Jayhad

I bring this topic up as I would like to see a fundemental change to how the Bow is managed and I feel a guides association could achieve these objectives. Please note these are only my perceptions (wrong or right) of how the Bow could be managed to much better fishery. From my OP.

Come on guys lets get this ripping. in BC they have over 15 pages of generosity can we see past our rod tips to help a brother out. FNG, you are in..... ps bring beer lol

Camel, Don't be so sure it will take money out of guides pockets, there are cases in other areas where guides associations have had regulations put in place to make it more profitable Liability insurance is actually much cheapier than $5000 for a single guy operation, all of the situations you stated should be covered except for food.. from my understanding if a guide is providing you with prepackaged food the onis is on the food manufacturer, if the guide is making the food it must conform to Alberta food safe laws, and there the guide could be open to liability. But if any of these do happen having your insurance renewed may be challenging to say the least. Unsafe water conditions; who would know better if the water is unsafe than a guide, tough one to win in court. guide just needs to testify that he felt the water conditions were safe and from his experience they should have been. Plus if we are talking about drifting the Bow (down stream of the weir) there aren't to many hazards compared to many watersheds that have class 3 & 4 rapids. If a guide doesn't carry insurance he's playing with fire period. AS for tax purposes if you carry a business license and insurance and show no income year after year sooner or later rev can is going to want to know how you live....... tips, now I'm sure most of those don't get declared

Fair enough I don't have all or even any answers on how this should be managed or regulated, there are many places in the world where we could take policies from. This is really the current system, buyer beware. I was trying to point out that a licenced boat system can't work as there are guides that have no interest in owning or using a boat, there are large area of this province where owning a licenced boat would be of no benefit to either guide or the consumer. I've never stated or complained that any of this would be too much trouble, actually to the contrary I am posting this discussion to see what can be done and in the end if I can help. Go back and read, you will see I never said that anyone is stealing food from my plate, but I would like to see revenues generated off of Alberta resources staying in Alberta.... nothing to do with my plate or pocket. If you read my first post my objective of this was to the betterment of the resource not anyones wallets, I feel a guides association all evils aside could bring one benefit of being a focused voice towards better management, but please don't read this as I am for or against a guides association. finally, why you so mad bro

So a guide who only does wade and walks and isn't not Bow-centric how would he be regulated? This wouldn't solve the out of province guides working the foothills.

So F&W uses a policy that was implimented 30 years ago to manage our fisheries????

If you feel it is that simple I implore you to start a petition and spearhead that effort.

well get on it Jer.... this is the reason for this discussion a guides association will have a much larger voice than this forum or a single dude trying to implement changes. Our Govt`understands $$$ not bleeding hearts. A guides association could show that the fishery is a worthwhile investment for govt coffers

Brent, thank you some excellent points there; and in asking questions please don't think I am attacking or questioning the validity of your statements I am just trying to get a better understanding. I completely agree these are hold ups, an association would have to police itself. As for who is a guide is I would think there would have to be boat restrictions, (no tinnies or canoes) evidence of first aid, and liability insurance. How do you manage the watershed? I have no idea, but if things continue unregulated where will we be? Perhaps a review of days guided the previous year with a 10% increase. You don't have to travel very far south to see we are taking it between the anal fins on shuttle prices Do you really think this is an issue? these guys never really put much effort or $$$ into their service so they go by the wayside, mind you if it was government run this would become a non-issue I think this may be a sign of the times, these problems are evident on most major watersheds in western Canada right now. Look at threads about the Thompson, Vedder, Fraser, our bow river report has one rant at least each day in the summer. I haven't fished in the US much are they experiencing the same things? or are we just not used to the growing pains of our ever increasingly popular streams? There's always going to be a-holes Even though I'm a culprit of fishing in the winter I couldn't agree more, this season I have decided to give them rest. (not judging anyone if it's legal knock yourself out) Honestly I've never given this any thought, you'd have to be living under a rock since the 60's to not know wide flow changes negatively effects fish but I thought in the Bow it was becuase we have so much concrete funneling water into the Bow. Does transalta open the valves more? I don't guide in this area as I feel it sees far to much traffic, but I think it is a prime example for rod day restrictions, I think closing guiding on all cutthroat streams is not the way to go as there is tons of virtually untoached cutty criks in this province, and then we may see a negative influx of days on the Bow, but your point does have merit. So no guiding before 7:00am? tough one for myself personally as I like to fish the stonefly hatches from 22:00-4:00 but typically that is it for me for the day. I don't see this as lowering pressure unless there is a large amount of guides taking out two groups in one day..... I know of several guides that like to launch at 4:00 Am but they are typically off at 13:00 and don't reguide. Thanks for your input

Yours, late june good for ya? and it's for two if you can't fill that we can put the spot up for another to jump on.

I will give up a guided drift on the Bow. Perhaps above the weir. No lunch supplied and we'll split the shuttle 1 Seat still availible

OK There has been many opinions expressed for and against a guides association on this forum from time to time. At one time there was a guides association, but from one that wasn't involved it looks as though it has gone by the way side., ie website is dead and no reasonable research can locate information. I for one can't really decide if it is a good thing or not my two concerns are: -Having a guides association can bring awareness to the economic value of our resource and one voice can impact change. PGK has brought very good information to the table to support this idea. -Through economic value, guides have been able to impact usage of resources for the benefit of thier pockets while presenting the implemented restrictions as a benefit to resource. I feel it would be horrible if a guides association was able to inact changes that saw restrictive rod days, to both residents and non-residents on our waters. What is restricting us from getting this off the ground? -is it public perception as to what the guides should be responsible for? -------->I for one don't agree that a guides association should be responsible for education of the masses, electricians aren't putting on wire identification courses. -Are there to few guides to hold an association together? is it always the same few writing, lobbying, and attending meetings to the point as where they get burnt out? -$$$, guides don't want to pony up? and why should they when the unregulated status quo seems to be working? -Would the govt. care? -Is our Alberta culture of limited govt involvement to blame? Perhaps provincial licensing wouldn't happen but again I come to one voice carries some weight. -Is there to much disent from guides toward one another? -I was told this season from a guide that I wouldn't be allowed to be part of the guides association as my skiff doesn't have knee braces (it's designed to be fished out of sitting) are inflexable rules holding guides back? I bring this topic up as I would like to see a fundemental change to how the Bow is managed and I feel a guides association could achieve these objectives. Please note these are only my perceptions (wrong or right) of how the Bow could be managed to much better fishery; With a river that is constantly reffered to as a "Blue Ribbon Fishery" shouldn't it be managed as such? -1. Bait Ban from Bearspaw to Carseland, the maggot whitefish opening does experience a lot of trout by catch. -2. No retintion, Catch and Release; there are a lot of put and take fisheries in this province and the province suggests you don't consume fish from the Bow. -3. Changing the definition of HOOK in this management zone or Bow specific, so three hooks can be used but with only one point each. Running mulitple trebles on a C&R water is not in the best interest of the fishery. Your thoughts, hopefully some guides will chime in to the failures in the past and how we could move forward (I say failure as there is no public perception that there is a guides association currently)

I would like to believe we at FFC could pull off something like this. In the thread you can give up something you have no use for, if you gave up something you can take something of like value. Perhaps it is something we can one day strive to accomplish in the name Christmas and as an attempt to bring our fractured Alberta fishing community together. What say you? http://forum.flybc.ca/index.php?showtopic=34231

This last week while walking a BC river my father and I saw a freshly dead grey heron (sp?). I didn't pilfer it as we both thought there were legal issues, I recall that there are plumes on the bird that are desired for spey flys.... Are there any issues with owning heron feathers and what steps need to be taken if I wanted to "claim" this skin?

I haven't used the stuff but could you use some self leveling cement to correct the floor, then apply any flooring

THanks me???? that was the funniest drift ever period. anytime man

Jeff i have seen cutties in the other branches as well. The first time I fished that water I got in there as the sun was setting. I saw some fish rising so i chucked a stimmy out and I got a bully after 3 more casts with 3 more bullies on the stimmy I was pretty satisfied. Gary, who is in one of those pics pretty much fished the bullies with drys and he took double digits. Several K's down another little crik comes in and there i've seen some monsters. if i didn't know better the way they were coloured I would swear they are artics, they are deep dark red with little to no spots. I talked to some SRD staff with pics and GPS coordinates they told me they are a very different and distinct bullies and they were very surprised I've hiked in there. Holy are there ever some bears up there and i saw a bizzilion cat tracks. Next season we should walk some of that, but after you come down for your drift.

when the trout are chasing salmon, ramming into their bellys making the salmon drop eggs that's matching the hatch. Pretty accepted practice on those river systems Jeff you probably do know exactly where that is, there were no cutties in late july when we went up there. the log jam is still there It was full of 18 - 26 bullies, I'm surprised at how healthy that system is..... i guided a guy up there this season and he got a 18" brown.... blew me away

Junior do you have access to the breakdown, I was of the understanding that it goes into genereal revenue... but if $X goes into general revenue and general revenu pays out $X to the fisheries that's awesome and really my point would be incorrect and moot, I hope you are right

Well, I'm in BC and after 40mm of rain in the last 2 days rivers are ripping. I've managed to roach a wifi signal so I decided to drop some pics of this season that coincide with some great days. I really fished the Bow a lot this season, having a new drifter that is so easy to work with made not driving for trout easy this season. I gave a way a few free drifts to FFC members and those days were perhaps the most enjoyable of all, each time i felt I was repayed in knowledge, new freindships and in the case of FNG.... beer, lots and lots o' beer. Here are some pics, hope you enjoy. Those of you that drifted with me this season are welcome again next and if I'm not to busy I hope some of the other FFC members will jump aboard this coming season. We'll have a sweet drift, see some bikinis, laugh, eat well and maybe stumble upon a bruin or two.

I read this as more wind from the resident gas bag. Kris, you come on to this forum and call the members names and degrade us, but yet you demand we take you as the super dope gansta smart fish biologist you believe you are. Rather than trying to fan the flames use your book smarts and all your infinit wisdom and offer some suggestions, rather than "do something." Some people on this forum are doing things and don't talk about it on the forum becuase they are doing it for the fish not for internet pats on the back. I would happily pay more, even though you paint all of us with a hugely wide brush saying "You're all cheap". For me $500 a year is still a bargin. OUr system doesn't have classified waters, I' d love to see that. We don't have conservation tags, I'd love to see that. Our system doesn't put license revenues into the resource it goes into General Revenue, I would love to see a change. Our guiding industry can't get a guides association off of the ground, why? I don't know, I agree with you that guide associations get things done by associating value to the resource. Plus the government has no intention to regulate guides, how do we change that? Many of the community support Stream Watch, that is doing something. So Kris, I ask, no plead with you to give us a small tidbit of knowledge on how we can fix our systems, you clearly have the answers. I don't know what to do other than what is currently being done. Please note saying change the current govt isn't a solution it's a pipe dream, and it is no guarentee that a new govt. would act in a way we as anglers wish they would. Jay

Don, couldn't the govt' step up and do the RIGHT and apply license revenues to the resource rather than general revenue? I guess fat chance of that happening though eh?

No problem if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. Sage makes it worth my while to stay educated. Once the positive temps come back I am more than happy to let you cast some of the sticks I have at my disposal.