The Three Stooges Thread

[Teck71]

WOW 5620 now

 

[TerryH]

.......... - PET is rolling in his grave right now. ...............

Let's just hope he stays in his grave. With all the craziness happening right now, it wouldn't surprise me if he's trying to get out.

 

This whole thing is getting more bizarre by the minute -- Elizabeth May in the Senate and then the cabinet, another billion to Quebec in equalization (guess where those $'s are coming from). God help us all. Terry

 

[Jeffro]

6375 now

 

[Ricinus]

Do we really want another election? I think we would just end up right where we are now.

 

Maybe it's time for Harper to step aside.

[Jeffro]

Do we really want another election? I think we would just end up right where we are now.

 

Maybe it's time for Harper to step aside.

Given the other option I would much rather go to the polls...

 

My 2 cents

[admin]

Even the Liberal party doesn't want Dion and he figures to take over as PM? It's legal, but I still have a problem with it. I voted for a party and I can accept that they did not get elected, this seems like there are some sore losers out there. This system obviously isn't working to the benefit of Canadians. We seem quite against change but it looks like it will be forced upon us shortly. The Stooges are playing nice for the time being, but how long will that last?

[reevesr1]

So I looked up Westminster system on Wiki, and cut this part out:

 

But it must also be remembered that prime ministers can usually do only as much as public opinion and the balance of party membership of parliament will let them do. And it is relatively rare that a prime minister will have a big enough majority to cancel opposition from smaller parties; in practice, government in most parliamentary systems is made up of coalitions, and prime ministers must keep the coalitions happy.

 

Here is the entire piece:

Your system, like it or not

 

So, you guys just had an election, and the conservatives garnered a whopping what, 38% of the vote? But since this was more than last time, and the Libs dropped seats, in the conservatives minds this represented some sort of mandate? Really?

 

There have been a lot of statements that the other parties are just in this for personal power, and how they don't care about anything else. Again, really? And just how did the conservative gov. try to work together with the other parties in this time of economic hardship? The fist chance Harper got post election, he tried to rub their noses in it by attempting to change their funding rules. Boy, now that is how you work together in times of trouble! The conservatives are in this for power just like everyone else. If their plans and "the good of the country" happen to align, then great. If they don't align then a political party will do what it takes to keep itself in power whether it is good for the country or not. Always and forever amen.

 

This is a bad development for myself and the industry I work in. But I hold no anger against the oppostition parties for getting together. They are using the system as it is designed. If the people don't like it, change the system. My anger is against Harper in general. For the most part, I thought he was doing a good job. But he played the sanctimonius ***hole part once too often. In this case he made a horrific mistake, and is going to pay a huge price for it.

 

In the long run, this will probably work out ok for the conservatives. Whoever is in charge over the next several years is going to have an absolute mess on his hands. Next election, there will be anger against the coalition for taking power and then allowing the country to flounder (and it is going to flounder for a bit no matter who is in power). The conservatives will win a majority and all will be right in the western Canadian world. In the short term, the honorable member from Calgary has screwed the pooch and Alberta is going to pay for it.

[duanec]

And just how did the conservative gov. try to work together with the other parties in this time of economic hardship? The fist chance Harper got post election, he tried to rub their noses in it by attempting to change their funding rules.

 

...hold no anger against the oppostition parties for getting together. They are using the system as it is designed. If the people don't like it, change the system. My anger is against Harper in general. For the most part, I thought he was doing a good job. But he played the sanctimonius ***hole part once too often. In this case he made a horrific mistake, and is going to pay a huge price for it.

 

amen to that - well spoke

[Bobr]

11066 Total Signatures as of 13:15.

Be interesting to see what comes of this

[reevesr1]

A total of 13832972 votes were cast nationally of the 23401064 registered voters\

 

This equates to .08% of actual voters and .05% of registered.

 

If I was one of the Three Stooges, I'd be shaking in my boot. Or maybe not.

 

 

[Ricinus]

Actually Rick, I think $50/barrel oil and whether President-elect Obama declares that the Oilsands are dirty oil are going to affect Alberta one Hell of a lot more than a Liberal coalition.

 

Don't forget out of the last 100 yrs 75 have had a Liberal Govt in Ottawa and we seem to have done Okay

 

Regards Mike

[orvisonly]

Thank you for your opinion on this rickr. I do love political history buffs, but I regret that I give you a C- for the quality of your research.

 

What is being suggested is a coalition between a staunch federalist party and a party whose stated mandate is to break up that federation. Calling that normal in a parlimentary system is akin to saying if Winston and Adolf had formed an alliance to avoid conflict, that would have been normal.

 

Perhaps the university of Wikpedia has let you down here.

 

Since Confederation (you can google that to find out what it is), there has been a grand total of one (1) coalition government in Canada. It was formed in 1917 and was announced BEFORE the election. Suggesting that Canadians should have expected that the Grits, the Reds, and the Blockheads would form a coalition AFTER the election is absurd. This is especially true given that the notion of a coalition was soundly rejected by Mr. Dion during the election.

 

As an expert on the Westminster Model, you must know that in addition to Great Britain, it is used by many Commonwealth countries. Great Britain hasn't had a coalition government since WW II, and it, like the only other coalition since 1900 in Great Britain was proposed by the Queen during times of war and not in an effort to defeat a minority government.

 

Italy, Germany, Turkey, Israel, the Nordic countries and most other places where coalitions are common do not belong to the Commonwealth, and they do not use the Westminster Model of Parliament. Perhaps you could look up the difference between constitutional monarchies and parliamentary republics. Coalitions are more common in the latter.

 

I would also suggest that you research the significance of the Speech from the Throne of a new government in the Westminster system, and what it means when the opposition parties let it pass "on division". Perhaps then you may understand why Mr.Harper might feel he did have a mandate.

 

If you do some more research for your dissertation, you might come to a different conclusion regarding precedence for the scenario presented.

[reevesr1]

Actually Rick, I think $50/barrel oil and whether President-elect Obama declares that the Oilsands are dirty oil are going to affect Alberta one Hell of a lot more than a Liberal coalition.

 

Don't forget out of the last 100 yrs 75 have had a Liberal Govt in Ottawa and we seem to have done Okay

 

Regards Mike

 

Mike,

You could be right, but I suspect that once the realities of the job kick in (I can buy my oil, a bit dirty, from politically stable Canada or nice and clean from Saudi, land of madrassas) may change ole Barak's viewpoint. Pragmatism should win out in this case.

 

I would say "agreed" on point two, but since I don't vote here and I live in Alberta, I'll reserve judgement on that one!

[Pipes]

This is about power. Harper made a very bad call. But it's a bit ironic that he is trying to change the "system as it is designed", gets crucified by the opposition. Imagine, if he tried to change the very practice with which the coalition is acting upon? I’m guessing the same result. Fundamentally, how can anyone who believes in democracy, party representative or otherwise go for this? Whether the practice is place do this or not, I just don't buy it, but clearly 3 party leaders do. 38% apparently means nothing in political realm, but I would give my left nut to own 38% of Microsoft. A bit of an exaggeration, but the fact that there are more than 2 parties, 38% is enough of a share to rule the roost.

While the timing of Harper’s funding cuts is poor, it is of even greater consequence that the coalition try to act now. Yeah, this is not good for Alberta, but it is not good for any part of Canada. That’s what I care about. So why should I be paying for a party that wants to take my belongings and start up their own family?

 

[wtforward]

No question you have to wonder what Harper was thinking but stick

your hand in a beehive and your going to get stung. What would you

expect the other parties to do...lay down ? Reverse the tables - do

you think the Conservative would have acted any different. Not

likely. Coalition governments do work although the separtists component

may make it interesting. But if any province Alberta included wants to

be independent in these times or anytime going forward have at it and lots

of luck because your are going to need it. I personally would not have a

problem with Dion for five months until either Ignatieff or Rae become

the new Liberal leader. Seeing another side of the real Harper and you

want to give this guy a majority. Be careful of what you wish for. If

you really want to look who really calls the shots look south. I don't

know if it matters who is in power. We are not going anywhere until

our neighbor to south's economy improves and when that will happen

is anyone guess.

 

[bhurt]

I don't know much about politics myself but here is how I see things.

 

1) Did dion not say he would step down as leader of the bloc if he lost the election and now through backdoor dealing he might be our leader, how wonderful is that! A lier for a potintal leader. Maybe this will promt western canada to pull the bullshit Quebec tried and actually seprate (I would feel sorry for the marintime provinice as they are cut off from the rest of canada

 

2) To topple the current goverment just shows how these three parties really don't care about the people, because we voted for this.

 

Also I would like to know what the Liberal goverment the last 20 years has ever done for western canada except bitch at us for our economy, Mulorney wasn't that great as a leader and Kim Cambell was even worst but they never pulled a move like what is happening right now.

 

As it has been said before this is a kick to ALL canadains ass as this is not democracy, all this says is that if the three other parties don't like the turn out of a election then they can ban togather and say **** you to all canadains and take over the goverment, to me this sounds like a coue (sp)

[rehsifylf]

I think it has been said that this has nothing to do with democracy - it may suck, but it is not undemocratic. In fact, it took a yank to point out that this is the basis of our democracy I don't condone lying, but all parties have done it, including the Conservatives.

 

My take on the current coalition is that Gov Gen suspends parliament. Each party does a poll and find out it would be a huge mistake, then the coalition group says, OK for the sake of Canada, we won't do it, cause we are the good guys. Crisis averted.

 

But as long as we are doing petitions - how about fair and equal representation in Parliment? Going from 2007 numbers, Canada has 32.945M people. I looked at provincial and territorial populations versus the number of seats in parliment. There are 308 seats in the government, and based on population:

 

BC should have 41 seats, but only has 36 (ripped off by 14%)

Alberta should have 32 seats (32.5 actually), but only has 28 (ripped off by 14.2%)

Sask should have 9 seats , but has 14 seats (56% more seats than they should have)

Man should have 11 seats, but has 14 (27% more seats than they should have)

Ontario should have 120 seats, but has 106 (ripped off by 13.2%)

Quebec should have 72 seats, but has 75 (4.1% more seats than they should have)

NB should have 7 seats, but has 10 (42.9% more seats than they should have)

NS should have 9 seats, but has 11 (22.2% more seats than they should have)

PEI should have 1 seat, but has 4 (300% more than they should have)

NFLD should have 5 seats, but has 7 seats (40% more than they should have)

Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut combined should have less than 1 seat. but have 3 seats (200%+ more than they should have)

 

How do you get that changed? If you look at the people getting ripped - BC, Alberta, and Ontario - you have a total of 170 seats in the house. Enough to pass a vote.

 

Its a joke that PEI has four seats. Between PEI and the Territories, they have 7 seats but represent less than 250000 people. Calgary has 1M+ people and 8 seats. That means we get 1/4 of the representation of someone in Nunavat.

[reevesr1]

From this mornings Cal Herald Business Section (hardly a bastion of Liberal thought)

"Instead of using it as an opportunity to set the course for the country that will act as an economic roadmap in the coming months, what was delivered was nothing short of being small-minded and mean-spirited, not to mention devoid of anything resembling a vision for the country. Nor did it appear, as Harper had promised following the election, that cooperation among the political parties was something he was interested in fostering in the coming parlimentary session. Canadians expected-and desrerved more."

 

That from the business section of the PM's hometown. In the same article he was called "plain arrogant" and "more concerned about his ego than running the country" and his handling of the "lame fiscal update" "plain stupidity".

 

Who is everyone mad at again? And who is in this only for the sake of power?

 

I hope that this gets resolved and the conservatives remain the government. But to be blunt, this crisis is a direct result of the arrogance, incompetence, and over inflated ego of the PM. Simple as that.

 

Dissenting views?

[degorter]

Thanks for the link Clive. We're up to 123885

[flyfishfairwx]

From this mornings Cal Herald Business Section (hardly a bastion of Liberal thought)

"Instead of using it as an opportunity to set the course for the country that will act as an economic roadmap in the coming months, what was delivered was nothing short of being small-minded and mean-spirited, not to mention devoid of anything resembling a vision for the country. Nor did it appear, as Harper had promised following the election, that cooperation among the political parties was something he was interested in fostering in the coming parlimentary session. Canadians expected-and desrerved more."

 

That from the business section of the PM's hometown. In the same article he was called "plain arrogant" and "more concerned about his ego than running the country" and his handling of the "lame fiscal update" "plain stupidity".

 

Who is everyone mad at again? And who is in this only for the sake of power?

 

I hope that this gets resolved and the conservatives remain the government. But to be blunt, this crisis is a direct result of the arrogance, incompetence, and over inflated ego of the PM. Simple as that.

 

Dissenting views?

 

 

NOPE, from me, and that Pisses me off.....

 

Egotistical Barstool he is ...

 

[orvisonly]

I hate it when I'm fishing and I put what I think is an excellent presentation over an area where I can see a fish holding. It floats right by and the fish doesn't even move.

 

Makes me realize that even though I thought it was a good drift, it was probably clumbsy and obvious.

 

The same presentations work well on smaller fish though.

[bigbowtrout]

I hate it when I buy a nice Black Forest Cake and the idiot turns it sideways to get it in the bag!!!!!! now I get home and the icing is stuck to the sides of the box. :$*%&:

[toolman]

It's too bad that the leader of the Bloc, Gilles Duceppe, is not a federalist, as he is definetly the best of the lot of them...

Then I'd vote for him in the next Federal Erection, which will be soon...The Bloc is sitting in the "House of Morons", laughing their asses off, watching the Conservatives, NDP and Liberals, rip each other too shreds...Smart guy that Duceppe...

I like him...

[reevesr1]

I hate it when I'm fishing and I put what I think is an excellent presentation over an area where I can see a fish holding. It floats right by and the fish doesn't even move.

 

Makes me realize that even though I thought it was a good drift, it was probably clumbsy and obvious.

 

The same presentations work well on smaller fish though.

 

Funny.

 

I know this fisherman who knows exactly where a particular fish lives as the fish does not try hard to conceal himself. The fisherman has tried to catch this fish many times in the past, with limited success. As time has gone on, the fish has learned to recognize this particular fisherman and while he may rise to the fisherman's presentations from time to time for the fun of it, particularly ones he finds unique, he has learned to mostly ignore him and he'll go away.

[Pipes]

Funny.

 

I know this fisherman who knows exactly where a particular fish lives as the fish does not try hard to conceal himself. The fisherman has tried to catch this fish many times in the past, with limited success. As time has gone on, the fish has learned to recognize this particular fisherman and while he may rise to the fisherman's presentations from time to time for the fun of it, particularly ones he finds unique, he has learned to mostly ignore him and he'll go away.

 

That's because he should be using a SJW (the fly, not the moderator). No one can resist the attractivness of the SJW (the fly, not the moderator).