The Otters Are Coming - The Otters Are Coming

[DonAndersen]

OH Crap - they are already here.

 

Folks,

 

 

In the 56 years I've fished all over western Alberta I never saw an otter till 3 years ago. Now the count is 17. So for 53 years, the graph registers "0" - in 3 years it goes to 17. And I've seeing them in a whole lot of places. Both streams and lakes. What does it mean. Well, Otters like to eat - fish mostly - trout, whitefish, suckers et al. But by in large whatever they can catch. Well, I've seen otters four different occasions on Ironside Pond reflecting, I would guess, their fondness for trout.

How many do they eat depends on their size and whether or not they are feeding young. One estimate is 5 lbs./otter/day. Am I the only one seeing them - hardly. One nice thing about living in the area is I know people who are in the bush a lot. They are also seeing them. A friend saw a group of 5 cross the Pr. Creek road, others have been seen from east of Spruceview to Buck Lake. I've been told of Otters on the Carbondale and well as some tribs to the Elk in BC. Frankly, they are everywhere and they are spreading.

What’s the concern? Well, for some folks not much but there are hot spots of concern in the Rocky area where some species of trout exist and are barely holding on. The Swan Lake lake trout is an example followed by bull trout spawning areas located in CutOff Creek or Falls creek. The concentration of bull trout or lake trout in the spawning areas makes the population vulnerable. As far as the fishermen, the over-wintering pools for cutthroat are really @ risk as well as brown trout spawning areas in both Pr. Creek and Stauffer Creek.

 

What is to be done? Well, I contacted SRD both fisheries and wildlife folks. The Fisheries folks told me that monitoring was a low priority as neither staffing or resources was available although if such became available streams would be done before lakes. The Wildlife Biologist told me that they need a management plan for the otters in our area. She went along to say “It would be completely irresponsible management to proceed with possible changes to harvest regimes & management strategies without first establishing otter population trend, potential impacts on fish populations (if any) etc.”

 

But, and this is where it gets weird. Trappers in Alberta and elsewhere have taken Otters for about 200 years without a management plan. None when the Hudson Bay Company ran the trapping, none where the Federal Govt ran trapping and none for Alberta’s Provincial Govt who have been able to increase the population of Otters w/o a plan. In fact, in Alberta, there are no management plans for any furbearer. Good thing or bad – I haven’t a clue. Looks like the Beavers and Otters are doing OK So the question: Is a management plan really necessary? Facing the fact of decreased staffing and resources within SRD and the fact that Otters seem to be doing quite well w/o a plan one is left to wonder why a plan is needed.

 

For a article on the issue written by the Wildlife Biologist, see: http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/ ... un2010.pdf

 

And what can you do? The Biologist needs to know about Otters. She’s not in the field like you and I. Lets tell her. She asks for sightings, location and pictures and send to Anne Hubbs or Chiara Feder at 403-845-8230 Anne Hubbs <Anne.Hubbs@gov.ab.ca>

 

Thank folks - we need to have something done about the infestation.

 

regards,

 

 

Don

[jimbow]

last weekend i saw a pair of what i believed to be mink on the bow river. is it possible they were otters? they were pretty small from the quick look i got at them and based on my extensive research on wikipedia they must have been mink as otters are pretty big.

 

was cool to see them although they are probably eating lots of small fish too.....

[adc]

Don, I fished one of your favourite little lakes just inside the BC border yesterday as I have many times before........Never seen an otter there until yesterday..........Big boy, about 4 feet long and eating a trout when I spooked him from the bank..........How did he get there??........Not much water in or out of there so I guess he packed a lunch and did the overland trip..........Anyway, I share your concern as they are fish eating machines----along with cormorants and white pelicans...........

[birchy]

Thanks Don. I'll keep an eye out, and a camera ready.

[bigbowtrout]

Looks like Otters were here just before Don arrived in this World.

 

the modern river otter is closely related to the otters of Europe, and did not appear in North America until about 1.9 Mya.[7] The earliest known fossil of Lontra canadensis was found in the US Midwest and is from the Irvingtonian stage (the geologic timescale that spans the period 1,800,000 to 300,000 years ago).[8] The oldest fossil record of an Old World river otter comes from the late Pliocene epoch (3.6 to 1.8 Mya).[9] The New World river otters originated from the Old World river otters after a migration across the Bering Land Bridge, which existed off and on between 1.8 million to 10,000 years ago. The otters migrated to North America and southwards again across the Panamanian Land Bridge, which formed 3 Mya.[3]

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_River_Otter

 

I thinks it's a good thing they are making a come back since they belong here. They just need to be kept in check. Lets hope the Cougar's and Bears help keep the population in order. If not man will need to step in and we know how that story ends.

[Harps]

And otters eat baby beavers...

[tgo]

last weekend i saw a pair of what i believed to be mink on the bow river. is it possible they were otters? they were pretty small from the quick look i got at them and based on my extensive research on wikipedia they must have been mink as otters are pretty big.

 

was cool to see them although they are probably eating lots of small fish too.....

 

I saw an otter last year on the Bow, downstream from Poilice.

[Giovanne]

Laughable!

 

The otters were here way before us and the stocking of ponds, potholes and dugouts with trout.

 

Eat away little otters, eat away...

 

P.S.

 

Don,

 

"infestation", c'mon now!

[AlpineJames]

And I was worried about the raccoons. hunting and fishing, more competition all the time.

[Ricinus]

Otters are moving out of their tradtional ranges and into new areas. Maybe something to do with all the human activity in their home waters? Naw, we wouldn't let something like that happen.

 

Mike

[jjthom2]

I came across a family of four otters on the lower fallentimber last year. Never saw any there (or anywhere) for 10 years until then. I have heard rumors of them being re-introduced in some areas.

 

I understand the point that our native trout evolved alongside the otters and have survival skills to keep them from being an easy meal, but my favorite streams contain non-native browns ( hopefully they evolved along side otters in europe as well).

 

Doesn't natural predation serve to strengthen and improve the gene pool? (in theory anyways - as long as we haven't screwed things up to badly with the predators that keep trout predators in check).

 

I hope the otters have a taste for brookies - maybe they can thin them out a little so we see some larger fish.

 

 

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

Otters are a fur bearer and are taken as such in Northern Alberta. There seemed to be a big hole in their range. I've sen them in Yellowstone and Grand Prairie area. This makes the hole in their range about 500 miles long. They are filling the hole.

Otters are just one more impact in our fisheries that is not managed @ this point in Central and Southern Alberta.

I don't worry too much about stocked pond lakes. What does concern me are species that are having troubles. Bull Trout in a number of places have their spawning ares protected through regulation as is the case with species like the Swan Lake lake trout. Don't think Otters can read. They will utilize concentrated food resources till the food resources are depleted. Such is the life of a predator.

Now for discussions sake say that we have about 200 Otters in Central Alberta and they eat 3 lbs/day each. So what does that mean. Lets say that the average fish weighs <3/4 lb. so each otter eats about 4 fish/day or 600 for the bunch of them. To put that in perspective, that's about 8 miles of Prairie Creek/day EVERY DAY!!!

 

And we could argue forever how many Otters there are. One trapper, I've been told, removed his beaver traps after catching a bunch of otters. This occurred in a marginal trout stream. This suggests that there is a pile of Otters out there.

 

That is the reason I'm concerned.

 

 

regards,

 

 

Don

[Harps]

Otters will eat in places that are packed with fish... they will target easy food first (suckers/ forage fish), then they will take trout they can get if it is worth the energy... then they will move on. The streams will be fine.

 

Like Freestone said, it is part of the natural system. We don't kill rainbows and cutthroat and brookies and browns because they eat other trout. Kill the suckers, kill the cormorants, kill the pelicans, kill the ospreys, kill the beavers, kill the coyotes, kill the gophers, kill the wolves, kill the bears, kill the otters... we SUCK at managing nature! Oldschool management does not work, we are the problem, not them... How many human culls have you been on?

 

The bigger issues are habitat issues and overuse and harvest.

 

It is all about balance and we don't have the knowledge or budgets to even start to think that we can manage these systems. They won't wipe out all the trout, the same way they haven't wiped out the trout in all those other great fishing places and in all those trouty places of the past.

 

We should be proud that we have stream systems in a good enough condition to support otters again!

[Harps]

... I stand corrected on one point.

Taco kills brookies.

[Bigtoad]

Saw a family (3-5) of otters on Prairie a few years ago on "The Miracle Mile". One of the bastards dove into the pool I was fishing and promptly pulled out a 14" brown and began chomping his head off across the river from me. Obviously, he wasn't aware, or chose to ignore, fishermen's etiquette! The otter wasn't much bigger than a muskrat. I'd hate to see what a big one could catch and eat. Interestingly enough, there was a brown still rising in that pool even when the otters moved into it. I'm not sure if the trout realize they should be a tad cautious around these things!

 

I sent the info into the regional biologist, which besides yelling blasphemous insults at them across the river while they have lunch (otters, not regional biologists ), is about all one can do.

 

Cheers.

[Taco]

... I stand corrected on one point.

Taco kills brookies.

 

Not yet but that changes Monday, god willin' and the crik don't rise

 

[Smitty]

Otters will eat in places that are packed with fish... they will target easy food first (suckers/ forage fish), then they will take trout they can get if it is worth the energy... then they will move on. The streams will be fine.

 

Like Freestone said, it is part of the natural system. We don't kill rainbows and cutthroat and brookies and browns because they eat other trout. Kill the suckers, kill the cormorants, kill the pelicans, kill the ospreys, kill the beavers, kill the coyotes, kill the gophers, kill the wolves, kill the bears, kill the otters... we SUCK at managing nature! Oldschool management does not work, we are the problem, not them... How many human culls have you been on?

 

The bigger issues are habitat issues and overuse and harvest.

 

It is all about balance and we don't have the knowledge or budgets to even start to think that we can manage these systems. They won't wipe out all the trout, the same way they haven't wiped out the trout in all those other great fishing places and in all those trouty places of the past.

 

We should be proud that we have stream systems in a good enough condition to support otters again!

 

A fine, balanced counter-argument. Completely agree.

 

Smitty

[bigbowtrout]

A fine, balanced counter-argument. Completely agree.

 

Smitty

 

 

x2 or +2 or whatever it is

[Hawgstoppah]

saw otters take and eat a 10+ pound rainbow trout from a small creek where I was doing some filming earlier this year. Do not underestimate the size of fish these things can and do eat. However, who was here first.... otters are not an invasive species.

[DonAndersen]

Harps,

 

There is no question that otters will impact trout streams. To what extent, I haven't a clue and frankly neither do any of the people posting on this site or for that matter our biologists. How can you measure their impact? What is for sure is that it does occur. There is no question that Otters are increasing their range. Depending on your view point this can bee seen as a good or bad thing. What is beyond question is that it is happening and it is impacting trout streams. What should be done about it will be left to folks who decide these things. What we can do however is to provide the folks who decide these things with the required information to make the choices. Sticking out heads in the sand and saying Hallelujah another Predator Species has arrived just doesn't cut it.

 

As far as old school thinking. Gotta confess you are partly right there. I'm getting sick and tired of watching ravens kill the song birds. Raven without question have increased their range at the expense of other critters who are now raven *hit. And I'm really old school when it comes to human predation. But my wife tells me that I can't solve the worlds problems by shooting them although the next little small misunderstood critter that paints my fence, breaks my windows or kicks the crap outta my truck, I'd like to hang his hide over my back fence.

 

 

 

Hawg....

 

 

As Otters are not native to the landscapes they are using now, they must by seen as invasive species. See definition below.

 

The first definition, the most used, applies to non-indigenous species, or "non-native", plants or animals that adversely affect the habitats and bioregions they invade economically, environmentally, and/or ecologically. They disrupt by dominating a region, wilderness areas, particular habitats, and/or wildland-urban interface land from loss of natural controls (i.e.: predators or herbivores).

 

 

Now the real question is: Do we inform the biologist who need the info to make intellect choices to manage any species or just push words back and forth.

 

regards,

 

 

Don

 

[Smitty]

Harps,

 

There is no question that otters will impact trout streams. To what extent, I haven't a clue and frankly neither do any of the people posting on this site or for that matter our biologists. How can you measure their impact? What is for sure is that it does occur. There is no question that Otters are increasing their range. Depending on your view point this can bee seen as a good or bad thing. What is beyond question is that it is happening and it is impacting trout streams. What should be done about it will be left to folks who decide these things. What we can do however is to provide the folks who decide these things with the required information to make the choices. Sticking out heads in the sand and saying Hallelujah another Predator Species has arrived just doesn't cut it.

 

As far as old school thinking. Gotta confess you are partly right there. I'm getting sick and tired of watching ravens kill the song birds. Raven without question have increased their range at the expense of other critters who are now raven *hit. And I'm really old school when it comes to human predation. But my wife tells me that I can't solve the worlds problems by shooting them although the next little small misunderstood critter that paints my fence, breaks my windows or kicks the crap outta my truck, I'd like to hang his hide over my back fence.

 

 

 

Hawg....

 

 

As Otters are not native to the landscapes they are using now, they must by seen as invasive species. See definition below.

 

The first definition, the most used, applies to non-indigenous species, or "non-native", plants or animals that adversely affect the habitats and bioregions they invade economically, environmentally, and/or ecologically. They disrupt by dominating a region, wilderness areas, particular habitats, and/or wildland-urban interface land from loss of natural controls (i.e.: predators or herbivores).

 

 

Now the real question is: Do we inform the biologist who need the info to make intellect choices to manage any species or just push words back and forth.

 

regards,

 

 

Don

 

Don, there is no issue with you providing any information to the biologists. Same goes for anyone else on this board who shares your views on otters. And yes, there is a "lot of talk" on the board. People rant and rave or discuss and opine. Well, of course! Its a forum. You're not compelling me to take action by admitting that you have no idea to what extent otters impact streams. Should we just blindly support an otter cull because you say so? Should we all grab the phone and start phoning biologists providing otter sightings, even though you can't substantiate the value of the information? Biologists already have a lot on their plate.

 

Bottom line is that I respect your opinion, and I deeply respect your contributions to fish and wildlife management in this province, but pushing words back and forth - and you obviously know this - is part of the process of convincing people for support on any issue. I am not convinced, but am willing to be.

 

Smitty

 

[DonAndersen]

Smitty,

 

One thing that would be really neat some day is add up all the impacts on trout. Those impacts that can be mitigated and those that can't.

Should we get all excited about poaching, logging, bad land use practices, roads, disease and not be concerned about predators. Hardly.

 

I see predation as just one more impact and in this case a new one that is presently not regulated or controlled. Should it be - well if I was a trout - I'd probably vote for some type of control.

 

Frankly, I'll go with the trout on this one.

 

And with that, I'm packing to disappear into cutthroat country.

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don

[Avalanche]

In 1980 a young fellow who lived with our family for a summer was spending most of his time in K Country babysitting a family of river otters while they were getting acclimatized. This was an attempt to re-populate the area with a native species that had been decimated by trapping and hunting. It looks like the program might finally be showing signs of success. While the concerns for the trout population are certainly valid, this is not an invasive species. They were here long before we were.

[osprey]

In 1980 a young fellow who lived with our family for a summer was spending most of his time in K Country babysitting a family of river otters while they were getting acclimatized. This was an attempt to re-populate the area with a native species that had been decimated by trapping and hunting. It looks like the program might finally be showing signs of success. While the concerns for the trout population are certainly valid, this is not an invasive species. They were here long before we were.

I remember brook trout getting stolen out of a creel by an otter on Prairie Creek in the 1970s. They were scarce then but they were native.

In England and other less wild countries than Canada, rivers are managed for optimum trout populations. It's a bit like fishing in a theme park. Predator control is a big part of that scene. I'm not anxious to see that happen here. My vote is with the trout and the otters and the ospreys, herons, loons, mergansers, mink, cormorants, pelicans, kingfishers and others that feed on them.

 

Though I still reserve the right to yell and throw rocks towards the pelicans!

[headscan]

One thing that would be really neat some day is add up all the impacts on trout. Those impacts that can be mitigated and those that can't.

Should we get all excited about poaching, logging, bad land use practices, roads, disease and not be concerned about predators. Hardly.

What, no beaver lodges left for you to dynamite so you had to find another furry mammal to shift blame onto? Maybe we should look at doing something more about the major decimators of trout (or more specifically their habitat) before going after a native predator. Totally agree with Harps on this.