one finds oneself in the minority (and in the case of enforcement of fishing regulations anyone who thinks it is important is in the extreme minority), one must accept that if they feel the issue is important they must personally take measures to address it. In the case of Streamwatch, that is what happened.

 

 

 

[Bigtoad]

Forgive my naivete, but if college students (I believe that is who is being used for streamwatch?) can be trained and then sent out to "catch the bad guys," why can't there be a course offered to fishermen interested in helping out? I don't know what powers the interns have but fishermen who have taken the course should at least be able to collect evidence (pics of fish/tackle/technique) and ask to see their license number. They could then file a formal report and the C/O's could follow up on that.

 

I'm just thinking that 5 interns aren't as good as 50 of us that would be willing to be trained. Am I out to left field here or what?

 

Cheers.

[wtforward]

For a little deja vu have a read from the transcript of Hansard March 30, 2004.

Scroll to Page 774 leading off with the Hon.Member of Edmonton-Strathcona,

Dr. Pannu. Pages 774 to 776 and you should get the drift. Fast forward to

now and ask your self what has really changed. Democracy does not work

or is even remotely alive in this province and the Streamwatch program

is a good as it gets unless there is a change and we all know what the

chances of that happenning are.

 

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/ISYS/LADDAR_file...1330_01_han.pdf

[Harps]

Forgive my naivete, but if college students (I believe that is who is being used for streamwatch?) can be trained and then sent out to "catch the bad guys," why can't there be a course offered to fishermen interested in helping out? I don't know what powers the interns have but fishermen who have taken the course should at least be able to collect evidence (pics of fish/tackle/technique) and ask to see their license number. They could then file a formal report and the C/O's could follow up on that.

 

I'm just thinking that 5 interns aren't as good as 50 of us that would be willing to be trained. Am I out to left field here or what?

 

Cheers.

 

The streamwatch officers get special status under the fisheries act allowng them to issue citations, where a uniform, check licenses, etc.

They are not just college students, but trained enforcement staff employed by the province (paid by the streamwatch program).

 

 

Anybody can collect info and send it to the RAP line.

You need special status to check licenses.

Collecting evidence requires a Peace Officer and a warrant.

[kipper]

First off I believe the Stream Watch Program is great idea and the people that pushed for it and got it started are to be commended for their effort. Those who commented on this board are right in saying that there has been a shortage of field staff in the Fish and Wildlife division for the past 30 years. I recall an incident not all that many years ago where budgetary restraints in that Division were so bad that the officers couldn't leave their offices to patrol and only went out in the cases of complaints being called in- there was no money for overtime and no money for gasoline to fuel their trucks. With the economy going south the way it has it looks like a lot of position vacancies will not be filled and no hiring taking place..another step backward. Unfortunately - as we all know - when times are tough the first Departments to get their budgets axed are Fish and Wildlife and the Parks Departments. We need the Stream Watch Program now more than ever. IMO

[canadagrey]

We already have over 200 County Police in Alberta, they however have no enforcement in any F&W infractions. These being in place already would not cost additional funds and at least offer some sort of presence. Could this be another avenue for enforcement?

[flyfishfairwx]

I hope this is still relevant to the thread I have not read all posts

 

If the price of the lic is raised to $100 or $10000000 CND then that money is still going to go into General Revenue coffers and IBM for the most part.. I know that some of it does go to ACA but and there is always a but the majority of it goes to General Rev and IBM..

 

So maybe the Province should do what New Brunswick did about 15years ago, add a $5.00 stamp to the license that total fiver goes to the resource every friggin penny.. and it works, hell make it an even Tenner and the fishing license here would be a deal.. non-residents and non Canadians make the lic the same price but up the stamp price that way the extra money they pay goes right back to the resource they came here to enjoy!!!!!!

 

I know this deviates from the why "should we the people be paying for" this but why not have "River Keepers" as they do in England.. and Riverwatchers"

[DaveJensen]

Ken ___ oops. Braincramp in typing That's why I have friends like Neil to correct me.

[flyfishfairwx]

Ken ___ oops. Braincramp in typing That's why I have friends like Neil to correct me.

 

Hi Dave J

 

Is the above a response to my post.. Just curious as the Conservation stamp in NB puts real money in the coffers for the resource...

 

Just curious ..

 

Thanks

 

[Bigtoad]

The streamwatch officers get special status under the fisheries act allowng them to issue citations, where a uniform, check licenses, etc.

They are not just college students, but trained enforcement staff employed by the province (paid by the streamwatch program).

 

 

Anybody can collect info and send it to the RAP line.

You need special status to check licenses.

Collecting evidence requires a Peace Officer and a warrant.

 

I wasn't saying they were "just" college students. I was just saying, why not give more people, who would be willing to be trained in some way, some kind of special status? Status besides calling it in and waiting around for C/O's who are too few and far between. I believe the streamwatch program is great. I'm not getting down on it. I just think the concept could be expanded to a few more willing participants.

[canadagrey]

I hope this is still relevant to the thread I have not read all posts

 

If the price of the lic is raised to $100 or $10000000 CND then that money is still going to go into General Revenue coffers and IBM for the most part.. I know that some of it does go to ACA but and there is always a but the majority of it goes to General Rev and IBM..

 

So maybe the Province should do what New Brunswick did about 15years ago, add a $5.00 stamp to the license that total fiver goes to the resource every friggin penny.. and it works, hell make it an even Tenner and the fishing license here would be a deal.. non-residents and non Canadians make the lic the same price but up the stamp price that way the extra money they pay goes right back to the resource they came here to enjoy!!!!!!

 

I know this deviates from the why "should we the people be paying for" this but why not have "River Keepers" as they do in England.. and Riverwatchers"

 

We are already paying a fee similiar. The old Buck for Wildlife now the ACA already gets their money from us. Would I pay more? Sure but like you it has to go directly to the resource not to General Revenue.