Videos Of Cutty Chaos

[CopperJonny]

Hi folks,

 

Was down on the Livingstone on Sunday (long weekend just passed)

 

And here are a couple of short vids i was able to grab on phone... as proof of the crap the river sees on a regular basis.

 

 

needs to end

 

 

http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w507/Jonnygogoluck/th_IMG_0553_zpsjkvm1l4a.mp4

 

and

 

http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w507/Jonnygogoluck/th_IMG_0554_zpsf6k1rqco.mp4

 

Very sad .. Wish i was closer

 

 

Edit: oh.. yeah the island they all left and drove back out too.... if you look hard you can see the profiles of several quads and side by sides.. already parked on it from east to west of the Southern lip..

[BurningChrome]

Asshats.

[jgib01]

So, is this a case of lack of knowledge (hard to believe none of the folks there knew not of what they were doing), or a lack of desire to abide by the law? I think I am going to request a face to face with my MLA, who happens to be the Minister of Environment and Parks. Would you mind Copper if I showed her these? Along with the nice collection of other examples that are amassing here on FFC.

[CopperJonny]

By all means....please share with anyone who may help put an end to this... Thank you

[monger]

.50 Cal with rubber bullets would sure be handy

[jpinkster]

I'll be sure to bring my telephoto lens in the future to try and get some clear pictures that may be able to ID these folks.

 

Do you mind if I post these up on the F&W Enforcement FaceBook page and see what they have to say about this? I still find it crazy there aren't more of them up there on the long weekends.

[RedBeard]

Wow unreal... Makes my blood boil. ****in' no words to describe that...

[RedBeard]

In an ideal world, OHV areas should not exist in the same areas that waterbodies occur.

[jpinkster]

It just still blows my mind that these areas are monitored more. They leave massive tracks and the areas they do these are clearly accessible. Why aren't the COs watching these areas like a hawk and writing up one after another? You can hear these guys a mile away, it's not like they do this in secret.

[cheeler]

Simply too much area and too few Co's. I was going to head down to that area to do some fishing next week, I'll be sure to bring the 600 mm.

 

I'd post these on every Alberta government website you can, including the MLA for the area, SRD, and the MoE. And try to send them to the CO of the area, as it's a well known spot.

[Gil]

These are the people I hate....

[jpinkster]

It'll be important to have a lengthy discussion with the local RCMP as well. If resources are scarce, maybe regular citizens can help bridge the gap.

[CopperJonny]

You know, tbh.. I don't care about individual charges.atm... Actually ... What I would like to see is.. To have the rivers protected in full up there in the minimum.. So it may become an offence to operate a motor vehicle within the high water marks of any river up there in the least.. Any mountain and or deep foothill waterbody. Any river that is home to native cutthroat and bull trout.. For starters..

 

Edit: idk... Maybe they already are.. In that case... I'm all for vigilante'isms lolol.. True story

 

Joking.. I'm not promoting any of that mess just to be clear

[jpinkster]

I think we have a responsibility to not just say "this is a problem". We also need to offer the solutions. I'd love to hear some realistic options of what could be done. Here are a few of my thoughts.

Enforcement: We have the legislation that should protect these river systems, but we lack follow through. We need more resources for F&W to police this area. Our COs need more support, and having a few more able bodies would make the world of difference. I also think we need to start making better use of technology. We use aircraft to catch speeders on many highways already, I'm sure we could use a smaller unmanned aircraft to monitor some of these high country areas. Having a drone fly up the river would not require much man power and could easily pick out some of the perpetrators.

Legislation: We need a less BS approach to these issues. The Federal grant for Hidden Creek is great, but we need to start IDing how we avoid getting to this position in the first place. The few have ruined things for the many, and unfortunately all of us are going to have to make sacrifices to restore this region. Maybe open camping throughout this area should be restricted to designated Provincial campgrounds only. Maybe we need to restrict access to large areas of the Forestry Trunk Road. Maybe we also need MASSIVE signage that states that operating an ATV through a river is unlawful and punishable by fines up to X amount. I believe that there is a degree of ignorance for many of these folks, not that it excuses their behavior.

Citizen Action: We can fill in some of the gaps that the COs can't get to. Photographing abusers of the land and making calls to RAP does make a difference. I've always believed this area suffers because it is so far out of cell range. Even when we witness something, it is nearly impossible to call it in. I wonder if a few cell tours in the area might make it easier for us to call these in. We need to work closely with enforcement officers and make sure we tell them loudly and often where the key problem areas are.

 

What are your ideas?

[adams]

It's not just the Livingston..... it's every river and creek in Alberta. I can't think of a single one I've been on that isn't scarred by ATV tracks that lead to fire-rings filled with tin-foil and empty beer cans.

 

I've taken pictures and emailed the ministry in the past and met with no action. Maybe the new NDP government will be different on environmental issues. Please send these in to the Minister and demand action. If you aren't comfortable doing that let me know and I will do it (don't want to copy your images without permission).

 

At our Trout Unlimited meeting we had what I thought was a good idea to compliment enforcement. Make up flyers clearly explaining what is unacceptable/illegal and pass them out at the various quad villages. CO's could also do the same and setup check-stops where they hand them out. Then nail any violators to the fullest extent of the law.

 

Problem is, I had a CO tell me that the law is rather vague and that ATV's are allowed to cross a water body but not traverse up and down the stream bed. That means they could cross back and forth all day. If that is true (and I don't have a written copy of the law so I don't know) then it needs to be strengthened.

 

Thanks

Adams

[jpinkster]

Problem is, I had a CO tell me that the law is rather vague and that ATV's are allowed to cross a water body but not traverse up and down the stream bed. That means they could cross back and forth all day. If that is true (and I don't have a written copy of the law so I don't know) then it needs to be strengthened.

 

Thanks

Adams

This is a really important point to consider. Can anyone give a link that shows the exact law?

[BurningChrome]

Guessing it's buried somewhere in the Alberta water act.

[bcubed]

Sounds like the COs don't even know their own laws? There is nothing in the Water Act (or similar acts) that allows for unlimited crossings in un-registered locations.

 

As per the regulation, and the Alberta website regarding it:

 

"Wheeled or tracked vehicles are not allowed on beds or shores of watercourses, wetlands or waterbodies"

 

It falls under the Public Lands Administration Regulation, and it is pretty explicit that no person shall enter a bed or shore of a river without permission from the government (e.g., a designated trail, bridge, etc). But then again, so is the 14 day limit for random camping (and a requirement to take your camping unit out for a minimum of 24 hours to break the 14 day limit..)

[Smitty]

Except somewhere I read in one of those handy dandy tipsheet brochures issued by some organization about crossing the stream at 90 degrees. So there is literature - regardless of the actual,specific legal wording in the actual legislation - printed and available to the public implying that stream crossings are legal. But I also remember the same brochure also stated that driving up and down was illegal.

 

Anyways, while completely admitting legal wording ignorance here, my impression was that stream crossings are legal on a get in and out as short a distance and as quickly as possible type of basis.

 

Smitty

[BurningChrome]

 

Anyways, while completely admitting legal wording ignorance here, my impression was that stream crossings are legal on a get in and out as short a distance and as quickly as possible type of basis.

I think you're right except that it has to be a legal fording point on a designated trail. Those spots are rocky bottoms so that there's minimal silt that gets disturbed when crossing. If you cross properly - slow and steady - then the water downstream of you should remain clear.

 

For example, this is a designated fording point in Waiparous. You can see there's no silt downstream of the vehicle and no rooster tails because he's crossing slowly. It's also the shortest distance between banks.