Calling On All You Deer Hair Experts

[sldrose]

Hi,

I've been trying to tie some Kelly Galloup SexDungeon streamers and I keep struggling with tying the head.

 

 

I can generally spin deer hair ok, but as soon as I have to tie around the lead eyes, I just can't get a complete full finish.

there are always gaps and the front of the head ends up very sparse

 

I have some commercially tied copies, and the heads on these are perfect.

 

Does anyone have any tips on how to do this properly or links to any vids that focus on how to finish the head properly?

 

I'm guessing there are times when I need to spin and other times when I just need to flair the deer hair in place.

 

I do have the collars down pretty well.

 

Any tips or tricks recommended.

 

thanks

 

 

[Vagabond]

I haven't tied Dungeons or worked with dumbbell eyes combined with spun hair,but I've spun my fair share of deer hair for Muddlers,bombers,buckbugs etc.,so I'll share my method for tying nice full heads to the hook eye.

Basically,when tying in the final lift of hair closest to the hook eye,I hold the butt end of the deer hair towards the hook bend,with the long untrimmed tips extending forward over the eye.Spin as per usual,and you end up with a sort of reverse muddler collar.Its then very easy to grasp those long tips,pull them back over the eye,pack that last lift tight against the previous lift.and get a few wraps of thread tight behind the eye,whip finish as usual,then trim to shape.

So using that same method,I'm guessing maybe you are tying in the dumbbell too soon and having to mess with trying to spin hair in and around it?

What I would suggest is using the method I described above with a bit of planning prior to tying in dumbbell.

Tie your collar as usual,and 1 or 2(?)more lifts of hair,stopping short of where you want the dumbbell to sit.For the final lift prior to tying in the dumbbell,spin in the reverse collar as above,pulling the tips back and packing the hair,then held in place with a few wraps as if finishing a muddler.When you let go of those tips after wrapping thread on the shank to hold that lift back,the tips will flare forward again.Then tie your dumbbell in as tight to that lift as you can get it,then tie in another "normal" rear facing collar in front of the dumbbell?Im thinking that should fill things in pretty good?Then just fill whatever space remains behind the hook eye with another lift or two as required,again using the reverse collar method for the final lift.Trim to shape and hope for the best??

 

Again,I've never tied a dungeon,but if it were me,that's what I'd try?

Let me know how it works out if you try it?

[Vagabond]

Hmmm....ok,I stand corrected.

Pretty cool vid on tying KGSD.....Google is your friend.

[stonefly]

Did you try using a hair stacker to pack the hair tighter ? If not try it.

[SilverDoctor]

The hair stacker is the way to go, and old pen barrel works good. Teh trick is to pack it really good in back and in front of the eyes.

[bcubed]

Your tying a streamer, don't worry about how tightly packed that head is, you're not adding the deer hair to make the thing float. Fly looks good to me

[BigFoamy]

@ seand

 

the head on that fly looks good man, I hear you though. Im the same with deer hair, regardless of whether the fly works or not its always a looks thing for me lol! Try tying the Circus Peanut, pretty much the same fly just a different head material. That video that was posted above is awesome, theres about twenty done the same way, its how I learn his patterns and the vids are awesome, I love the music and how they are presented.

[Vagabond]

X2 what BF said,the head looks great in the posted pic.I guess I misunderstood in the OP and thought the pic was of a store bought fly?If that's how your own heads are turning out,to echo bcube,your tying a streamer,not a floater,and it looks just fine from where I'm sitting,I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[sldrose]

@ seand

 

the head on that fly looks good man, I hear you though. Im the same with deer hair, regardless of whether the fly works or not its always a looks thing for me lol! Try tying the Circus Peanut, pretty much the same fly just a different head material. That video that was posted above is awesome, theres about twenty done the same way, its how I learn his patterns and the vids are awesome, I love the music and how they are presented.

 

Thanks guys,

 

yes i am using a stacker.

 

I guess, it's a LOOKS thing for me as well. I'm confident that the fly will work and catch fish.

 

It probably just annoys me more cause im looking at a store bought one which is perfect,

and i cant match it even though i keep trying different things.

 

It probably will work better given it isnt packed as tight.

 

Still though, thanks for the advice, i'll keep trying.

[sldrose]

X2 what BF said,the head looks great in the posted pic.I guess I misunderstood in the OP and thought the pic was of a store bought fly?If that's how your own heads are turning out,to echo bcube,your tying a streamer,not a floater,and it looks just fine from where I'm sitting,I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

thanks Vagabond, I think you have the right idea with the reverse collar at the eye.

i'll give that a go.

 

cheers

[BigFoamy]

 

Thanks guys,

 

yes i am using a stacker.

 

I guess, it's a LOOKS thing for me as well. I'm confident that the fly will work and catch fish.

 

It probably just annoys me more cause im looking at a store bought one which is perfect,

and i cant match it even though i keep trying different things.

 

It probably will work better given it isnt packed as tight.

 

Still though, thanks for the advice, i'll keep trying.

Your right, I tried to fish one a month or so ago and it wouldnt sink at all. I think there was to much deer hair and was packed to tight.

[Chadillac]

Foamy are you using a sinking line/sink tip and short leader? Sex dungeons are meant to be neutrally buoyant type of deal. in my experience at least.

[BigFoamy]

Foamy are you using a sinking line/sink tip and short leader? Sex dungeons are meant to be neutrally buoyant type of deal. in my experience at least.

No man i was using floating line and about a 7' leader, it wouldnt sink at all so im thinking the head was to big. Ive got the streamer line loaded onto a reel so next time out give it a go.

[Nick0Danger]

Kelly says he ties em sparse, and his flies are not designed to sink on there own, use a sink tip and it will dive when you strip the line. Dead or dying fish float and try and dive for cover but can't or struggle, he likes to imitate crippled fish. I got his book around here somewhere.

[creekside]

best tutorial by the master himself.

[BigFoamy]

Chris Helm is also a guy that can spin the deer hair, bought one of his vids awhile back and went from there. Just sayin...

[fishguide76]

best tutorial by the master himself.

awesome video ended up watching about ten more that followed up. Excellent tips to make better flies easier.