Are Bow River Trout Leader Shy?

[cgyguy]

Question: Are Bow river trout leader shy? Specifically, what is everybodys take on dry fly fishing and length of leader that serves best. Myself, i have used anything from 7 feet (my standard being 9 ft leader up to 15 feet) with the size of the fly matching the leader size (3x for size 12, 4x for 16,etc). I am interested to know what other fisherpersons opinion are as to what works best. I am speaking specifically on the Bow river fishing with dries. I know the bigger the fly then possibly the shorter the leader such as a hopper dropper rig, but I am talking about fishing dries only, and river only, not lakes. Take into account that i am talking a universal leader length that could be used all day. Do you feel or think that the Bows and Browns are leader shy? If so, how shy?

 

Any feedback is appreicated!

 

Cheers

Cgy

[Guest Wrecker]

I don't think any of the regular posters on this blog fish the dry.

 

Start a post on nymphing up summer cutties and you'll have a plethora of the "experts" offering insight.

[Sean84]

I have been finshing lots of dries on the bow as is my preference for most fly fishing. I haven't found my tippet size to matter to much fly size though does matter alot, I catch most on a fly smaller then I would think would work.

[Tungsten]

I don't think any of the regular posters on this blog fish the dry.

 

Start a post on nymphing up summer cutties and you'll have a plethora of the "experts" offering insight.

 

 

lol!

 

as far as leader goes a well drifted drag free presentation is more important then leader size.

[osprey]

I generally find that the tippet must be sinking. If it's floating fish avoid it. Especially anything over twenty inches in less than two feet of water.

[mickberry]

I don't think any of the regular posters on this blog fish the dry.

 

Start a post on nymphing up summer cutties and you'll have a plethora of the "experts" offering insight.

 

 

now that's funny

 

never had any issues with 4x on the bow, ...its all about the presentation..

 

i came from rivers that would require 5x thru 7x if you even wanted a chance.

 

i do enjoy fishing dries with heavier tippet..get those fish in fast

[DiabeticKripple]

I use 5x and have no problems. Just gotta get a drag free presentation, and match it right.

 

I find when using caddis, the body has to be the right color. Sometimes tan works, sometimes green works.

[SilverDoctor]

I don't think any of the regular posters on this blog fish the dry.

Start a post on nymphing up summer cutties and you'll have a plethora of the "experts" offering insight.

 

Love dry fly work and chasing snouts. My favorite set up is actually a Bamboo rod with 8 foot furled greased leader or high quality tapered leader to give me control then another 4 foot tippet. Tippet size really does depend on the size of fly more than an arbitrary size. I know a lot of regular posters here who dry fly fish a lot now, not all post about it. I have encountered leader shy fish but it really breaks down to stealth and presentation. A nice light line over a fish with no wake or splash. It usually takes a bit of thinking before you cast.

[robertboyce]

I like many of the previous comments....presentation seems to matter more than the tippet/leader size. I think that the main reason to go to a longer or finer tippet is good presentation. I found a book once that showed how to build a leader then "tune-it" to the particular situation and found this really helpful. It took me away from leader construction details like length and diameter and moved me more towards having a base leader and adjusting it in a systematic way 'till it casts the way I want.

 

I ran across some material by George Harvey and another piece by Charles Brooks earlier this season where both guys seemed to feel that trout were not leader shy per se (or at all) but they definitely are drag shy. I'm not saying their correct but I found it interesting how plainly they stated this point.

 

[ironfly]

I totally agree that trout in general, and bow river trout specifically, are not leader shy, but rather drag shy. A guide once told me that he had a client who usually fished for bass. The client kept setting the hook way too hard and breaking off. Coaching was tried, unsuccessfully. He chopped back the clients leader and tied on the heaviest line he could thread through the eye of the hook, and secured it with a loop knot. I tried it and found it made a big difference. Much more than finer tippets. I don't purposefully use heavy leaders, but I now use a loop knot for 90% or more of my dry fly fishing. I do use longer leaders, though. Even fishing creeks with a 3wt, my leader is seldom less than 10ft. But this is to separate the fly from the noise of the fly line splashing down.

 

When I say trout are drag shy, I don't mean the big obvious drag that we can actually see. I mean micro-drag. Watch a real bug on the water and you'll notice that it twists and turns, rotating like a wind sock on every little breath of wind. Sometimes you can see a mayfly affected by a tiny breeze you can't even feel on your skin. Flies tied on with a closed, tight knot can't do that. With a loop knot, they can wiggle a little bit more. And often enough, that's enough.

 

This is the same reason that inverted patterns work so well for picky fish. It's not that the fish is refusing because it sees the hook, otherwise you couldn't catch those same fish another day on wet flies, which you can. It's that the hook acts as a keel, and stabilizes the fly in the water. Inverted flies are free to skate about on the surface tension.

 

If you haven't, I highly recommend you try the two tactics together.

[Hawgstoppah]

I tend to use as short of a leader and as short of a cast as I can get away with. The reason: kill drag. I have fished over steadily rising individual Bow River fish for 20 minutes before actually getting a take from them, if they were leader shy they would have left on cast #3 not cast #792 which hooks them because I finally get the perfect drift in the perfect 1 inch lane he is in.

[dutchie]

Love dry fly work and chasing snouts. My favorite set up is actually a Bamboo rod with 8 foot furled greased leader or high quality tapered leader to give me control then another 4 foot tippet. Tippet size really does depend on the size of fly more than an arbitrary size. I know a lot of regular posters here who dry fly fish a lot now, not all post about it. I have encountered leader shy fish but it really breaks down to stealth and presentation. A nice light line over a fish with no wake or splash. It usually takes a bit of thinking before you cast.

 

Nice Doc,

Stop by as I got a few of Alex"s handmade s silk made furled leaders , I give ya a nice one , turns over sweet and will go with your silk fly line

[SilverDoctor]

Nice Doc,

Stop by as I got a few of Alex"s handmade s silk made furled leaders , I give ya a nice one , turns over sweet and will go with your silk fly line

 

Sweet, will do we haven't done a gab session for a while.

[TroutNV]

9ft 5x leader then add 2 feet of tippet... usually stay 5x never had a problem getting fish to eat the bugs... presentation is the most important thing like others have said

[birchy]

I tend to use as short of a leader and as short of a cast as I can get away with. The reason: kill drag. I have fished over steadily rising individual Bow River fish for 20 minutes before actually getting a take from them, if they were leader shy they would have left on cast #3 not cast #792 which hooks them because I finally get the perfect drift in the perfect 1 inch lane he is in.

 

LOL - sooo funny and true!

 

[bhurt]

I use a 12 foot 4x leader then add about 6 inches of flouro. This allows the tippet to be sitting in the film of the water thus the fishies do not see it.

 

If you do not have good line control and getting alot of drag then I suggest shorting your leader.

[sean]

I find a lighter tippet can help, especially in quieter water. Also consider using a double taper to improve your presentation if you find you are putting fish down regularly with your casting.

[Bowbiker]

Nice Doc,

Stop by as I got a few of Alex"s handmade s silk made furled leaders , I give ya a nice one , turns over sweet and will go with your silk fly line

 

Doc/ Dutchie,

I'll be heading down south soon, fishing a bamboo rod for the first time. I have a brand new silk line and two cans of Mucillen wax(grease), but no instructions to apply. Any special instructions or do I just dip my finger in and get at it??

I have made furled leaders in the past but not with silk thread. I do have a couple spools of green silk but at this stage it would be easier to buy a couple of silk leaders. Does Alex sell them or just make them for himself and his close friends?

 

Regards,

Dick Seymour

[SilverDoctor]

Doc/ Dutchie,

I'll be heading down south soon, fishing a bamboo rod for the first time. I have a brand new silk line and two cans of Mucillen wax(grease), but no instructions to apply. Any special instructions or do I just dip my finger in and get at it??

I have made furled leaders in the past but not with silk thread. I do have a couple spools of green silk but at this stage it would be easier to buy a couple of silk leaders. Does Alex sell them or just make them for himself and his close friends?

 

Regards,

Dick Seymour

 

Be sure you have the Red Tin Mucilin for silk fly lines it's the ticket. You'll find that it is handy to have loops, for line to leader connection, on both ends of a DT that way you can flip the line once it starts to sink in about 4 hours as the floatant wears off. I give the line a thin coat wipe with Mucilin (I like to use my fingers and not the pad), and then pull it through a clean rag while I'm reeling it back onto the reel. You don't leave it on in bulk but wipe it off so you have a very thin coat, do it the night before. I often double polish the Mucilin so it really works in.

 

After each day's fishing, thoroughly dry your Silk Fly Line to prevent mildew and rot, I just loop it over a towel rack or you can do it outside on a sunny day. I usually apply Mucilin right after its dry to have it ready for the next time out. Pop over if you want me to show you how it's done.

 

That's when a line dryer like this comes in handy. Give me a shout if you want to chat.

 

[agbff]

7ft 3x leader with 2-3 section of 4x-6.5x tippet.

 

I'll go as heavy as I can and go lighter until I find a combination that works with the bug and the fish... certain types of water require different tippets... fast=4x frogwater=7x.

 

Just generalizations, every run / fish is different.

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

I don't think any of the regular posters on this blog fish the dry.

 

Start a post on nymphing up summer cutties and you'll have a plethora of the "experts" offering insight.

 

 

Nice one!

[LastBoyScout]

Leader and tippet to nine or ten feet and I'll make less leader and more tippet if I feel more stealth is required. Tippet is usually the last thing I'll change & I find if I add Gink or what ever to the tippet and leader EXCEPT for the last six inch's or so it helps keep it from dragging my fly under.

[DaveJensen]

In reading the comments here, I'm beginning to see/wonder about the avg leader length. I almost never fish under 14 feet and almost never over 18 feet (on flowing waters). I suspect leader turn over speed impact, line control, mending, etc are quite likely major issues for people with shorter leaders, especially, say, if you are using a 9 foot leader on a 6+ wt rod. If you have high line speed with that set up, it is going to land pretty hard. Just something to consider prior to worrying about tippet shyness.

I ran into a nice fellow on a brown trout stream earlier in the year who had trespassed to access the stream and he had cut off Amelia & I. Not our favorite as it ended our day, but what can you do? He had been working one riser for an hour and had tried 'every fly in the box'. I asked what he'd been using and everything was tiny this, tiny that, emerging this or that, all on 5x. He recognized me and asked me what to do.

"Try a #10 ___, and for goodness sakes beef it up to 2X," I told him.

"2X??!!! No way!".

But he did tie on the bigger fly. Sure enough, he hooked the fish straight away.

And then broke the bloody tippet not 2 seconds later.

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

I never use a leader longer than 10 feet, even on tough rivers like the Mo., and I never have issues with drag.

 

I still use the divide by 4 concept for tippet, and again no issues in regards to refusals etc.

[softhackle]

I like to use fluorocarbon furled leader with a 8x tippet while fishing a SJW and Stonefly dropper....snap.....

 

Seriously, 2-3X in runoff and 5X the rest of the year....8-10 foot is fine...