Hatch Reels

[ÜberFly]

Come on birchy, that's all a bunch of folly seeing that it's from some useless internet site!! Couldn't you have posted something with some "real world" value!! Sheesh!!

 

 

http://www.flyfishohio.com/a_question_of_balance.htm

 

[agbff]

Well like most things "fly- fishing," there is no right or wrong way to do anything.

Its like fast and slow action rods, everyone has a personal preference or what is most comfortable for them to cast.

Same same with reels... People like em light to make the rod seem slow or heavier to make the rod tip seem quicker, as stated in Birchy's article.

You can also use lead wire to fine tune the weight of your set up, so no, you don't have to go into the fly shop and test the balance of the set up with half the line out... The finger on the cork is to get a general idea.

I used to fish a CLW on my spey rod and that is a super light reel weighing in at 191 g's, and picked up and Evotec which weighs 225g's,

I personally like the extra weight... the rod isn't totally balanced with the reel draggin it down a little, but it feels good to me.

Anything else to add Canadensis? You seem to have tons of great input...

 

 

[Tungsten]

Forget about the emoticons and explain it then...

 

Folks often comment on how their rod "balances" yet the last time I cast a fly rod all the line was not in the reel. I do not hold it by one finger at the front of the cork where this balance point is supposed to be either.

 

Take your 8 wt or what ever tip heavy rod you have and go fish it for a day with a very light reel on it.Feels funny and will make your wrist sore after a few hours.

 

[canadensis]

Come on birchy, that's all a bunch of folly seeing that it's from some useless internet site!! Couldn't you have posted something with some "real world" value!! Sheesh!!

 

I like your use of "sheesh", but you spelled it wrong.

 

Don't be such an uberschwanz, I asked the question and some posted answers, things I was not aware of. Now run along dipSheisse.

 

Thanks to those who explained it.

[ÜberFly]

How's that?! Please explain!?

 

sheesh (s̸hēs̸h)

interjection

used variously to express disbelief, surprise, annoyance, etc.

 

So it's ok when others ask questions and you ride their ass, eh!!

 

Sheesh!!

 

I like your use of "sheesh", but you spelled it wrong.

[canadensis]

So it's ok when others ask questions and you ride their ass, eh!!

 

Sheesh!!

 

I have never ridden said ass when someone asks a question. Check the records.

[monger]

So if a light reel on a heavy rod makes your wrist sore...what are the effects of a heavy reel on a lighter rod? (Say a 9/10 reel on a 6wt?)

[Taco]

Oh goody, a pissin' contest on the internets... can I watch??

 

 

 

[canadensis]

From my narrow point of view the amount of fly line that you have in the air at any given time is never constant negating any attempt of balancing the rod.

 

 

 

 

[Tungsten]

So if a light reel on a heavy rod makes your wrist sore...what are the effects of a heavy reel on a lighter rod? (Say a 9/10 reel on a 6wt?)

 

I found i prefer butt heavy to tip heavy.

 

I have a 6wt 10' very tip heavy rod.I have a 8-9 wt reel on it that is still to light.I found the constant pull of the tip on your wrist makes it uncomfortable.Once i added some weight to the reel it feels better and doesn't pull down anymore.

I'm no pro,i just no what feels right.

[Tungsten]

From my narrow point of view the amount of fly line that you have in the air at any given time is never constant negating any attempt of balancing the rod.

 

Half your line weighs what 10 grams say 5wt WF, that's not gonna change the balance that much.

[bigbowtrout]

A few years back I bought a nice 3wt rod and the shop only had one 3wt reel and it was a nice reel but I never tested the whole set up I just bought it. Lesson learned as the reel was way to heavy and after letting this sweet little rod just sit without use for years I finally bought a much lighter reel and now it's my go to set up. Just that simple and no deep science for me. It was just all about how the set up felt for me and nothing else.

 

 

 

 

http://www.flyfishohio.com/a_question_of_b...%20Part%202.htm

[birchy]

I was starting to type a reply thinking that the weight of the fly line will either by on the reel or on the front of the rod (therefore no longer on the reel) when you're casting.. IE - when the line is on the reel, it's heavier and the front of the rod is lighter, BUT when you're casting the front of the rod is heavier, but now the reel is lighter.. so the balance would stay constant the whole time..

 

But then I started to second guess myself because I would imagine that with the inertia of the backcast/forward cast, OR while the line is in the water, that most of the weight of the line wouldn't actually be on the rod anymore. I don't know.. I'm too tired to think about it hard enough. 'I smell burnt toast!'

[headscan]

I found i prefer butt heavy to tip heavy.

That's what she.....uh, probably didn't say actually. Never mind.

[bhurt]

So if a light reel on a heavy rod makes your wrist sore...what are the effects of a heavy reel on a lighter rod? (Say a 9/10 reel on a 6wt?)

 

I actually use a Hatch 9wt reel on my 12 foot 6wt Goran Andersonl.

 

Now a little background info about myself, after playing numerous years of football my casting should is absoultly garbage (ask some of my fishin friends they have actually heared me dislocating my shoulder while setting a hook on a single hand rod) so to put it plainly my should is garbage and gets sore very quickly.

 

I hardly notice the weight of my reel on my shoulder (even though it is big on my 6wt rod) the big reason I do not feel the weight of my reel is cause when I am spey casting I do not use my shoulders for the casting as the end of the rod is roughly at hip level and my top hand is roughly about level with my chest and I use my hips and body to make the cast with little use of the shoulder.

 

I think as it has been stated that it comes down to personal preference, if your casts are nice and you are catching fish then does the weight of the reel really matter. I think some people's problems when it comes down to fishing they are worrying about weather there equipment is correct or weather they are doing it correctly thus they are always fighting their cast or the equpiment they are using and taking away from the catching part. I know when I am not in the groove then I don't catch *hit and it usally comes down to me fighting something, when I am not fighting anything then I catch fish.

 

In the end I say use what you want to use and give the finger wave to the rest that seem like they have to tell YOU WHAT TO US. (Please note this is a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular)

[ÜberFly]

Balderdash! What was last weeks hijack with the whole "google" thing?! Either way your always chiming in with some cheeky/snarky comment... Oh I forgot.. You can't take it, only dish it (we've established that already).

 

And for the record, you never did explain how I misspelled "Sheesh"

 

P

 

I have never ridden said ass when someone asks a question. Check the records.

[Pipestoneflyguy]

Interesting conversation...within "my" perception I seem to read loading on the backcast a little more accurately with a lighter reel than a heavy, especially at lower weight set ups. That said, have one particular 5wt set up that has an early model large arbour that is quite heavy compared to my higher end reels, it takes a few ghost casts to get used to the subtle change in balance but after about a minute of casting I find I naturally adapt and, in general, casting does not suffer for the change in weight/balance.

 

From a physics point of view one aspect not exhaustively discussed here, which would have a huge impact on rod balance is actual casting technique - an angler using a very traditional cast will have a single fulcrum very close to the elbow, furthered by a firm grip and locked-down wrist the effect from the weight of the reel would almost be completely negated at least in terms of effect relating to countering force from the line while adding signifigant momentem to the rod motion itself, thus offering consistant, predictable and readable rod loading. alternatively a caster with a sloppy wrist motion has a fulcrum slightly behind, at, or even ahead of the reel. Thus causing a a counter weight effect to the force of the line, this would be remarkably inconsistant to measure as having two fulcrums (wrist and elbow) would result in a dynamic center of gravity within a casting motion. Throw in other fulcrums (shoulder hips knees) and force factors that also contribute, or affect rod balance (such as amount of line out) and the whole thing becomes remarkably complicated (more burnt toast LOL) - I watched a number of folks casting on the Bow in Calgary two weeks ago and the way that anglers keep their tips and line in the casting plane varied greatly from shoulder and elbow to full body motion, thus in reality, I suspect alot of anglers inadvertantly have a dynamic center of gravity which rarely is aligned on top of the rod let alone at a single or dual fulcrum or in the vertical plane of the rod motion itself.

 

If anything can be taken from my unqualified rambling, and technical proficiency is something important to you then I suggest having someone look at your cast and identify any specific technical errors affecting center of gravity and fulcrum issues before putting too much effort into analyzing the weight of your components. If catching fish and enjoying yourself is your focus, than be thankful you have found something that works, and is comfortable for your casting personality.

[theboy]

The lighter the better imop....less fatigue by the end of the day, and more sesitive feel throughout the rod lets you know how your doing by feel.

[canadensis]

Balderdash! What was last weeks hijack with the whole "google" thing?! Either way your always chiming in with some cheeky/snarky comment... Oh I forgot.. You can't take it, only dish it (we've established that already).

 

And for the record, you never did explain how I misspelled "Sheesh"

 

P

 

You have a comprehension problem. The "let me google that for you" was a joke, hence other people now use that link. I had to explain it then, and now here again, both times to you! Did your mother drop you on your head as a child?

 

 

[ÜberFly]

Anyway... Back to the topic at hand...

 

So how is it that a particular rod is known to be "tip heavy" ?! Is it related to casting style (fulcrum point, etc.) and/or form... Or are there rods that are known to be tip heavy vs. butt heavy, etc... If so, why isn't there info available for specific reel recos for a particular rod (manufactures reco specific lines)? Also, to further complicate this discussion... Someone like Tungsten (who is 6'6") vs. myself (who is 5'10") is going to experience casting totally differently (from a biomechanics perspective - trying to control for casting style/form - if possible). So is it more "preferenece" or rod design that determines "tip heaviness", etc. and therefore balance?

 

I guess this is a perfect question for Jack or Don (I'm sure a few others, as well).

 

P

[jack]

From my perspective, "tip heavy" is something to be avoided at all costs. It certainly is not "designed" in any rod that I deal with. In fact, I am always looking for ways to not make one tip heavy. Essentially "tip heavy" is derived from the attempt to design/build a moderate action graphite rod with a certain indestructible quality. The composition involves the lower(less brittle, but heavier) IM graphites and a higher resin content. This usually happens in the higher line weight rods where the weight is expected and counter-balance with larger reels and lines. There is a way to create a moderate, progressive loading/releasing rod with lower IM graphite and less weight, but that process is proprietary.

j