Frog's Hair Tippet?

[Bigtoad]

I was out on the Red Deer tonight and the water was alive with monster browns sucking in caddis. Of course, they were being incredibly picky. I finally got one to hit my fly and fish on! It immediately went across the current and downstream and I was into my backing before I even knew what to do. I have him on for several minutes when suddenly the line just goes slack and after a very LONG reel in I realize my fly has busted off at the knot. It was 3X and I wasn't horsing it. I was pissed off. It was a freaking big fish!

 

A couple of regulars came along and they said to fool these bad boys you have to go to 5X. And so I tell them about the hog that just busted off my 3X and ask how in the world that's going to work and they assured me it would. So I grab my new 5X tippet and tie it on and go to put the fly on and snap, it breaks. I try the line and it just snaps again, and again. I peel off a bunch of line and try at a different place and it snaps like nothing as well. So I'm really pissed now.

 

So to make a long story even longer, they recommended I use Frog's Hair flourocarbon tippet because they do and have very few, if any problems with knots or tippet getting brittle. They were even kind enough to give me a few feet to try out and a fly that had worked for them before. Thanks!

 

I'm SO sick of my tippet (even really good brand tippet) breaking either at the knot or just getting rotten that I'm almost willing to try anything. I've lost some really big fish this year because of bad tippet (and I check my knots all of the time!). I've lost all confidence in any tippet I've tried. Doesn't seem to matter which brand either. I've tried lots of different kinds and have had limited success and complete failure with each of them.

 

So is Frog's Hair the answer?

 

Oh, and I did manage to get one beautiful 21 incher in just at dark. He was all dressed up with no place to go. And my tippet held!

 

Cheers.

[Ricinus]

I use Frog's Hair Regular not flourocarbon and I don't find any real difference between it and any good quality tippet. I do keep it out of the sunlight inside my vest and replace it every couple of years. I have had problems with various flouro's breaking at knots especially if it is joined to regular mono. Not having the knot wet enough when tightening can cause failures with flouro.

 

Regards Mike

[fishpro]

Try Maxima fluorocarbon, it's incredibly strong and I've never had any issues with it. Get the 200 yard spool and it's way better priced per yard than any of the high end tippet spools.

[Tungsten]

Maybe you over turn your knots,fluro is fussy.Also matching the rod to your tippet may help.

[Gaffer]

I have been using the Dia Riki Dynamic Tippet and like it quite alot. With the dynamic there is a little bit of strech that I think helps with protecting from break off with big ones. I also find it holds knots really well. I use pretty much 3x and have never had a break off that I could blame on the tippet.

 

Andrew

[whataniceguy]

Ive tried them all and do find that Frog works the best for me.

[Conor]

Frog hair is better than any other mono tippet I have used. The diameters are smaller, it is more suptle, and ties better knots. The floro is as good as any I have tried, but I haven't tried as many of those.

 

You should be able to put a lot of pressure on good 5x. It should be difficult to break with your hands, and you should be able to really lean on a big fish if you rod is not too stiff.

 

You should replace mono tippet every year-ish. It does break down. It might seem a bit expensive, but what is point spending $20 in gas to get to the river just to break fish off because you didn't want to spend $15 once a year. If you find your throwing out full spools, stop buying that diameter.

 

Buy from a store that sells a bunch of tippet. You can still get the odd bad spool, but a decent shop will let you swap it out.

[Jayhad]

I'm a Rio guy and I never really have issue with thier products. As for floro, I have used it, I don't anymore as I found it didn't make a noticable difference in my catch rates. I wouldn't use floro for dries because the floro will break the surface tension and sink fast generally pulling your fly down with it..... at least I have found that in my experience

Frog hair is nice stuff I've tried it, i think it's pretty $$$ for terminal tackle

[CDone]

I've had bad/poor results with Frog Hair (bad spools??), Use Rio a lot, especially their Flouroflex Plus tippet for streamers and nymphing.

 

Colin

[snuffy]

I've had some bad luck with tippet going rotten on me, sometimes right off the shelf. Now I make a point of testing it before I go out. There's nothing worse than getting to the river and finding that you can snap even your 2x with your fingers. Unless you're a pipefitter, even 5x should sting a bit.

[Bigtoad]

I picked up some Rio today and tested it there in the store before purchasing. The 5X felt like it should. I think I'll sneak out again near the end of the week and see if I can test it out on some hogs.

 

I'm just not sure if I'm ready to fork over a ton of $ for something that may or may not be the answer.

 

Thanks for all of the input. I'd love more if anyone has any.

 

Cheers.

[Flyfisher]

One of my fishing partners was experiencing knot failure with a spool of 4X Frog's Hair mono tippet. Fed up with the stuff, he offered it to me. I've had no problems with it. In fact it's been some of the best tippet material I've used. It's 6.2 lb. test at .007" dia. beating out the other brands I use.

 

If using good knots, tying them carefully and not ripping the lips off trout when hook setting any of the good brand name tippets perform well.

 

[Guest Sundancefisher]

The most important thing that I was taught is always wet the line prior to tightening any knot. The friction of line on line during the tightening process can greatly reduce line strength. I would do two things.

 

Tie a hook on the line with and another one without wetting. Attach line to something. Tighten up and then slowly pull both back equally. See what breaks first. Then try the same with other lines. Age, UV damage, nics etc can all impact line strength.

 

Also all the best light line in the world can't stop a knot from breaking if you hook set to hard on a large fish.

 

Cheers

 

Sun

[Bigtoad]

Thanks for all of the input. A couple of commments:

 

1. I don't think I set it too hard most of the time. The large fish I have lost this year have mostly all been on for at least a few seconds before the knot/tippet breaks.

 

2. I wet/gob on my knots like crazy. If it's about lube, I can't lube anymore without turning my dry fly to wet.

 

3. It's mostly the consistency with tippet that bugs me. I have 3X Orvis that I really like and sometimes I would straighten out a hook if it was snagged before the line would break. However, periodically it would break as I am checking my knot right after I tied it. I try to be very consistent with how I tie knots so that I can try to rule that out as a factor. Don't even get me started about the Climax (ironic really, more like "premature breakage before climax") and Scientific anglers tippet and consistency!

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

[Taco]

What knots you usin' to tie leader to tippet and tippet to fly BT?

 

 

[Bigtoad]

What knots you usin' to tie leader to tippet and tippet to fly BT?

 

I tie a surgeon's knot from leader/tippet/tippet where you make the loop with both tippet and leader and then pass the tippet and butt end of leader through the loop twice.

 

I tie just a simple clinch knot or improved clinch knot from tippet to fly. I believe I had tied an improved clinch knot and tested it pretty well before using when I lost the big brown from the story above. I use lots of twists, gob on it like crazy, and check each knot before I try casting with it. It's just amazing to me how many times the knot will break when I'm testing it out or it passes my pull test and then pops off on a fish without due stress. It's a conundrum wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in a slice of bacon. Mmmmmm bacon.....

 

What am I doing wrong!?!?!?!?

 

Cheers.

[snuffy]

I tie a surgeon's knot from leader/tippet/tippet where you make the loop with both tippet and leader and then pass the tippet and butt end of leader through the loop twice.

 

I tie just a simple clinch knot or improved clinch knot from tippet to fly. I believe I had tied an improved clinch knot and tested it pretty well before using when I lost the big brown from the story above. I use lots of twists, gob on it like crazy, and check each knot before I try casting with it. It's just amazing to me how many times the knot will break when I'm testing it out or it passes my pull test and then pops off on a fish without due stress. It's a conundrum wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in a slice of bacon. Mmmmmm bacon.....

 

What am I doing wrong!?!?!?!?

 

Cheers.

 

Try switching your surgeon's knot from a double to a triple. It works better for all but the thickest of troutly diameters. Also, there's a limit on how much the lines can differ in diameter. So if you're cheap on leaders, you'll need a section of 2X to bridge to your 4/5X.

 

For your clinch knot (always use the improved version), it sounds like you're using too many twists. I use 3 down to 4x and 4 on 5/6x. More than that and it becomes next to impossible to pull the knot tight. Loose knots will slip and snap.

[Taco]

No knot, despite claims, will hold 100 % of rated line strength. A properly tied and lubricated 5 turn improved cinch should hold 80-90% but if you have an "Ooops!" or a "WTF did that loop go to??" as I often do, can drop the knot strength down to as low as 60%. With my beat to hell hands and fingers I've recently switched to using a 5 turn uni knot to tie flies to tippet. This is after 45 yrs of usin' the improved cinch. It's about the same strength as the IC and a tad easier for me to tie. I use a 5 turn duncan loop for streamers and soft hacks anyway and the uni is similar except you throw the loop in the tag not the running line.

 

One thing about knots... practice throwing them @ home until you're proficient, I use a chunk of old fly line. Standin' in the stream with risin' fish all around you is no time to try and remember a new to you knot.

[Brunsie]

I use a double surgeon's knot for all of my leader to tippet connections.

To make this knot stronger I snug it up pulling on all 4 ends then tighten it using the tags before pulling on the main line.

Most knots, includung the cinch knot hold better if tightened using the tag.

BK

[Taco]

x2

[Din]

Try switching your surgeon's knot from a double to a triple. It works better for all but the thickest of troutly diameters. Also, there's a limit on how much the lines can differ in diameter. So if you're cheap on leaders, you'll need a section of 2X to bridge to your 4/5X.

 

For your clinch knot (always use the improved version), it sounds like you're using too many twists. I use 3 down to 4x and 4 on 5/6x. More than that and it becomes next to impossible to pull the knot tight. Loose knots will slip and snap.

 

With frog hair an improved clinch doesn't work as well as the standard clinch in my testing. All other brands of tippet I use an improved but not frog hair.

[Tungsten]

Never had a problem with a normal clinch.I don't like the improved one as it leaves the tag end pointing forward and just catches more crap from the river.

 

Like others 5-6 twists lube well and tighten by pulling the tag end.

 

As far as line to tippet, double uni works for me 4 turns on each side.Real easy knot that can be tied by feel,works good at night.Same goes for the single uni for the fly.

[Christofficer]

It's been a long time since I've broken a fish off. I can't help to think it's because of the knot more than the line. The strongest knots are hands down the palomar or trilene knots. The clinch knot is inferior to the trilene knot as the trilene knot doubles the line through the eye. I think this is critical in a really good knot. As for the palomar, it's easier to tie, and it never slips no matter what.

 

A trilene knot is a clinch knot with the line doubled through the eye, and the tag passed through the double formed loop. I use 4 twists for mono and 5 twists for flourocarbon.

 

The palomar is basically a loop created at the end of your tippet, with the loop passed through the eye, with a simple overhand knot tied and the formed loop passed over back around the hook. Very easy and quick tie. Youtube them if you wanna try em out.

[Gaffer]

It's been a long time since I've broken a fish off. I can't help to think it's because of the knot more than the line. The strongest knots are hands down the palomar or trilene knots. The clinch knot is inferior to the trilene knot as the trilene knot doubles the line through the eye. I think this is critical in a really good knot. As for the palomar, it's easier to tie, and it never slips no matter what.

 

A trilene knot is a clinch knot with the line doubled through the eye, and the tag passed through the double formed loop. I use 4 twists for mono and 5 twists for flourocarbon.

 

The palomar is basically a loop created at the end of your tippet, with the loop passed through the eye, with a simple overhand knot tied and the formed loop passed over back around the hook. Very easy and quick tie. Youtube them if you wanna try em out.

 

I have always been under the impression that the clich was stronger than the palomar, I have never tied the trilene. I have heck of a time tieing tha palomar for some reason.

 

I prefer to use the regular clinch with 7 turns (I dont know what 7, that is just what I do) over the improved as I have been tying it forever and never lost a fish to it. Personally I give most of my knots a little lick just to make them tie smother.

 

I'll have to look at the trilene.

 

For me it boils down to what works and what I can tie the fastest.

 

Andrew

[Bigtoad]

It's been a long time since I've broken a fish off.

 

Maybe you should try catching bigger fish?

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely check out those 2 knots.

 

I hit up the Red Deer again last night with a friend of mine. The fish weren't rising like the were the other night and the water was at least 2 feet higher than several days ago. However, I did manage to land both fish that I tagged in the 18-20 inch range. I had bought new Rio mono tippet in 1X, 3X and 5X after my last misfortune and was hoping it would do the trick so that I wouldn't have to fork over the $ for frog's hair.

 

I was using 5X and was able to still put lots of pressure on the fish and landed them both quite quickly. I was using improved clinch and felt very confident in the line. I'm hoping this is a good sign of things to come.

 

Cheers.