bigalcal Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 This season Flames had 26 man roster with 62.7 salary (3 mil over salary cap). Next year they have 16 players (9 with no trade) signed to 53.2 mil so that gives them 6 mil to sign Tanguay, Glencross, Morrison, Babchuk and a backup goalie. Big mess!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutsteaks Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I am not a flames fan nor will I ever be but in my opinion, they need to start by getting somebody extremely crafty in the front office. They also need to trade the face names of the franchise while they still have some face value and bring in something better than just relying on 2 franchise players (I vaguely remember a trade involving another face of the franchise that brought in Iginla; I think it was Nieuwendyk but I could be wrong). The number of games that Kiprusoff has to play each year is ridiculous; they need to find a reasonably priced goaltending tandem that can be relied upon to alternate starts through the season. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalcal Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 You are right...Nieuwendyk for Iginla....that was a different day...pre-2004 when 13,000 showed up for games and the team almost left. Hard to get a good back up goalie when Kipper makes 7 mil!! Sad ..when non Flames fans know more than Flames fans...actually..it's typical! Not very passionate fans in Calgary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Sad ..when non Flames fans know more than Flames fans...actually..it's typical! Not very passionate fans in Calgary. That freaking hurt!!!!!!! :$*%&: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbow Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 i think kipper would be good trade bait too.....except for his damn contract (although cap hit is $5.833M and cash over next 3yrs is $6.0, $5.0 and $1.5 so maybe not completely immoveable).....the trend is now to low paid goalers and teams have had good success with that strategy.....on the other hand he continues to play very well and keeps the flames in a lot of games (and steals a few)....whereas a forward or defenceman can't have nearly the same impact game in game out......i'd say Jay Feaster has a lot of work ahead of him...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryH Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 That freaking hurt!!!!!!! :$*%&: That's ok Chris, you're the exception -- the passionate part I mean. I have to X2 it with Botangles regarding the non-Flames fans knowing more than Flames fans though. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchy Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 i think kipper would be good trade bait too.....except for his damn contract (although cap hit is $5.833M and cash over next 3yrs is $6.0, $5.0 and $1.5 so maybe not completely immoveable).....the trend is now to low paid goalers and teams have had good success with that strategy.....on the other hand he continues to play very well and keeps the flames in a lot of games (and steals a few)....whereas a forward or defenceman can't have nearly the same impact game in game out......i'd say Jay Feaster has a lot of work ahead of him...... He also single-handedly loses quite a few - he's not worth his salary anymore. Sure he always has a butt load of wins.. but so would most goalies that play as many games as he does. The .906 save percentage (32nd in the league) is very telling IMO.. Time to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yak Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 That's ok Chris, you're the exception -- the passionate part I mean. I have to X2 it with Botangles regarding the non-Flames fans knowing more than Flames fans though. Terry Of course its easier for an oiler fan to recognize poor hockey, bad trades, horrible GMing etc. We have only been dealing with it the last 2 seasons wheras oiler fans have seen it on a daily basis for the last 10 years. We just dont have as much experience with craptacular as our brethren to the north. ps. as bad as its been the last 2 years we are 11-1 vs the oilers in that period. if were bad then........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryH Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 ....................ps. as bad as its been the last 2 years we are 11-1 vs the oilers in that period. if were bad then........... And where has that gotten you? Both teams are out of the playoffs, and we get a good draft pick. I like the Oiler's situation a lot better. Oh, and btw, any Flames fan who wants to talk history with an Oilers fan, is going to lose. One cup ---- even Toronto has more. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 ......We have only been dealing with it the last 2 seasons..... Bwahahahahaha If that's not post of the year, it sure is the most hilarious. Honestly, besides a fluke run in 2004 to the finals (matched by the Oilers fluke run in 2006, so I consider that a wash), what the hell have the Flames done in 22 years since 1989? If you think you've only been dealing with it for the last 2 years, I suggest you try flyfishing for perch along the river "De-nial" Too funny! You made my Friday Yak! Smittyl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yak Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 And where has that gotten you? Both teams are out of the playoffs, and we get a good draft pick. I like the Oiler's situation a lot better. Oh, and btw, any Flames fan who wants to talk history with an Oilers fan, is going to lose. One cup ---- even Toronto has more. Terry Thats all the leafs and oilers fans have is history. Both teams also have fans dumb enough to continue to fill the building even though they have mismanaged their teams into the ground. As bad as the flames may be next year we will still throttle the junior/ahl team that edmonton will ice(our captain will likley have more career poinst than the entire starting lineup for the next season) . The following year we have approx 35 million in freed up cap space to rebuild. Keep stockpiling draft picks. You guys have an incredible farm system for the rest of the NHL. By the time any of the young oilers are actually real stars they will be getting the hell out of edmonton as fast as they can and Klown can continue selling the Deadmonton masses on his 30 year rebuilding process (I wonder which american team Taylor Hall and Eberle will sign with when their rookie contracts expire). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Thats all the leafs and oilers fans have is history... And the Flames have what exactly? lol Let's talk about the truth. That's all all Canadians teams have...history. Since the last team to actually win was the Habs in '93. Canada is riding an 18 year drought. Keep them coming yak! That was an excellent effort of wishful conjecture, btw. Care to put your money where your mouth is? I bet you the Oilers win a cup sooner than the Flames, and has a better decade from 2010 to 2020 (meaning I'll even give you this season). I know - its a difficult bet to track. Loser eats some humble pie AND provides informal guided trip to some selected fishing waters in the province AND donates money to some conservation organization or charity. Bring it! Smitty P.S. I really would like the Cup back in Canada...so here it goes; holding my nose, averting my eyes, and cheering on the Canucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yak Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 wow Smitty, im flattered but you may need to get out a little more. The flames were almost as bad as the oil are now before 2004. We then made the playoffs 5 consecutive years and had one of the top winning percentages of any team in the league over that time frame.Not many other teams made the post season 5 years in a row in that same time frame ( I think maybe only the wings and sharks). Granted we didnt have the playoff success we hoped for, but it beat booking tee times in mid february (not mentioning any names). The last 2 years we missed the playoffs. Again, our barometer for shitty is much different than the recent edmonton standard (shitty means finishing 29th instead of 30th to the average oiler fan). No denial here. Next year will be a challenge. Again, in 2012 we have only 6 guys signed and a ton of cap space. Fortunately we live in a city where young players want to move to and play in so rebuild will happen. Right around the time eberle and Hall will have given their agents the " get me the hell out of here" speech. Keep smilin Smitty. Gonna be another long year for you next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yak Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 a city and organization that young players, RFAs, and UFAs, want to come to. Ill take that bet because Im willing to bet the ranch that none of the young players you guys are dreaming will lead you to a cup will stay in Edmonton once they can sign a real contract. Partially because of the city and mainly because of the dingus running the team ( the guy who gets to pull the strings on the tambellini puppet). We miss the playoffs 2 years in a row, and we fire the GM . You guys miss the playoffs over and over, finish in the basement year after year, screw up after screw up when trying to retain or sign UFAs and you promote your guy ( while still letting him run the team). Sorry, but as long as KLown is there, the oil will always be considered Micky Mouse around the league And the Flames have what exactly? lol Let's talk about the truth. That's all all Canadians teams have...history. Since the last team to actually win was the Habs in '93. Canada is riding an 18 year drought. Keep them coming yak! That was an excellent effort of wishful conjecture, btw. Care to put your money where your mouth is? I bet you the Oilers win a cup sooner than the Flames, and has a better decade from 2010 to 2020 (meaning I'll even give you this season). I know - its a difficult bet to track. Loser eats some humble pie AND provides informal guided trip to some selected fishing waters in the province AND donates money to some conservation organization or charity. Bring it! Smitty P.S. I really would like the Cup back in Canada...so here it goes; holding my nose, averting my eyes, and cheering on the Canucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I consider the bet accepted then. And yeah, if you want to talk about mis-management, just listen to your fellow Flames fans. Plenty to say about the Sutter mafia... The Oilers have done an excellent job with changing the culture of the team and organization. I believe we're headed for much better days in terms of attractiveness and keeping players here. I do appreciate how you've lowered the bar for your team though; making the playoffs 5 years in a row! Decent winning percentages! Did they hang a banner in the Saddledome for that? lol (I know there's lots of space up there!) Smitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalcal Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Don't make me have to tell the Flames fans about there team again. Fact is... if you don't count 2004, the Flames have not won a playoff round or been in the playoffs since 1989. No other team in the NHL has been so under achieving in that time. I don't know what they put in that beer at the Saddledome but it seems to brainwash the "Cloned Jersey wearers" in the seats. Get your heads out of the sand!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yak Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Don't make me have to tell the Flames fans about there team again. Fact is... if you don't count 2004, the Flames have not won a playoff round or been in the playoffs since 1989. No other team in the NHL has been so under achieving in that time. I don't know what they put in that beer at the Saddledome but it seems to brainwash the "Cloned Jersey wearers" in the seats. Get your heads out of the sand!! again, only the leafs and oilers have fans dumb enough to fill the building night after night when they have set the standard for incompetancy. W We miss the playoffs one year in the last 7(last year), had a poor start to this year and made immediate changes. Since sutter was removed they have been one of the top 3 teams in the NHL ( unfortuantely too big a hole was dug early in the year). Again, its gonna be challenging next year but we will be challenging for a playoff spot again next year. As i said , in 2012, we have a ton of cap space and can buy whatever we need. Now, lets look at the oiler philososphy. Miss the playoffs year after year, watch top UFAs pick up and leave, piss of every GM in the league with the amateurish move with Penner, amuse the whole league with the botched Hossa and Heatley negotiations. Do they fire the nimwit resposilbe? No, they promote him and allow him run the team through the Tambellini blow up doll. Lets fast forward to 3 years from now. Hall and Eberle will be RFAs. They will want big money and will have been with a team that has never even had a sniff of a playoff game. A team that is annually booking tee times every february. They will have lived in a city with very little to offer a 23 year old millionaire . KLown will still be runnnig the show . When their agents ask them where they want to resign what do you think is gonna happen? Again, edmonton is the best farm team in the NHL. Perhaps time for the Deadmonton masses to remove their heads from wherever they may be lodged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 have fans dumb enough to fill the building night after night when they have set the standard for incompetancy. The statement above, of course, may also refer to the Sutter-Sutter show; an old team bursting with no trade clauses, have now missed the playoffs 2 years in a row, with one of the the worst draft positions of a non-playoff team. Excluding 2004, have never made it past the first round since 1992-1993, including 7 years in a row of not making the playoffs! Woo-hoo! Yeah, you're setting quite the standard! Ask any knowledgeable fan - or better, GM on any team in the league right and ask them to choose between 2 teams - the Oilers or the Flames - would they rather be managing from this day forward (and wow, can I just say, for someone who accuses other teams fans living in the past, you sure have your PhD in using the past when it suits you, lol). Betcha 20+ votes for the Oilers and maximum of of 10 votes for Flames. Anyone want to dispute this? Ok, but remember to use the teams as they currently exist right now, rather than trot out the past as I and Yak have done, or rely on your crystal ball gazing (you should work in the stock market Yak). Its not even close. The Oilers may actually take 2, maybe 3 more years to become serious contenders. I am fine with that: we're similar to the Blackhawks from a few years ago. Better to miss the playoffs and then build for future cup contender strength, rather than place your team in a position to float between in a semi permanent spot between 7th and 10th in the conference. A plan the Oilers were certainly guilty of in previous years, and a model successfully adopted by the Sutters. Well done! Smitty P.S. Anyways, I'll drop it for now; round and round we go...and I should get back to work. Last word (for now) to you yak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalcal Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 With the NHL salary cap it is very difficult to build a team with UFA's. You have to draft players and build in that way. look at all the draft picks on the recent championship teams. Currently the Flames have few prospects on their farm team. The Hockey News recently ranked their prospects 27th out of 30 NHL teams. There first pick 2 years ago may be NHL ready next year. There are very few decent UFA's available this year and the draft is considered weak. Edmonton is in a tough situation as UFA's don't want to go there. Most seem to want to go to the US teams for the money and the obscurity. UFA's also want to go to a winner or a team with potential. I think that right now Edmonton has more potential and is going in a different direction than Calgary and they have a first pick overall again this year. UFA's may view Edmonton differently in the upcoming years. I can see why UFA's don't want to go there. Lots of travel ( although alot better now with team charters) and ..well it's Edmonton. Now with the new CBA, free agency comes a lot sooner than earlier years and if you have great young players you have to pay them. There's a small window of a few years when you nave star players making less than 1 million against the cap and then you have to pay them. (see Chicago). Teams are trading young superstars these days (Erik Johnson). It is tough/impossible to build dynasties now with a salary cap and with the ridiculous cash being doled out to average players (see Scott Gomez) so you have to draft well. It's a tough business....some times GM's see a chance of a championship, spend and trade prospects to get that one player that will make the difference, and when it doesn't happen they are stuck with an old team with no future (see Darryl Sutter). I'm rambling.................!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yak Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Smitty, you continue to ignore the fact that these young stars will not sign in edmonton so its irrelevant. Ask any player which city they would prefer to play in and its a landslide. Ask any player where they dont want to play and again its a landslide. Thats what i find so amusing is that all the oiler fans are clining to the dream of this new young dynasty even though everything in the past 10 years shows these players are gonna high tail it at the first oppourtunity. You mentioned the 7 consecutive years of non playoff hockey. I agree that we were as incompetent then as the oiler staff is now. The differences are that the building was damn near empty and the ownershop was forced to make mass changes. They fired all the management and brought in D sutter. That started our 6 year run in the playoffs. The oilers have sucked for the last 12 years and continue to let the guy responsible run the team . I notice you have never refuted all the botches that i have credited to KLown and co. And even though he made moves/nonmoves that made the entire organization look bad, lied to fans year after year and produced a horrible on ice prodcut on an annual basis, the fans still filled the building and Oilers ownership not only backed KLown, they promoted him. Are the Deadmonton masses loyal fans or dummies willing to take whatever scrap was thrown to them? Definietly a good GM in a real city could turn the young oiler squad into a formidable bunch. Unfortunately that is not the case. You have a poor GM representing the only city in professional hockey that makes Siberia look good. Again, in 3 years when the oil are ready to make the jump to playoff contender, Hall and Eberle will already be packing their bags. No matter how you slice it, the oilers are simply the highest paid farm ssytem in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalcal Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 The statement above, of course, may also refer to the Sutter-Sutter show; an old team bursting with no trade clauses, have now missed the playoffs 2 years in a row, with one of the the worst draft positions of a non-playoff team. Excluding 2004, have never made it past the first round since 1992-1993, including 7 years in a row of not making the playoffs! Woo-hoo! Yeah, you're setting quite the standard! Ask any knowledgeable fan - or better, GM on any team in the league right and ask them to choose between 2 teams - the Oilers or the Flames - would they rather be managing from this day forward (and wow, can I just say, for someone who accuses other teams fans living in the past, you sure have your PhD in using the past when it suits you, lol). Betcha 20+ votes for the Oilers and maximum of of 10 votes for Flames. Anyone want to dispute this? Ok, but remember to use the teams as they currently exist right now, rather than trot out the past as I and Yak have done, or rely on your crystal ball gazing (you should work in the stock market Yak). Its not even close. The Oilers may actually take 2, maybe 3 more years to become serious contenders. I am fine with that: we're similar to the Blackhawks from a few years ago. Better to miss the playoffs and then build for future cup contender strength, rather than place your team in a position to float between in a semi permanent spot between 7th and 10th in the conference. A plan the Oilers were certainly guilty of in previous years, and a model successfully adopted by the Sutters. Well done! Smitty P.S. Anyways, I'll drop it for now; round and round we go...and I should get back to work. Last word (for now) to you yak... The" bold" statement is inaccurate. If you guys are gonna trash talk...get your facts straight!! 2004. Flames won a first round and before that nothing after '89. They lost first round in '93, and 5 straight years in the playoffs, not 6 http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=calgarypost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yak Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 The" bold" statement is inaccurate. If you guys are gonna trash talk...get your facts straight!! 2004. Flames won a first round and before that nothing after '89. They lost first round in '93, and 5 straight years in the playoffs, not 6 http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=calgarypost 6 year period but only 5 years in the post season ( 2005 was a lockout) so technically it was 6 straight years. as far as facts go, they just slow a guy down. me and smitty dont need facts to argue oiler vs flame hockey . I dont have time to google when im in full rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 The" bold" statement is inaccurate. If you guys are gonna trash talk...get your facts straight!! 2004. Flames won a first round and before that nothing after '89. They lost first round in '93, and 5 straight years in the playoffs, not 6 http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=calgarypost I mis-read the article in wiki. My bad. I saw the term "semi-final", and assumed they won a round. I guess the Flames suck more than I thought... Smitty P.S. And, as I alluded to in a pm to yak, Big BowTrout's post encapsulates both teams' records since the early 90's. That pic is PERFECT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryH Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Hey Chris, is that you sitting next to Dave? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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